Because putting politics above prosperity is never a smart choice.

Errmmmm - was he talking to a mirror? you really couldn't make this up

Davis repeated Theresa May’s view that Britain was leaving the EU but not the European Union.

The key pillar of this will be a deep and comprehensive free trade agreement – the scope of which should beyond any the EU has agreed before.”

How many months of being told no does dave need to grasp that we wont get any "special deal. We can be in the EU or out but we cannot be in for trade and out for everything else and get a special deal

This must be really bad as even THM has not been on yet to defend the indefensible

[url= https://amp.ft.com/content/3f9b3daa-ca1b-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e ]What has the EU ever done for British business or jobs?[/url]

Kind of puts paid to the notion that the EU are being deliberately difficult towards the UK, eh?

German journalist: “...why are you leaving?”

Exactly the correct response to a long ramble about the need for deep and lasting ties and free trade between friends and neighbours.

No strategy, no leadership - it's desperate stuff. The EU must be agog at just how diminished we are.

How many months of being told no does dave need to grasp that we wont get any "special deal. We can be in the EU or out but we cannot be in for trade and out for everything else and get a special deal

Isn't being in the EEA, but not in the EU the same as being in for trade and out for everything else? If so, other countries are in exactly that position. (Which does't mean the UK will be able to.)

I can't tell if Davis is just trying to wind up the EU on purpose now, in the hours of fixing a no deal, that's not his fault

putting politics above prosperity is never a smart choice.'

That should be the Tory party's epitaph !

Isn't being in the EEA, but not in the EU the same as being in for trade and out for everything else? If so, other countries are in exactly that position. (Which does't mean the UK will be able to.)

If I recall correctly, the countries that do that pay handsomly for their access. Which our idiots, beholden as they are to the papers and swivel eyed loons, are unwilling to accept.

Isn't being in the EEA, but not in the EU the same as being in for trade and out for everything else?

No basically and pretty sure the Brexit crew ruled it out as they want bespoke - which you can read as in for trade out fore everything else or as the EU term it cake and eat it

putting politics above prosperity is never a smart choice

This phrase will come back to haunt the Tories and Davis.

#strongandstable

Isn't being in the EEA, but not in the EU the same as being in for trade and out for everything else? If so, other countries are in exactly that position. (Which does't mean the UK will be able to.)

If I recall correctly, the countries that do that pay handsomly for their access.

If you can pay to do it it must be possible.

So effectively we would end up paying many billions for the right to curb EU migration, even assuming free movement wasn't part of the trading package.

Would end up cheaper to just meet EU residents at the airport and offer them a grand to piss off.

Outofbreath, why do you seem to think that EFTA countries don't use a shared court, or follow EEA/EU rules? And when (since the referendum not before) have you heard any government minister suggest we will accept a shared court and stick to EEA/EU rules?

Sorry, you may be trying to point out that a compromise position is possible, which is a fair point.

This phrase will come back to haunt the Tories and Davis.

#strongandstable

Brexit, politics above prosperity. 😉

If you can pay to do it it must be possible.

Isn't being in the EEA, but not in the EU the same as being in for trade and out for everything else?

We will just swap our direct budget contributions and a limited say in whole the thing runs for a roughly equivalent annual fee and no say. Once our current liabilities to the EU are settled. Plus be subject to EU regulation in terms of market access.

How does that fit on the side of a bus?

We would lose our rebate so we would pay more to have less influence

you may be trying to point out that a compromise position is possible, which is a fair point.

outofbreath - Member
Isn't being in the EEA, but not in the EU the same as being in for trade and out for everything else? If so, other countries are in exactly that position. (Which does't mean the UK will be able to.)

If I recall correctly, the countries that do that pay handsomly for their access.
If you can pay to do it it must be possible.

yep

norway pays more per head than we do now to access EEA

but that also means ECJ jurisdiction, which the Maybot has ruled out as one of her many ways of handicapping the UK in the negotiations

[img] [/img]

do it

No.

It's amazing how selective quoting can make arguments easy.

Thought this was funny:
[img] [/img]

The Irish catch 22 situation is still clear and present...

The Irish Prime Minister has set Theresa May a one-month deadline to explain how she will avoid a damaging hard border with Northern Ireland, or the EU will block Brexit trade talks.

Leo Varadkar dismissed Ms May’s claim that negotiations on the future land border are “almost there” as “wishful thinking”, at a breakfast meeting.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-irish-prime-minister-leo-varadkar-ireland-border-clarity-theresa-may-trade-talks-block-a8060046.html ]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-irish-prime-minister-leo-varadkar-ireland-border-clarity-theresa-may-trade-talks-block-a8060046.html[/url]

The Irish catch 22 situation is still clear and present...

I think the tory brexit idiots probably just assume that we'll absorb Ireland back into the UK. After all, they can't afford not to have us buying their potatoes, just like how Germany, France and Italy can't afford to not sell us cars, cheese and wine.

*FFS after 300 pages I broke my brexit thread boycott.

Davies now blaming Germany and France for lack of progress. Nothing to do with the fact that the UK has not even come close to meeting the EUs needs. Anyway I thought Germany was so desperate to sell us their cars that they would immediately sign a trade deal favourable to us? We were repeatedly told this.

Also the idea that somehow bankers will be allowed free movement but not for others and non of the other 4 freedoms will apply. This is simple nonsense.

FFS after 300 pages I broke my brexit thread boycott.

DP

FFS after 300 pages I broke my brexit thread boycott.

The Hubris of the brexiters is stunning they would blame the moon and the stick if they could not get it together for them 🙄

The whole things beyond a joke now. I'm even failing to find it funny when fishermen and farmers who voted out start crying that they're going to be screwed

At least the thick racists have an excuse, that they are thick racists and can't be expected to do better than vote for the thick racist option. The leavers who are not thick racists, they are the ones to blame.

(not that there were any thick racists, I'm sure, but just in case there were)

What about the thick and deluded like Davies?

I note here that everything the remainers said was inevitable in these negotiations has come to pass, nothing the leavers have said would happen has

true they did not even predict they would win 😉

I had a little browse thru the early parts of this thread looking for outies who claimed everything would be fine. Where are they now? "project fear" was right

Good to see the thicko theme is still going strong

Any luck,we can ban them from being heard in future. And you wonder where they’ve gone 😯

And yet still they beat us - who are the stupid ones???

who are the stupid ones???

They’re all down the pub congratulating each other as it’s “mission accomplished”

How are your predictions of the outcomes of all this mess coming along THM? YOu know - the germans need us to buy their stuff, the adults will soon make a deal, financial services won't be effected that sort of thing?

All the nonsense that you said would happen but hasn't / isn't. Hows that coming along? Especially the we will get a bespoke deal?

I'll remove the killfile to see your answer

Enjoying the hops not the sour grapes

Oh hello TJ how nice to hear from you.

Pretty much smack on thanks. So you can put the block back on and carry on

kimbers, if you’re reading this...am I wrong or do you work in gene-related stuff?

Well that was worth unblocking you for. 😯 Deluded as ever. all your predictions I remember are 100% wrong

😯

It wasn’t worth it. 😉

I'm delighted to hear (2nd hand) that Johnson has finally worked out what the RoI position is, and why. At least, he has admitted that he didn't understand it previously.

Bodes well for the success of our "negotiations", doesn't it...maybe the cabinet will now start to think about the problems seriously? No, I didn't think so....

ZOMG I've just realised.THM is on the government negotiating team !!!!

It would make sense. Well, more sense than his postings...

deadlydarcy - Member
kimbers, if you’re reading this...am I wrong or do you work in gene-related stuff

Yes I do, genetics of leave vs remain?

Is there a Brexit gene?

I was just wondering when you guys had engineered the removal of the self-awareness gene...I’d surely have read about it wouldn’t I?

It explains the sneering,superciliousness,refusal to explain anything,constant assurances all is well,he is David Davies using a nom de plume.Sorry,that's a false name (for Brexiters).

We are not worthy,we are not worthy.

Captain, sorry for my ignorance, what is the Rol position? And where/ when did Boris admit he didn't know what it was? ( sorry if it was explained earlier in the thread, but I'm not trawling back through a couple of thousand posts to find it)!

ROI position is that the good friday agreement must be honoured and there must be no hard border at the NI / ROI border

Problem is that the EU requires a hard border at all its external borders.

Its impossible to solve ( well apart from having the hard border in the irish sea which would give the DUP apoplexy

Aaah, Republic of Ireland, sorry, I'll just sit at the back!

At what point are the Zimbabwean army are going to roll down Whitehall to restore order here. I wonder whether the UK army is leave or remain (having just re-watched A Very British Coup on All4).

Augustus, twitter tells me boris embarrassed himself on sky though I haven't seen it myself.

https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/931495871476391938

The guy (boris) is beyond stupidity and incompetence.
Now I'm no expert on the political and violent issues that have occurred between Ireland and the UK, but I've a fairly broad understanding growing up in the 80's....

It's. His. Job. To. Know. These. Things. In. Intimate. Detail.

And he's paid very handsomely for it.

I've just realised.THM is on the government negotiating team !!!!

Yes I do, genetics of leave vs remain?

Is there a Brexit gene?

Nature v Nuture, looking at the correlation between outlook and voting patterns, golliwog isn't racist, no climate change etc...

Anyway, more positive news, if Faisal Islam is to be believed(some?) Pharma have now decided to go with the hard brexit scenario and do what is needed to comply with EU regs.

Do have to wonder what the news will be like by March, it takes time to move, to set up orgs. How is the development of the new UK-"EMA" going? or how about the new UK-"EUROTOM", the negotiations for a new open skies agreement etc.

Pharma have now decided to go with the hard brexit scenario and do what is needed to comply with EU regs.

Pharma have been warning for a while that they needed clarity soon, drug development is a long game

Well it's going to be a very rough road before we get anywhere, the pm of Ireland has issued an ultimatum over the border conundrum, the EU have said the same with the additional demands of financial settlement agreements by mid December before trade negotiations can begin.

Oh and I almost forgot the government has been ordered to release the the industry impact studies during that time too. Just how how censored they will be, I'm not sure, but if they are it will be very obvious and that will kick up another stink to join all the other stinks that are hanging in the air.

There really are not words in the English language that correctly convey this level of absurdity.

If this is Dantes inferno, the historians got it wrong, there's a tenth circle, brexit.

Oh and I almost forgot the government has been ordered to release the the industry impact studies during that time too.

Actually they were ordered to release them a couple of weeks ago, after a legally binding vote, but they suddenly discovered it was a misunderstanding and they didn't actually exist, so they were conveniently unable to publish them before the Brexit debates in parliament. Handy that.

I've yet to experience a Gov who quite such a shower of shite as the current incumbents.....

mrlebowski - Member
I've yet to experience a Gov who quite such a shower of shite as the current incumbents.....

Pharma is about to pull the trigger on 100's of millions of pounds to ensure continuity of drug supply in the uk and eu due to the uk becoming a third country and not able to release drugs into the bloc without in bloc testing, the brexies have no idea just him much this will affect uk access to new drugs simply as the eu will be priority for new drug filings as it is a bigger market.

I'm working on setting up a new lab somewhere in the eu as it's gotta be better than here

sitting here just noticed on the back of my iPhone a CE mark....

There used to be BS standards and in construction many have long gone replaced by Eurocodes.

So in the brave new world what happens, will all products have to carry kite marks, would producers bother? Or maybe we will just carry on with the CE marks and have no say in their development?

Remember Johnson when being briefed by the permanent civil service on hearing things he didn't like stuck his fingers in his ears and sang the national anthem. this is how we have got to where we are. I have been a political geek for 40+ years. Ihave never seen anything like it. Worse than the last day so Major, Worse than Callaghan. The combination of ignorance and hubris spiced with delusion is breathtaking

I [i]think[/i] it's the same answer as all the other stuff mrmo.

The UK will spend a bunch of money setting up its own parallel organisation that will mirror what the EU does.

Imported products will have to meet our standards and exported products to the EU will have to meet CE standards. In practise this probably means the UK organisation will accept CE certification as equivalent, so UK manufacturers (who go beyond the domestic market) will still manufacture to CE standards - except we won't have any say in those standards.

That world suck for scientific/ medical aid as UK was/is a major driver in shaping those regs

Remember Johnson when being briefed by the permanent civil service on hearing things he didn't like stuck his fingers in his ears and sang the national anthem. this is how we have got to where we are. I have been a political geek for 40+ years. Ihave never seen anything like it. Worse than the last day so Major, Worse than Callaghan. The combination of ignorance and hubris spiced with delusion is breathtaking

We are about to crash out and negotiate WTO agreements which are hideously crap, take decades if we are lucky.. with a massively tarnished reputation of broken promises and contracts so we'll be subjected to expensive deals.

What could possibly be worse than this for the UK?

This taking back control thing...

Really seems to be going well....

We could have a military coup?

Although with the funding cuts it wouldn't last long.

The UK has, over a few decades', been hollowed-out and the effects are now all too visible.
No clear manufacturing and industrial strategy; over-reliance on 'services' which, by their very nature, can be moved relatively easily; underfunded education system; NHS poorly led; armed forces which have been subjected to death by a thousand (budgetary) cuts.
A government of intellectual midgets - and the labour party is little, if any, better.
All of this would have been deeply concerning in isolation but we now have the shambles that is Brexit dumped on top.
Any fool can trot out optimistic statements and repeat ad nauseam in the hope that listeners will believe - see May, Davies, Johnson etc for example.
I have said since last June that the EU would hand out something of a lesson to the UK in the negotiations - that was clear - but it is painful and embarassing to see the UK team's incompetence.
In a sense it's good to see May and co being slapped down by the EU team as it might help some of brexiteers to understand that the vision of future benefits which they were seduced by was nothing but a mirage; a hard lesson in economic reality is on the way. Possibly a growing anti-brexit movement? Who knows.
As an aside, Norway now has the most valuable sovereign wealth fund in the world - built on it's north sea oil revenues; UK doesn't have a sovereign wealth fund despite having had substantial revenues from the same source.
Another aside - when will a UK gov initiate an open, non-partisan discussion about tax; identify and agree on what needs to be funded and then structure the personal and corporate tax system to deliver the necessary revenues.
Utopian? Probably because there are too many individuals and businesses with no interest in the greater good or the national interest - and too many politicians would fail to engage in a grown-up discussion.

We are about to crash out and negotiate WTO agreements which are hideously crap,

North Korea
I'm not sure how to spell the possibile other one that might be but chances are you have never heard about.

That's right pure WTO puts the UK behind the likes of Syria etc.

Mike its Somalia, not that hard to spell. I for one welcome UK plc's future as a nation of pirates living in shanty's hijacking passing ships.

5 year old me would love being a pirate to be a valid career choice.

We did that in the past.

Sir Francis Drake et al

Mauritius is the other country that comes up, but someone worked out that they actually do have trade deals with their neighbours.

Go us!

Good to see UBS abandoning their doomsday forecasts for U.K. growth yesterday Albeit that are still too low. Still less of the exaggerated nonsense is welcome especially as it folllws their admission that job movements would be less than first suggested.

Underlying tends are really rather dull hence the need for the wild hyperbole from remoaners

Still lower than they would have been though THM - no?

And not exactly high on anyone’s measure.

Still, politics before prosperity eh?

It's a bit rich honking about the wild hyperbole of remainers, given the nature of Leave's campaigning. And of course it's only hyperbole if it IS an exageration.

Well that's good news even tho we a) still haven't left b) the sum total of SFA relating to the terms of our exit has been agreed.

🙄 (I know you love a smiley)

I love the way remainers are going see it wont be as bad as we feared [ but it will still be bad] and we are meant to celebrate this as good news

Its a bit like your doctor giving you the good news that the whole leg does not have to go just the leg before the knee

I love the way remainers are going see it wont be as bad as we feared [ but it will still be bad] and we are meant to celebrate this as good news

Thing is though public services are already on thier knees, and will stay that way for decades probably, if they ever recover, due to this.

The long term cost to society as a whole will be truly tragic.