[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

By kids THM means any of the 52% or any of the leave campaigners.

At least that's my interpretation.

[url= http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-davos-meeting-hsbc-idUKKBN1520SO ]HSBC and UBS have said they are going to move around a 1,000 jobs each from London to Paris after Brexit[/url]

The story is [url=

on Facebook[/url] at the moment and reading what people say about it is hilarious and depressing in equal measures. People complaining about the banks not showing loyalty or being "traitors" 😯 And that they will close their current accounts 🙄

the grown ups know the danger of a lose:lose situation

Do we have any? What are the signs?

And that they will close their current accounts

yeah there was a lot of that on the bbc comments (which have become hard to wade through the semi-literate brexie rants since the torygraph dropped disqus)

Loyalty? UBS is a swiss bank!! Gulliver (HSBC) will be retired by then.

Love the comments from banks "we could move" results in headlines "banks to move"

We have some mol and so do the Europeans most importantly Barnier and Merkel

I see Maybot is still hitting the meaningless soundbites out of the park at Davos...

"Change in order to conserve is more important than ever in today's geo-political environemnt, it's the principle that guides me

Any company that was planning to expand or relocate will use the Brexit scenario as a justification. It's made layoffs far easier to deal with. HSBC are still probably smarting with being caught money laundering. TBH, it makes sense to hedge your bets a bit by having sufficient EU staffing to deal with what you expect to happen post-Brexit.

Edit. Shareholders will want to see that bases are covered. But as said above, the press love to make it sound as though everyone is leaving the UK because of Brexit.

@Kimbers, I still prefer the Force, it is far more diverse than principal

As an HSBC shareholder and customer, I certainly hope that they are considering options to offset the potential/likely end of the single passport. Relying too much on "equivalence" would be dangerous IMO.

will use the Brexit scenario as a justification

Get ready for this… Brexit won't "cause" any companies to relocate, or downsize, or cut wages, or put up prices, or make portion sizes smaller…. It'll just be a handy excuse (say people who've never run a business that trades beyond the UK's borders).

[quote=GrahamS ]HSBC and UBS have said they are going to move around a 1,000 jobs each from London to Paris after Brexit
The story is trending on Facebook at the moment and reading what people say about it is hilarious and depressing in equal measures. People complaining about the banks not showing loyalty or being "traitors" And that they will close their current accounts

Little Englander's raging that the HONG KONG and SHANGHAI Banking Corporation is moving jobs to Paris 😆

Get ready for this… Brexit won't "cause" any companies to relocate, or downsize, or cut wages, or put up prices, or make portion sizes smaller…. It'll just be a handy excuse (say people who've never run a business that trades beyond the UK's borders).

Isn't denial one of the stages of regret?

Makes sense for banks to [b]consider / plan[/b] to move European focused banking to Europe [b]in the event[/b] they don't have full and [b]free[/b] access to Europe. London will remain HSBC global HQ so the high paid jobs will remain here. Employer amd employee taxes are sky high in France, any job over €1m attracts 66% employer tax in France vs 12.8% in UK. Also ironic that all the banker bashers now seem worried about losing banking jobs 🙂 These 2000 jobs are a drop in the Ocean vs the multiple 100's thousands lost in last 8 years. UK banks have been failing over themselves to exit European business in last 5 years as its so unprofitable

. Also ironic that all the banker bashers now seem worried about losing banking jobs

These 2000 jobs are a drop in the Ocean vs the multiple 100's thousands lost in last 8 years.

Jamba, what are US banks likely to do as regards their London operations now?

Jamba, what have European (and I include UK) banks being doing about their US wealth management divisions in recent years?

Keep the M&A teams here as lots of cheap assets (in £ terms) for foreigners to buy

Makes sense for banks to consider / plan to move European focused banking to Europe in the event they don't have full and free access to Europe.

Of course it does, yes. Tell that to your fellow Leavers who are frothing at the mouth over this "treachery" 🙄

Also ironic that all the banker bashers now seem worried about losing banking job

I'd say a good number of the "banker bashers" are the anti-globalist anti-establishment Leave voters, no?

See FB and other comments: lots of stuff about "we bailed them out and this is how they repay us" or "force the traitors to repay all their bail out money"

2000 jobs are a drop in the Ocean

Absolutely - it's not like the banking sector is important to the UK economy or anything. Financial Services are only like, what, 12% of our GDP and a similar percent of our annual tax receipts.

Barclays is one of the banks who has been closing heavily loss making European operations

However, the chief executive of Barclays Jes Staley told Radio 4's Today programme: "I don't believe that the European financial centre will leave the City of London.

"I think the UK will continue to be the financial lungs for Europe. We may have to move certain activities... but I think it's going to be at the margin and will be manageable."

So the banking sector is finished? Best to get rid of the dregs?
How does getting rid of jobs from the UK make the UK better? I thought Brexit would make the UK somewhere everyone wanted to be. You know your logic seems impeccable some days

Also ironic that all the banker bashers now seem worried about losing banking job

You said it yourself. The highest-paid jobs - you know, the people who were probably causal in the economic crash - will be safe. It's the ones at the bottom who will be hit hardest. Again.

The question stands Jamby

Good luck with that, so do most of the ones I've asked.

and which group voted leave cougs?

The question stands Jamby

Are you new round here?

Good luck with that, so do most of the ones I've asked.

and which group voted leave cougs?

Group? Oh, of those in the banking profession you mean? I expect some voted leave and some voted remain, like any other demographic. What that split was I've absolutely no idea beyond lazy generalisations, have you?

I think the UK/US piece will stay together. I wonder if the US will ensure/play a part in ensuring UK gets a good Brexit deal? Obviously at a cost. Probably a new Trump London HQ or something. I was suspicious of the Mexico border tax announcement to Eu being close to the announcements from May about Brexit and a US trade deal (BJ). [url= http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-bmw-idUKKBN14Z0XY ]Source[/url]

I reckon this might go away if Germany toes a fair line with the UK. Not forgetting that a large chunk of the UK travel is German owned and, we buy a lot of their cars.

This is old but very relevant; https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/12/rail-privatisation-dutch-and-german-companies-took-uk-for-ride

"The latest example last week saw Abellio, a unit of the Dutch national rail operator, win the 10-year ScotRail franchise for running train services in Scotland. Arriva, which is owned by Germany’s Deutsche Bahn, runs five UK rail contracts, including CrossCountry and Arriva Trains Wales, while Keolis, controlled by the French state rail company SNCF, is the joint operator of four franchises, including Southeastern and London Midland. The latter is also shortlisted for the London-to-Edinburgh east coast route in a joint bid with SNCF-backed Eurostar.

For a snapshot of how a public asset has inadvertently transferred profit to taxpayers elsewhere, it is worth looking at a review of the industry’s 2013 finances published by the Office of Rail Regulation. Northern Rail, a joint venture between Serco and Abellio, paid £36m in dividends to its owners after receiving government subsidies totalling £713m. Transpennine returned £21m in dividends to owners FirstGroup and Keolis, having received £52m from the government, which also paid £145m in track grants."

well let's start with those in professional occupations?

A: Second biggest Remainers (after those with degrees)

Yes it's an interesting demonstration of the efficiency of nationalised public transport, just a shame it's not owned by our nation.

well let's start with those in professional occupations?

A: Second biggest Remainers (after those with degrees)

Assuming banking followed the same trend, sure. This is what I was alluding to with "generalisations" - it's a plausible scenario, likely even, but for an individual employment sector I'm guessing at best.

"Educated people voted remain" isn't exactly news. So you're saying those who voted remain are contemplating taking the money and running before the arse falls out of the economy any further, whereas those who voted leave will be on the sticky end. Have I completely misunderstood what you're getting at here?

My point is that if the EU/UK split is not friendly, these contracts for planes, trains, cars could easily go to the US and Asian businesses, that would hurt major players in the EU. I think we will get a good deal which is why May is being quite bullish

I think we will get a good deal which is why May is being quite bullish

It is in everyone interest to get a good deal, UK and Europe.

Possible Cougs - but doesnt matter - i was just suggesting that sadly many/some/a few of those who voted to Leave are (among) those who are likely to be hit hardest as a result.

A sad irony - nothing more.

In contrast the professionals and educated - to use sweeping generalisations! - generally understood what is good for them.

cchris2lou - Member
It is in everyone interest to get a good deal, UK and Europe.

My point is that if the EU/UK split is not friendly, these contracts for planes, trains, cars could easily go to the US and Asian businesses, that would hurt major players in the EU.

Who knows, they could even by run by the government and return a profit for the taxpayer

My point is that if the EU/UK split is not friendly, these contracts for planes, trains, cars could easily go to the US and Asian businesses, that would hurt major players in the EU. I think we will get a good deal which is why May is being quite bullish

First of all the 2 years of A50 negotiations arent about trade, they are about settling the divorce bill, May will have to balance paying what teh EU feel we owe with keeping our xenophobic right wing press happy - 😯
That alone is going to be an incredibly tough job

after all that we have to get 27 nations to agree a trade deal that benfits us all

May wants a new trade deal by 2019 after that

“no deal would be better than a bad deal”

with our huge disadvantages of lack of trade negotiators and lawyers and Johnson, Farage and Gove running around the world trying to their best to offend as many Europeans as possible, Maybot is looking naive rather than bullish

No it's not particularly in the EU's interests for the UK to get a good deal. It's in their interests for the EU to get a good deal politically speaking and a key component of that is to discourage anyone else from leaving [i]even if if costs them in purely economic terms[/i]...

i was just suggesting that sadly many/some/a few of those who voted to Leave are (among) those who are likely to be hit hardest as a result

I sincerely hope so.

Though what the dimwits will do when they realise that they still haven't got a job/council house/hospital bed is another question. Perhaps at that point endlessly repeating "brexit means brexit" and calling the French Nazis will be seen as an electoral liability (though I wouldn't put it past the British voter to still not get a clue - again).

First of all the 2 years of A50 negotiations arent about trade,

😯

They have had me fooled then.

i was just suggesting that sadly many/some/a few of those who voted to Leave are (among) those who are likely to be hit hardest as a result.

A sad irony - nothing more.

Ah right, I'm with you now. Yes, no arguments here. "Project Fear," hmm.

I sincerely hope so.

Ouch

Though what the dimwits will do when they realise that they still haven't got a job/council house/hospital bed is another question.

Ask the rest of us to pay higher taxes?

It's in their interests for the EU to get a good deal politically speaking and a key component of that is to discourage anyone else from leaving even if if costs them in purely economic terms...

apparently so, thm. The process of leaving is not the arrangement of a new trade deal, but rather the untying of the numerous entanglements that we currently have. Such as the "negotiating capital" of the thousands of multinational families, EU imigrants and UK expats, the new hard border in Ireland, and whether we can fly planes, among other things.

Not project fear just common sense/law of unintended consequences

- anyway, I think that we are slightly misunderstanding each other, so will park this one cougs.

mike, I think it's clear enough who has all the cards, but it's also worth pointing out that the EU can't really afford to be generous to us even if they thought it was economically advantageous for them.