Theresa is the unity PM who totally gets it,
UNITY!!!
someone who has huge form for incompitence. Who has stated the aim is cut immigration and screw the economy plenty of time.
There is no way to appease the brexiters and the remainers, but the tories don't give a s***, about the 74% of the population they only care about the 36% of nutters, and racists and the odd person who actually believes brexit is a good economic idea.
😆
you are like a Grand cru Jambalaya , you get better by the day .
[I]Binners, I am all for people with worthwhile EU experience. However they have to be 100% behind the Brexit vision, which is out of the EU, customs union and single market. [/I]
So who do you want as PM, 'cos surely TM isn't this person either?
She was simply smart enough to recognise that our best interests were served as a member of the flawed EU - a subtedly far too far for the three Brexshiteers for whom two syllables is a syllable too far
Nige on Channel 4 News. No deal is better than the whole thing dragging on and restricting us from agreeing new global deals and oaying a high fee for the privilege.
UNITY !
[ everyone must agree with and support the invisible plan, or step aside ]
they only care about the 36% of nutters, and racists and the odd person who actually believes brexit is a good economic idea.
If all of that 36% vote Tory at the next election as a result, then May carries on… job done.
There is no democratic pressure to try get a "deal for the nation", just a deal that keeps the Tories in office.
jambalaya - Member
Nige on Channel 4 News. No deal is better than the whole thing dragging on and restricting us from agreeing new global deals and oaying a high fee for the privilege.
thats the kind of naive bobbins youd expect from someone as deluded by his own self importance as farage
We still have to negotiate a trade deal with the EU as well as the rest of the world, they are after all our largest trade partner, driving out our own negotiators every time they confront you with reality is utterly self defeating.
As such its entirely in keeping with Brexshit.
Unsurprisingly Farage is simply lying in that interview
We have trade deals with 88% of our trading partners many of which were negotiated under advantageous terms thanks to our membership of the EU
Unfortunately in his one dimensional view of the world such a possibility is beyond his limited comprehension. Of course that is the polite version of events. More likely he understands the truth very well but would prefer to simply lie as the ends justify the means a la Farage, Trump, Salmond, Sturgeon & Co
jambalaya - Member
Binners, I am all for people with worthwhile EU experience. However they have to be 100% behind the Brexit vision, which is [s]out of the EU, customs union and single market.[/s] red white and blue but also meaning brexit
Fify, can you remember to tag that it's your view of brexit as the one certainty here is there is no consensus on what people actually want.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38469141 ]CES 2017: UK support to tech firms 'an embarrassment'[/url]
red, white and blue innovation go! ( so long as it's french or american i guess )
red, white and blue innovation go! ( so long as it's french or american i guess )
get with the program man !! we are going for a tea, jam and biscuits post brexit economy, no place for tech as that requires expertise.
interesting that the brexiteers are keen to push out civil servants who are not 100% with the program... sets a dangerous precedent for governments who feel the "political leanings" of senior/any civil servants are not 100% in tune with theirs.
No wonder farage & co are such fans of Putin, everyone who is not 100% loyal to the cause must be expelled
Looks like Sir Ivan got his primary colors mixed up .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38503020
The UK's ambassador to the European Union, Sir Ivan Rogers, has resigned. Here is his message to staff in full.
Dear All,
Happy New Year! I hope that you have all had/are still having, a great break, and that you will come back refreshed and ready for an exciting year ahead.
I am writing to you all on the first day back to tell you that I am today resigning as Permanent Representative.
As most of you will know, I started here in November 2013. My four-year tour is therefore due to end in October - although in practice if we had been doing the Presidency my time here would have been extended by a few months.
As we look ahead to the likely timetable for the next few years, and with the invocation of Article 50 coming up shortly, it is obvious that it will be best if the top team in situ at the time that Article 50 is invoked remains there till the end of the process and can also see through the negotiations for any new deal between the UK and the EU27.
It would obviously make no sense for my role to change hands later this year.
I have therefore decided to step down now, having done everything that I could in the last six months to contribute my experience, expertise and address book to get the new team at political and official level under way.
This will permit a new appointee to be in place by the time Article 50 is invoked.
Importantly, it will also enable that person to play a role in the appointment of Shan's replacement as DPR. [Shan Morgan his deputy]
I know from experience - both my own hugely positive experience of working in partnership with Shan, and from seeing past, less happy, examples - how imperative it is that the PR and DPR operate as a team, if UKREP is to function as well as I believe it has done over the last few years.
I want to put on record how grateful I am to Shan for the great working relationship we have had.
She will be hugely missed in UKREP, and by many others here in Brussels, but she will be a tremendous asset to the Welsh government.
From my soundings before Christmas, I am optimistic that there will be a very good field of candidates for the DPR role.
But it is right that these two roles now get considered and filled alongside each other, and for my successor to play the leading role in making the DPR appointment.
I shall therefore stand aside from the process at this point.
I know that this news will add, temporarily, to the uncertainty that I know, from our many discussions in the autumn, you are all feeling about the role of UKREP in the coming months and years of negotiations over "Brexit".
I am sorry about that, but I hope that it will help produce earlier and greater clarity on the role that UKREP should play.
My own view remains as it has always been. We do not yet know what the government will set as negotiating objectives for the UK's relationship with the EU after exit.
There is much we will not know until later this year about the political shape of the EU itself, and who the political protagonists in any negotiation with the UK will be.
But in any negotiation which addresses the new relationship, the technical expertise, the detailed knowledge of positions on the other side of the table - and the reasons for them, and the divisions amongst them - and the negotiating experience and savvy that the people in this building bring, make it essential for all parts of UKREP to be centrally involved in the negotiations if the UK is to achieve the best possible outcomes.
Serious multilateral negotiating experience is in short supply in Whitehall, and that is not the case in the Commission or in the Council.
The government will only achieve the best for the country if it harnesses the best experience we have - a large proportion of which is concentrated in UKREP - and negotiates resolutely.
Senior ministers, who will decide on our positions, issue by issue, also need from you detailed, unvarnished - even where this is uncomfortable - and nuanced understanding of the views, interests and incentives of the other 27.
The structure of the UK's negotiating team and the allocation of roles and responsibilities to support that team, needs rapid resolution.
The working methods which enable the team in London and Brussels to function seamlessly need also to be strengthened.
The great strength of the UK system - at least as it has been perceived by all others in the EU - has always been its unique combination of policy depth, expertise and coherence, message co-ordination and discipline, and the ability to negotiate with skill and determination.
UKREP has always been key to all of that. We shall need it more than ever in the years ahead.
As I have argued consistently at every level since June, many opportunities for the UK in the future will derive from the mere fact of having left and being free to take a different path.
But others will depend entirely on the precise shape of deals we can negotiate in the years ahead.
Contrary to the beliefs of some, free trade does not just happen when it is not thwarted by authorities: increasing market access to other markets and consumer choice in our own, depends on the deals, multilateral, plurilateral and bilateral that we strike, and the terms that we agree.
I shall advise my successor to continue to make these points.
Meanwhile, I would urge you all to stick with it, to keep on working at intensifying your links with opposite numbers in DEXEU [Department for Exiting the EU] and line ministries and to keep on contributing your expertise to the policy-making process as negotiating objectives get drawn up.
The famed UKREP combination of immense creativity with realism ground in negotiating experience, is needed more than ever right now.
On a personal level, leaving UKREP will be a tremendous wrench. I have had the great good fortune, and the immense privilege, in my civil service career, to have held some really interesting and challenging roles: to have served four successive UK prime ministers very closely; to have been EU, G20 and G8 Sherpa; to have chaired a G8 Presidency and to have taken part in some of the most fraught, and fascinating, EU negotiations of the last 25 years - in areas from tax, to the MFF to the renegotiation.
Of all of these posts, I have enjoyed being the Permanent Representative more than any other I have ever held.
That is, overwhelmingly, because of all of you and what you all make UKREP: a supremely professional place, with a fantastic co-operative culture, which brings together talented people whether locally employed or UK-based and uniquely brings together people from the home civil service with those from the Foreign Office.
UKREP sets itself demanding standards, but people also take the time to support each other which also helps make it an amazingly fun and stimulating place to work.
I am grateful for everything you have all done over the last few years to make this such a fantastic operation.
For my part, I hope that in my day-to-day dealings with you I have demonstrated the values which I have always espoused as a public servant.
I hope you will continue to challenge ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking and that you will never be afraid to speak the truth to those in power.
I hope that you will support each other in those difficult moments where you have to deliver messages that are disagreeable to those who need to hear them.
I hope that you will continue to be interested in the views of others, even where you disagree with them, and in understanding why others act and think in the way that they do.
I hope that you will always provide the best advice and counsel you can to the politicians that our people have elected, and be proud of the essential role we play in the service of a great democracy.
Ivan
Sounds like the sort of boss I'd welcome anywhere and the sort of person I would want on my side during any negotiations. I assume as seems to be the case honesty is not welcome during this period of great political uncertainty and as already established experts are not welcome.
However Brexit want to spin it we are not in the stronger position. If you are struggling to work that out find 27 people (maybe even 27 people much worse off than you) and see if you can convince them to help you more than you are willing to help them.
I hope you will continue to challenge ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking and that you will never be afraid to speak the truth to those in power.
I wonder who this is directed at????????
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Meanwhile Boris sets his priorities :
nothing else is happening right now in the world where the UK foreign secretary could be more useful .
Mr Johnson said: “It seems to mean anything from dodgems to Segways to scooters to your granny’s motorised bath-chair.“This kiddie quad bike insurance law is a perfect example of both the over-regulation that has sapped the competitiveness of the EU and burdened it with low growth and high unemployment, and the judicial activism of the ECJ.
Honestly making sure that the kids quad bike has some sort of insurance when it's in a situation where it can run into others etc. (like kids mates or siblings) and do some serious life altering damage seems resona ble to me.
Why is it when people start ranting about this stuff the EU seems more and more resonable. I guess this is why they want to dispense with the pesky courts and parliament.
I think those Ministers and MPs who are hard quick Brexiteers, are afraid that the longer the negotiations take, the more likely it is that the national and political momentum will turn against Brexit and eventually stop it.
Theresa May strikes me as much more of a pragmatist than a conviction politician. After so many years honing her political skills and judgement in opposition and then in the invariably politically difficult role of Home Secretary, she is now probably playing a long waiting game.
She has given Johnson, Davies and Fox the key ministeries in Brexit negotiations. If they succeed in the negotiations and deliver a deal that is generally considered a good one for the UK, then she will get much of the political credit for it.
However, if the wheels start to come off the Brexit wagon over the next couple of years and there were a major shift in national sentiment against Brexit, then I expect she will have no qualms about acting decisively to change course or even cancel Article 50. She would not do this unless she were very confident of winning over the great majority of the Conservative Party MPs, and their views would be heavily influenced by their vulnerability to losing their seat in the next election and the liklihood of the Conservatives not winning a majority in Parliament.
So, for those hoping to see Brexit fail, things would probably have to get quite bad before Theresa May would or could act. If it did happen, then I expect she would be ruthless in seeking to destroy the hardcore Brexiteers in her Cabinet and party, to prevent the sort of trouble that John Major endured from his 'b*****ds'. Ironically, it would give Boris Johnson the perfect opportunity to emulate his hero, Churchill, by switching sides again ("anyone can rat, but it takes a certain ingenuity to re-rat").
This is all probably very unlikely to happen, but I note that Sterling still has not recovered, and that is going to have inevitable impacts in the next couple of years, with a General Election looming on the horizon.
@slow we' e waited 40 years to get another say on the EU. Trust me we are not going to change our minds. Ontop of this I believe the EU is going to enter a major crises in the next 2 years amd getting out is going to look very smart to most Remainers too.
I am not worried about the course of the negotiations as we know the EU is going to be a shambles and it will only be a matter of time before the 27 start breaking ranks (we've already had the Parliame t and Commission arguing over who is in charge). Merkel is in all sorts of trouble over the migrant crises and the prospective economic shock of tariffs on German cars will weigh very heavily in the run up to German General Election in autumn 2017. In the event of a Le Pen victory in France who knows what will happen ? The EU is going to have to deal with Trump too.
Our focus should be global, I think the EU isn't worth a lot of time and effort.
To be fair on Jamby, France and Germany have pretty much been arseholes to us since the closet fascist De Gaulle decided he didn't like us. My head drove my remain vote, but there is definitely a part of me that resents the EU's political landscape.
[quote=jambalaya ]@slow we' e waited 40 years to get another say on the EU. Trust me we are not going to change our minds.
You might not, because it seems your motivations are down to the EU stifling traders by regulating them. However you do seem to keep [s]denying[/s] forgetting who you are in bed with - not only all the racists and bigots who are also unlikely to change their minds because they're too stupid to do so, but also a lot of ordinary people who believed all the lies and some of whom will start to realise it's not all going to be wonderful. We were after all already there months ago and it's only going to go one way: http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-vote-regret-leave-margin-victory-2016-10
As I've mentioned several times, I'm with Tom and also many others who deeply dislike the EU bureaucracy, but accept that even so we're still better off being a part of that.
To be fair on Jamby, France and Germany have pretty much been arseholes to us since the closet fascist De Gaulle decided he didn't like us.
Whereas the UK has always been the consumate neighbour? Blaming all the failings of the relationship on the other side is rarely true. Despite all of that we have managed to build a rail tunnel with the French, A380's with a big european consortium and the Eurofighter. Plenty of success in there.
Our focus should be global, I think the EU isn't worth a lot of time and effort.
and the classic line...
Our future should be global, that includes the EU as it's a significant part of the world. We have given up the position of a strong negotiating block in favour of sailing on our own.
Trust me we are not going to change our minds.
It's this kind of deluded thinking done with her total confidence that really worries me. You do not speak for all leave voters, never have, never will.
Tom launches an attack on Germany, France and de Gaulle but forgets to check what they actually had to say and forgets that it was GB that didn't want to be in the Common Market before changing it's mind and wanting in but on it's own conditions - nothing has changed there. So as we're into huge quotes on this thread, De Gaulle:
«La Grande-Bretagne a posé sa candidature au Marché Commun. Elle l'a fait après s'être naguère refusée à participer à la Communauté qu'on était en train de bâtir. Et puis ensuite après avoir créé une zone de libre échange avec six autres Etats, et puis enfin après avoir, je peux bien le dire, on se rappelle les négociations qui ont été menées si longuement à ce sujet, après avoir fait quelques pressions sur les six, pour empêcher que ne commence réellement l'application du marché commun. Enfin l'Angleterre a demandé à son tour à y entrer mais suivant ses propres conditions. Cela pose sans aucun doute à chacun des six Etats et ça pose à l'Angleterre des problèmes d'une très grande dimension.L'Angleterre, en effet elle, est insulaire. Elle est maritime. Elle est liée par ses échanges, ses marchés, ses ravitaillements aux pays les plus divers, et souvent les plus lointains. Elle exerce une activité essentiellement industrielle et commerciale, et très peu agricole. Elle a dans tout son travail des habitudes et des traditions très marquées, très originales. Bref, la nature, la structure qui sont propres à l'Angleterre diffèrent profondément de celle des continentaux.
Comment faire pour que l'Angleterre telle qu'elle vit, telle qu'elle produit, telle qu'elle échange, soit incorporée au Marché commun tel qu'il a été conçu et tel qu'il fonctionne. Par exemple, les moyens par lesquels se nourrit le peuple de la Grande-Bretagne et qui est en fait l'importation de denrées alimentaires achetées à bon marché dans les deux Amériques ou dans les anciens Dominions, tout en donnant, en accordant des subventions considérables aux agriculteurs anglais.
Ce moyen-là est évidemment incompatible avec le système que les six ont établi tout naturellement pour eux-mêmes. Le système des six ça consiste à faire tout avec les produits agricoles de toute la Communauté. A fixer rigoureusement leur prix. A interdire qu'on les subventionne. A organiser leur consommation entre tous les participants. Et à imposer à chacun de ces participants de verser à la Communauté toute économie qu'il ferait en faisant venir du dehors des aliments au lieu de manger ce qu'offre le marché commun. encore une fois, comment faire entrer l'Angleterre telle qu'elle est dans ce système-là.»
There's a history of the EU yielding to the UK's demands (Thatcher, Cameron) yet Britain continues to act as a petulant child. If Article 50 goes in don't expect the same indulgence again.
yet Britain continues to act as a petulant child
That's because we're 'special'
[i]His resignation took Downing Street by surprise, coming some eight months before his job was due to end or be extended.
So the hunt is now on for an envoy who can speak truth to power while retaining the confidence of Downing Street, who knows Brussels but is not seen as being part of Brussels.
Sir Ivan is expected to stay on for a few weeks while such a diplomatic paragon is found.[/I]
I do like the commentary from the BBC on the resignation article, "speak truth to power" 🙂
IDS has predictably launched into 'Enemy of the People' style attack
The comments from brexiters on social media are incredibly abusive towards Rogers and filled with a kind of desperate naiveté, repeating the '[i]they need us, more than we need them[/i]' mantra to try and ward of reality as it closes in on them
The comments from brexiters on social media are incredibly abusive towards Rogers and filled with a kind of desperate naiveté
And in here kimbers, remember if your not a team player please die quietly in your grave filling it in as you leave.
If on the 31st of March, which is less than 90days away so not long, May invokes article 50 and the current level of information isn't massively improved anyone care to place bets on the value of the pound on April 1st??
who knows Brussels but is not seen as being part of Brussels.
Farage is a shoe-in then.
IDS needs a lie down in a quiet dark place if his performance on Radio 4 this morning is anything to go by. Bonkers
IDS needs a lie down in a quiet dark place if his performance on Radio 4 this morning is anything to go by. Bonkers
when your replies are so facile that the host cant surpress their own laughter Id take it as a sign that you are convincing no one
I heard IDS too. They still haven't got beyond "brexit means brexit". Have they literally no idea how many people are worried about their jobs because of this? It seems they are both highly critical of anyone not committed to brexit, yet at the same time, so worried of appearing to fail they dare not state what they are aiming for. This endless nonsensical doublethink continues...
"Hurry up"
"Get on with it"
Etc etc.
Why the big rush, Jamba, what's the hurry? You've "waited 40 years," what's a couple more to ensure that you get what you want in a proper manner that gives us the best possible outcome if and when we leave?
The rights and wrongs of Brexit aside, surely when we're undertaking a hugely complex massive constitutional change to our country which has repercussions across the continent if not globally, [i]surely[/i] the most sensible way to approach it is carefully? If you were building a house you'd want to take the time to do it properly rather than pressuring the builders to throw it up in an afternoon, otherwise it'd probably fall down twelve months later. As my grandad used to say, "measure twice, cut once."
Every time I hear "get on with it" from someone, my viewpoint shifts from "we have differing political views" to "I'm dealing with a f***ing idiot here." It does you no favours.
Kimbers spot on.
Every time I hear "get on with it" from someone, my viewpoint shifts from "we have differing political views" to "I'm dealing with a f***ing idiot here."
+1
+2
It also makes me think that that person hasn't grasped the scale of what they're asking for.
+3
"get on with it"
Shouted loudly during the Meaning of Life IIRC. When your public communication starts to resemble a Monty Python script you probably need to stop and take stock of the situation.
+4
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+5 It's never the one at the front shouting get on with it
+ 5
because the brexopahs know they got the % they did in the referendum on the basis of lies and falsehoods and know are terrified of being found out and are desperate to trigger Art 50 in order that it is then too late for anyone with a grip on reality to do anything about it.
IDS has never given a txss about anyone, he is not going to start now.
And his estate is guaranteed £160000 of grants, Brexit or not.
