What country and lifestyle do you want which the EU is precluding?
Streets full of white folks and spam fritters for tea. Good old days 🙂
What country and lifestyle do you want which the EU is precluding?
I thought it was the one where everyone stood for the national anthem when the TV stopped playing and we were respected/feared the world over and won world cups - think about we havn't won anything since we joined.
- so work was done by contractors and 3rd parties.
This is how Britain has worked since the. 90s
When I was a contractor at the London-based European Head Office of a finance company for 4 years, my clients were variously English, Dutch, ****stani, American, Half-French, so being political and not doing your job is, to be fair, not unique to the English.
And my mate working in the UAE only has his job because generally speaking, the indigenous Arab population are so ineffective...
and I'm sure somebody will be along to tell me I'm wrong but in summary
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38546820
Brexit Means Brexit an it will be RW&B. That about it?
In contrast some wise words from Ken
Earlier, Europhile former Conservative chancellor Ken Clarke told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "Theresa needs to address the more serious question, I think, of the muddle [Sir Ivan is] complaining about, see whether she agrees with him and decide whether she can improve the way in which she organises the government to get to a proper conclusion.
"[b]To turn everything into personal abuse as soon as anybody seems to faintly disagree with out new zealot crusade to leave the continent of Europe is rather an unfortunate feature of our post-Brexit politics[/b]."
I thought it was the one where everyone stood for the national anthem when the TV stopped playing and we were respected/feared the world over and won world cups - think about we havn't won anything since we joined.
Yes we can set up our own "World Series" and always win.
from the May thread ...
Well done racists
I know it's a big mystery to some people as to "where did it all go wrong?" but that comment helps to explain much of what was wrong with the Remain campaign.I tend not to bother listening to people who call me racist because I believe in democracy and the sovereignty of the British people, I certainly don't take anything they say very seriously.
The irony is that many Remainers denounce the electorate for being allegedly thick and yet these same people are too daft to figure out why despite everything being stacked in their favour, eg all the major political parties backing Remain and a compliant media, they still managed to screw up.
This from Ernie is spot on. Calling people racists just made Leavers feel they where right as Remainers had lost the plot and where simply hurling insults. I had this conversation numerous times on Vote Leave stalls.
Remainers have to grasp that their campaign was weak and with Corbyn giving the EU 7/10 and leading Remainers acknowledging the EU needed reform (ie was broken) was a desperately weak argument
Whatever people think of May she is absolutely crushing her political opposition in Labour and Lib Dems
Remainers have to grasp that their campaign was weak and with Corbyn giving the EU 7/10 and leading Remainers acknowledging the EU needed reform (ie was broken) was a desperately weak argument
Why? My reasoning for remaining is as strong, if not stronger, than ever.
How's life in France?
Remainers have to grasp that their campaign didn't[i][b] play dirty enough[/b][/i].
> insert NHS logo here <
Some interesting surveys recently showing that the percentage of people who believe the NHS will benefit greatly from leaving the EU is at an all time high. Bullshit sticks…
There is no opposition. The people will do what the papers tell them.
Jamb I would really like you to meet my mum. She is far from mobile and refuses to have any help as she has read about the foreign care workers who rob old people. She voted out as her friend had a Nigerian nurse be nasty to her in hospital.
She is a total ****ing **** wit. She sits in her front room soaking up everything the mail tells her and she is getting nastier by the minute.
She is not alone. These people really exist. Her decision to vote out wasn't made by examining facts ,it was made by a total hatred of foreign people.
Edit. She has never left the country either.
Calling people racists just made Leavers feel they where right as Remainers had lost the plot and where simply hurling insults.
They're in this thread several hundred pages ago but in the aftermath of the vote there was a never ending supply of videos showing the man or woman in the street being interviewed and every one was anti immigrant and/or anti foreigner and more often than not the view was frighteningly wrong. An overwhelming amount that voted to stop Muslims coming to the country for example.
The coherent arguments for brexit are far outweighed by the ill informed ones.
> insert photo of dark skinned refugees fleeing their war torn country here <
Leave didn't win because of ignorance and racism
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Leave won because of ignorance and racism.
[quote=Junkyard ]Is that what you needed reminding off or do you not even want to have one thing - beyond Muslim bashing- that you say and hold consistently?
Leave the poor snowflake alone. He's also consistent at posting jambafacts.
Jamba - the quote you have from Ernie suggests a compliant media. Clearly he lives in a different universe if he thinks the media compliantly supported remain.
Some did, but normally in a balanced way.
Then we had the nutters of the Mail, Express, Sun and sadly the Telegraph.
The Times was fairly neutral.
I think the press on balance was nasty and Brexy.
A balanced press would have hung the Brexies out to dry after a Brexit supporter murdered Jo Cox - egged on by Nigel "without a shot being fired" Farage and his nasty racist poster (I make no comment on whether NF is racist himself of course).
(I make no comment on whether NF is racist himself of course
He is definitely a complete **** though.
I know you think otherwise hebdencyclist but that research by Lord Ashcroft completely undermines the point that you are trying to make, ie, that's it OK to call those who were in favour of leaving ignorant racists.
Because it shows that a substantial percentage of people who voted to leave have no problem with multiculturalism, social liberalism, immigration, etc.
If only a small number of them had been sufficiently convinced it would have tipped it in favour of remain.
However dismissing them as ignorant racists made them far less likely to listen to people like you. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say if you are lying to their faces and calling them racists?
A lot of them were / are racists Ernie. Some weren't I agree.
Don't want to be called a racist? Don't side with them.
[quote=ernie_lynch ]I know you think otherwise hebdencyclist but that research by Lord Ashcroft completely undermines the point that you are trying to make, ie, that's it OK to call those who were in favour of leaving ignorant racists.
Where exactly is he making that point?
I've certainly never suggested that all people voting Leave were ignorant racists, however that doesn't mean I don't agree with the point he is making, which is supported by that research. Those are the people you are in bed with (though I'd think you might be more uncomfortable about jamba, ninfan, Gove, Loathsome et al as bedfellows than ordinary people who have been sold a lie).
igm - MemberDon't want to be called a racist? Don't side with them.
Haha brilliant !.......don't support leaving the EU otherwise I'll call you a racist!!!
EDIT : And right there is a classic example of what I mean about the futility of attempting to have a sensible debate.
[b]"It's nothing to do with immigrants"
"It's all to do with immigrants"[/b]
[i]loop and fade out…[/i]
Ernie - almost but not quite. Perhaps you missed a bit.
A lot of them were / are racists Ernie. Some weren't I agree.
I think more that if almost everyone voting for something is racist, then think long and hard before you join them.
And for the record I haven't called you a racist - I don't know you and your postings on here don't really suggest it to me.
However fellow travellers can get tarred with the same brush, so people might start to make the wrong assumptions about the odd non-racist Brexy.
And how is that working out for you politically IGM?
Seems to me that all the 'progressive political left' (for want of a better phrase) have achieved in calling out the racists and their fellow travellers is strengthening people's resolve not to be bulled, leading to the loss of the Brexit vote and catapulting Trump into power
Cheers aye!
ernie_lynch - Member
I know you think otherwise hebdencyclist but that research by Lord Ashcroft completely undermines the point that you are trying to make, ie, that's it OK to call those who were in favour of leaving ignorant racists.
It's late, I had a big day on the bike today and I'm pretty tired so may not be thinking clearly however looking at that table on the previous page, don't the two clear categories around immigration show pretty conclusively that those that thought immigration and multiculturalism were bad overwhelming voted leave???
Or am i completely misreading it?
80% of those who didn't like immigration or multiculturalism voted leave???
Completely flipped about for the remaining side
igm - Member
Ernie - almost but not quite. Perhaps you missed a bit.A lot of them were / are racists Ernie. Some weren't I agree.
I think more that if almost everyone voting for something is racist, then think long and hard before you join them.
And for the record I haven't called you a racist - I don't know you and your postings on here don't really suggest it to me.
However fellow travellers can get tarred with the same brush, so people might start to make the wrong assumptions about the odd non-racist Brexy.
Which is one reason why I've assiduously avoided contributing to this thread. Because I support leaving, but to admit to it is more than likely have a narrow-minded clot like you clearly are start ranting at me as a racist, despite knowing nothing whatsoever about me.
I think more that if [s]almost everyone[/s] some people voting for something is racist
That's far closer to the reality.
I think the simple conclusion we came to was not all voting out were racist, but a very high percentage of the racists voted out.
Then there are those who start their points with "I'm not racist but..."
[quote=CountZero ]I think more that if [s]almost everyone[/s] some people voting for something is racist
That's far closer to the reality.
"almost everyone" is clearly a bit strong, but do you think they weren't the majority, or even the vast majority? I'm including here people who might claim not to be racist, but have views which effectively are.
Welcome to the thread BTW - it is useful to have opinions from the other side, and I'm certainly not going to fling insults at you. Why did you vote Leave?
I believe a lot of voters were duped by racist propaganda without realising
So much rhetoric about "foreigners" making decisions for Britain. Pile on top the whole "unelected" propaganda and it was a perfect storm. So even if people could say they weren't against those of a different colour, there was a pretty clear anti foreigner sentiment that many probably didn't realise they were buying into.
Personally I want the best people making decisions regardless of their nationality.
And looking at the incompetent fools that are leading us at the moment, I'd take anything over them at the moment.
Why we must leave the customs union (Swiss aren't members btw)
http://brexitcentral.com/must-leave-customs-union/
Why should anyone listen to what you have to say if you are lying to their faces
Says the man who voted for Farage and his £350million bus. 😉
However dismissing them as ignorant racists made them far less likely to listen to people like you.
They were never going to listen to any moderate, liberal voice. They (you) listened to populist dog-whistles about immigration and "taking back control" or something.
Anyway I asked you a question on the other thread. You said you voted Leave because you wanted sovereignty. I asked you what this meant, why you felt you did not have sovereignty before, and how the UK will be better now we have (you perceive) our sovereignty back, and whether those perceived benefits are worth any price.
Will you answer?
jambalaya - Member
Why we must leave the customs union (Swiss aren't members btw)
Rounding slightly for ease, but 50% of our imports and exports are from or to the EU
How will we have a better deal with the EU outside of it?
What are we going to bring to the table that will force a better deal with EU countries than the one we already have?
Maybe I'm being blinkered by i simply cannot see how we benefit here. The EU will screw us out of pettiness and to send a message to other member states
If we are then forced to go outside the EU for trade deals, we are on the backfoot as we have nowhere else to go and that puts others in a very, very strong negotiating position
jambalaya - Member
Why we must leave the customs union (Swiss aren't members btw)
Puts some valid points forward but for the colcusion I reach from reading the arguments is that we would be better off all in the EU and that in order to try some radical ideas out we need to be out of it all and accept being worse off then trying things to make the UK better off.
If you plans add say 10bn to the economy but to implement the plans you have to remove 15bn from it you are still 5bn worse off.
Maybe I'm being blinkered by i simply cannot see how we benefit here. The EU will screw us out of pettiness and to send a message to other member states
The EU will negotiate the best for the EU, it's what they should be doing and I can hold no bitterness or anger towards that. The UK wants a deal that is massivly sided towards the UK not the EU, it's a valid aim but not different to the EU wanting the same. They also hold the time card, the size card and the impact card (estimates was a cost to the UK economy of 5% but the EU 1% as which they would find easier to absorb)
The EU will negotiate the best for the EU, it's what they should be doing and I can hold no bitterness or anger towards that.
100%
And how is that working out for you politically IGM?
Is IGM running for office?
So much rhetoric about "foreigners" making decisions for Britain.
Yes. Brussels is closer to Dover than Paris is to Marseilles, or LA is to Washington DC. So what's the difference? It's cos they're FOREIGN.
Nationlism. End of.
Calling people racists just made Leavers feel they where right as Remainers had lost the plot and where simply hurling insults.
I'm not calling leavers racists. I'm calling them nationalistic and ignorant. Maybe also xenophobic.
Does that help?
Remain had a bad campaign, agreed. Not all leavers are racist, also agreed. However it's still a bloody stupid idea, and hugely diminishes the UK culturually.
So people voted to leave and it has nothing to do with immigration or the message written on the side of a bus.
Why exactly did they vote to leave then?
It has all to do with immigration.
But racism, xenophobia and nationalism are all different things. Related, yes, but different.
Here you go ZK, from a few days ago
teamhurtmore - Member
Why dId we vote to leave??? Didnt you read the bus script?1. £350m
2. Keep the nasties out
3. Give the folk in immigration 'owt to do
4. ditto the legislature - those folk in wigs, robes and ermine
5. Trade deal with the 12% of the world we don't have deals with now, while screwing the 88% that we do haveSource: #fakecontolwebsite
Simples. Why didn't anyone think of this before?
POSTED 4 DAYS AGO #
It has all to do with immigration.
For a lot of them it was to do with the left deliberatley using immigration as a political weapon to "rub their noses in diversity"* and promote multiculturalism, whilst successfully gerrymandering the Labour vote.
*Andrew Neather, former Labour advisor
and promote multiculturalism
And people are against multiculturalism...?
And people are against multiculturalism...?
Trevor Philips, former chair of the commision for racial equality, has said for years that it was a 'racket' and warned that it promotes segregation and difference rather than harmony and integration
What's the alternative? Monoculturlism? Forced integration?
Why we must leave the customs union (Swiss aren't members btw)
R4 Today this morning - the Swiss deal with the EU is that jobs have to be offered to Swiss citizens first apparently and on that basis they have access to the SM.
I'd be pretty certain that if you went back to a position of free movement of labour (rather than of persons generally) had something similar to Norway where you have to find a job within six months this could be presented as a huge victory by the [/s]National Socialists[s]Brexiteeers / Enola May (control blah blah blah) end of story.
And people are against multiculturalism...?
Many, are, and they voted Leave.
See the survey Hebdencyclist posted on the previous page.
"It's nothing to do with immigrants"
"It's all to do with immigrants"
loop and fade out…
There will be no fade, will there.…
end of story
You are a dreamer.
The reality is already pretty close to what you describe.
You are approaching this in a rational way,
Nothing I've read recently suggests that those wanting out would respond well to that.
As I got a bus through chinatown in san francisco recently, it struck me that peoples' views (including my own) on segregation and multiculturalism are very inconsistent and emotional rather than logical.
Why oh why do we live in a world where the Mash comes across as a serious newspaper
BREXIT voters are still expecting clarity from a gang of absolute shysters you couldn’t trust to do ****ing anything, it has emerged.Many Brexiters say that although they are still happy they voted to Leave, they now want the untrustworthy gang of lying bastards behind the referendum to ‘give them some clarity on it’.
Donna Sheridan said: “I just want to know exactly what it is I’ve voted for. Is that too much to ask for from a gang of totally self-serving careerist politicians?
“I mean, there’s no way Neil Hamilton would get behind something he didn’t fully understand.”
Martin Bishop said: “Just because these people would have told us measles was caused by ghosts if it served their personal agenda, doesn’t mean they don’t have a detailed plan for the most complex economic shift in recent political history.
“Look at Boris. That’s the face of a man who knows.”
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/brexiters-still-expecting-clarity-from-gang-of-absolute-shysters-20170109119877
