On the racist thing, it all went wrong when Gordon Brown apologised to that racist woman for calling her racist.*
Sometimes politicians should just tell the truth and say "well, she was saying racist things, I assumed she meant them".
CZ - I don't know you, I don't know if you're racist. But you are a fellow traveller.
Ninfan - politically? Not a clue. Financially? Brexit will probably be good for me (though not so much for many others and I will be culturally poorer, probably less secure (Northumbria Police) and definitely a little sad for the demise of a force for good - but life goes on and money talks)
*to be fair she may not have been racist, just saying racist things.
On the racist thing, it all went wrong when Gordon Brown apologised to that racist woman for calling her racist
True, along with staying out of the € that was one thing Grodi got right. She expressed "bigoted" views.
Multiculturalism ... okay ... Let's try this.
How many languages can you speak fluently?
BREXIT voters are still expecting clarity from a gang of absolute shysters you couldn’t trust to do **** anything, it has emerged.
Many Brexiters say that although they are still happy they voted to Leave, they now want the untrustworthy gang of lying bastards behind the referendum to ‘give them some clarity on it’.Donna Sheridan said: “I just want to know exactly what it is I’ve voted for. Is that too much to ask for from a gang of totally self-serving careerist politicians?
“I mean, there’s no way Neil Hamilton would get behind something he didn’t fully understand.”
Martin Bishop said: “Just because these people would have told us measles was caused by ghosts if it served their personal agenda, doesn’t mean they don’t have a detailed plan for the most complex economic shift in recent political history.
“Look at Boris. That’s the face of a man who knows.”
😆
How many languages can you speak fluently?
0.9 in my case.
That's more than a lot of Leave voters if the Internet is anything to go by.
a huge victory by the [/s]National Socialists[s]Brexiteeers
Far be it for me to defend the Nazis, but they showed *massive* commitment to uniting Europe under one Government and also to moving large numbers of workers between states.
Sitting in a bar next to a group of American ladies. They are discussing getting visas for Switzerland and Austria .
Imagine having to get a visa for each American state if you travelled to the US.
I really hope we don't ever have to go through all that.
Try establishing a company in India or China our new preferred markets - gave me my first grey hairs
The only country I can recall ever needing a visa to visit was India, and they took so long over it that I wasn't able to go.
Imagine having to get a visa for each American state if you travelled to the US.
I really hope we don't ever have to go through all that.
its a piece of paper, why make life harder than you need to?
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Everything i hear only reinforces that getting a second passport was a good idea.
And anyway who is paying for all the new passports in 2019?? I am assuming that Jamby will be happy to pay for my new blue passport as the current burgundy one is rendered invalid?
We have 350 million a week to cover the costs 🙄
The EU will negotiate the best for the EU, it's what they should be doing and I can hold no bitterness or anger towards that.
Yup and there is a mutual benefit to free trade, good for them and good for us. Their arguments for restricting it are politcal not economic. There will be a cost to them of no free trade, they maybe prepared to oay that cost in order to try and protect "the project" / their very cushy high pay low tax EU Commission/Parliament jobs. The interesting owrt will be the interaction of EU member states who have much to lose.
Theresa May hit the nail on the head today, she said those that signed the various treaties have ignored the concerns of the people and there has been an adverse reaction. Politicans shouod learn from that.
Our arguments for leaving the EU are political not economic.
(Inasmuch as there are any arguments, as opposed to sound bites and slogans)
those that signed the various treaties have ignored the concerns of the people and there has been an adverse reaction. Politicans shouod learn from that.
oh but they have, from le penn, to farage and the brexiteer MPs: theyve learnt its much easier to blame EU treaties and brussles bureaucrats than their own incompetence for the inequalities of society, and the easliy lead swallow it whole
Yup and there is a mutual benefit to free trade, good for them and good for us. Their arguments for restricting it are politcal not economic. There will be a cost to them of no free trade, they maybe prepared to oay that cost in order to try and protect "the project"
I for one am shocked that this may happen. Who would have thought it, who could have predicted it?
£ down
FTSE100 up
FTSE250 flat
nice easy trends to make money from the Brexshiteers!
On the political v economic idea, where does Brexshit lie. All studies quoted point to bad economic decision, so we are presumably favouring politics too? Either that or just being plain stupid....
I worry about my dad and brother who run the family farm. Currently there is a limit to how much lamb and beef is imported into the EU. The export market to the EU greatly influences the price we can get at home due to increased competition that is outside the control of the big super markets. Farmers outside the EU can produce lamb and beef much more cheaply than we can in the UK. Being exposed to global markets I expect will be a huge shock to the agricultural economy. When we sign all these new trade agreements which parts of the economy do we decide we want to protect and which are we willing to sacrice and what power and skills does our civil service and government have to make those deals and strategy?
At the moment we have zero experience and zero direction of the strategic direction of our ecomony except for the primacy of financial services which is why we are in this mess in the first place.
I beleive my dad and brothers business will be sacrified as we either beg for trade deals with the rest of the world and/or sacrificed in order to promote those sectors of the economy that we can compete in. It would be economic madness to do anything else if we are going to expose ourselves to free trade. Not sure exactly how this is going to solve the problems of those who feel they want to take back control.
Its Ok GEDA
Andrea Leadsome is looking out for the farmers 😯
(lets just pretend she wasnt humiliated at the Oxford Farming Conference last week)
GEDA, using history to predict the future is always dangerous but the best parallel we have is fisheries policy, remember that Farage was the UK representative on that one. That fishing quotas were regularly given for favours in other areas.
Obviously what the plan is with CAP will be a big issue. History suggests that vested interests will win on that one.
They should be happy this year CAP and exports in Euros when the pound is tanking can only be a good thing!
Our products won't be cheap in a year's time once all the extra cost of importing the materials has filtered through.
Isn't CAP dependant on what the WTO dictates? As the WTO are anti-state subsidies to prevent dumping. That was one of the point made in the run up to the vote, as if we shift to WTO trade deal the farming subsidies will have to stop and the farmers will have to compete in the global market.
WTO director general Roberto Azevedo - “UK farmers would have to compete with Brazil, Argentina, Australia and the United States on a par – with no tariffs, no quotas and potentially no subsidies, because they will have to reduce the subsidies as well."
- http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/wto-issues-uk-farm-brexit-warning.htm
Which why is seemed insane that the majority of farming communities voted to cut their own throats.
Seems quite logical with WTO rules, and yes I expect they voted for Brexit.
The sensible option seems to say that we want Brexit but will not call it until it is in our interest and in the mean time refocus our ecomony so we can do a good job when we do do Brexit.
I expect that the farmers will be royally ****ed and I"m looking forward to it cos they voted for it, like the selfish xenophobic bigots that they (often) are. Sadly of course some good people will be caught up in the shit, that's what happens when we pander to extremists and zealots.
selfish xenophobic bigots that they (often) are.
Really? I'd have thought Farming is a massive consumer of Eastern European Labour?
The only farmer I know exclusively employs Eastern Europeans and a vast percentage of the Eastern European Community in the two areas I know well work in farming. (I'm thinking maybe 90pc...)
Yes I know it seems idiotic, but lots of fields round here had leave billboards in. Of course not so much veg picking up here (yorkshire dales, mostly livestock).
Yes I know it seems idiotic, but lots of fields round here had leave billboards in.
I'm not questioning that Farmers voted to leave, I have no idea if they did or not.
I am questioning that Farmers are bigoted and xenophobic, given they work almost exclusively with non-uk workers.
What your evidence that farmers are bigoted and xenophobic?
Same here most (if not all) were full of vote leave billboards, which made zero sense; which is why the NFU backed remain.
Hopefully switching to WTO deal won't have the same implications for rural communities that it did when NZ did it (suicides up, land/house prices down, small businesses gone, communities bankrupt)
Don't worry about land prices.
Prediction: planning rules will be torn up to allow rural land owners to make money from suburbanising the countryside as payments for environmental protection and food security get binned after next general election.
Hopefully switching to WTO deal won't have the same implications for rural communities that it did when NZ did it
From Wikipedia:
The government offered a number of subsidies during the 1970s to assist farmers after the United Kingdom joined the European Economic Community[3] and by the early 1980s government support provided some farmers with 40 percent of their income.[4] In 1984 the Labour government ended all farm subsidies,[5] and by 1990 the agricultural industry became the most deregulated sector in New Zealand.[6] To stay competitive in the heavily subsidised European and US markets New Zealand farmers had to increase the efficiency of their operations.
New Zealand farmers had to increase the efficiency of their operations.
And how exactly do you think they did this?
NZ is better off now but it had a very rough time to get to where it is now.
Prediction: planning rules will be torn up to allow rural land owners to make money from suburbanising the countryside as payments for environmental protection and food security get binned after next general election.
Brexit just keeps on giving.
No doubt Enola can do a fantastic deal that we can buy food from China at highly inflated rates or they oooh turn off our electricity.
Take back control? Sold to the only person prepared to bid.
There's your ****ing enemy of the people.
planning rules will be torn up to allow rural land owners to make money from suburbanising the countryside
Already happened. The national planning framework was basically a green light to build. We've lost so much stunning land in the areas I'm familiar with.
And how exactly do you think they did this?
No idea. (Assuming that question was aimed at me.)
[i] Currently there is a limit to how much lamb and beef is imported into the EU. [/I]
Yes, and the UK will be 'joining' that limit - so which country will be happy to give up market share so the UK can have some?
This is the same the world over, and all that will occur is that the EU will keep their % they currently have to non-EU countries and the UK will then have to 'acquire' share from other countries - and yes, they won't just give us it...
The government offered a number of subsidies during the 1970s to assist farmers after the United Kingdom joined the European Economic Community
See, as many of us have been saying, we cast aside and shat on our commonwealth partners to cosy up to the EEC, it was a bloody travesty.
Yes, and the UK will be 'joining' that limit - so which country will be happy to give up market share so the UK can have some?
UK is a net importer of Beef and Lamb, in fact we import nearly 100k tones of the stuff - we dont need to export anything to anyone, we could just concentrate on serving our home market and buying from our own farmers.
Should food be shipped from the other side of the world or from just across the sea?
Should food be shipped from the other side of the world or from just across the sea?
Due to the nature of sea miles rather than road miles, allied with extensive rearing, the carbon footprint of imported NZ meat is generally lower than EU imported meat
edit (mint) source:
[i]One study by Lincoln University, in New Zealand, found that 2,849kg of carbon dioxide is produced for every tonne of lamb raised in Britain, while just 688kg of the gas is released with imported New Zealand lamb, even after it has travelled the 11,000 miles to Britain. Researchers and farmers in Britain have raised doubts over the accuracy of the New Zealand figures, but they concede that sheep farming in New Zealand is more efficient than in our own country.[/i]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1553456/Greener-by-miles.html
[quote=ninfan ]Due to the nature of sea miles rather than road miles, allied with extensive rearing, the carbon footprint of imported NZ meat is generally lower than EU imported meatI'd really like to see some stats on that. And I mean [i]really[/i] like to see them, not just to try and disprove a point. It annoys me that the Tesco in Aviemore sells New Zealand venison when the local hills are being ravaged by the antlered vermin! I might calm down a bit if there are sound reasons 🙂
we dont need to export anything to anyone, we could just concentrate on serving our home market and buying from our own farmers.
Try telling that to the people who don't want to pay for it and would rather buy cheaper imported meat. And 90%* of those people voted leave.
*I don't need to evidence where the 90% figure came from as following the lead from Leavers.
I'll stick to British lamb (providing someone is still producing it in x years time).
@ Scotroutes - fill yer boots
(though I would suggest that the issue with UK venison for Tesco is its seasonality and traceability, therefore suppliers likely to go for farmed rather than wild, and NZ having a much more established continuity of farmed venison supplies, and most probably still cheaper)
Ta.
Off to digest!
No doubt Enola can do a fantastic deal that we can buy food from China at highly inflated rates or they oooh turn off our electricity.
China is buying up huge amounts of Farmland across Europe so the food miles will be relatively low, however they are doing this to ensure food security; so we would only get what they don't want or need.
So in the event of a food crisis we can always get our Blitz cookbooks out and get down the allotment.
http://www.marketplace.org/2016/09/19/world/chinese-investors-are-buying-french-farmland
