A free trade deal with the US will mean having to accept their much lower standard in many areas - like meat production for example. Personally I don't want that.
Wasn't that going to happen to the whole of Europe under TTIP then?
Or are you just making stuff up again?
The EU blocked the TTIP, the UK government wanted to sign it.
The EU blocked the TTIP, the UK government wanted to sign it.
[i]Reports coming out of Brussels and Washington suggest that the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, otherwise known as TTIP, has been crippled, possibly killed, by Brexit.[/i]
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/adam-hamdy/brexit-ttip_b_10728774.html
Yep. Cos the UK were the folks supporting it and once it looked like they were going TTIP died.
[I]Paris mayor is a lefty but she is right that the pollution is due to diesels. [/I]
Due to old badly maintained diesels, usually those owned/run by the various Govt agencies and/or private sector fulfilling public sector contracts.
The EU blocked the TTIP, the UK government wanted to sign it.
Merkel was a big fan too alegedly. EU must have spent €10's if not €100m on it so far. They didn't do that trying to block it
The French in particular had held up signing ttip, without the UK government - who is a big fan of TTIP- pushing for it there no way it would continue, hence why brexit killed it. ( But you knew all that ninfan as I've replied with u similar links to this
[url= http://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-europe-usa-idUSKCN0XG2F7 ]France threatens halt to TTIP talks barring progress in coming months[/url]
[url= http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-g7-summit-cameron-trade-idUKKBN0OM0YE20150607 ]Cameron to vent dismay over EU-U.S. trade deal delay at G7[/url] )
We'll be so desperate for good news post brexit though the UK-US version will be signed quick sharp, of course as a much smaller nation rather than part of the much larger EU, we will have less bargaining power, I hope Fox /Johnson/ Ambassador Farage have read Art of the Deal, coz something tells me Trump will be out to screw everyone over as long as his company does well out of it 😉
The working class/poor of this country over the age of 45 remember the industrial wages of the 70s and 80s, the problem is that they believe this type of employment can return (i know lots of people who really believe this is possible) it has gone and will never return.
Jamba you say that this group of people think they won't be worse off post brexit but it is patently obvious this is going to happen their current quality of life is supported by very cheap goods, food, fuel and low taxation - we are already seeing food, fuel, goods rising in price.
This will be very very divisive and the split is not political or social it's the better educated and skilled not giving a * about the less educated and lower skilled, this disenfranchised group may have won a referendum but they have no representation politically or financially and as this all trundles along they will be abused and used by the wealthy and the rest of us will go "tough * folks" - their future is miserable and Jamba I reckon you know this
Of course Jambalaya knows it - I've asked him on numerous occasions how many job losses his Brexit project is worth and he has never answered.....
Ninfan - it was one of the risks of it yes - but the EU had better negotiating position so could insist on higher standards. ( but we never really knew what it was) We on the other hand will be begging for crumbs so won't be in a position to set conditions.
currently meat produced in the US is illegal to sell (mainly) in the EU because of steroid and antibiotic use
Just noticed this nugget:
any cost would be paid by the rich anyway
I mean, really…? If anyone who isn't "rich" believed this in June, no one will by the time a deal is worked out… reason 271 for Leave campaign people to want to avoid a public vote on the deal.
[quote="b r"]
[i]Paris mayor is a lefty but she is right that the pollution is due to diesels.[/i]
Due to old badly maintained diesels, usually those owned/run by the various Govt agencies and/or private sector fulfilling public sector contracts.
Not up here. Big drive for modern vehicles - council run a fair few electric ones, hybrid buses etc etc
Yup, hybrid buses etc big up here as well… silently pull away from the stop… spooky… not to mention the electric trams. We'd have electric trains by now if people didn't keep voting for people who hate public infastructure investment… cancelled/delayed every time the Conservatives win office; First thing they did once those pesky LibDems were out of the way…
@tj the EU and the U.K. Gov tried to keep all negotiations TTIP secret. If you look at what 38degrees (I presume you are a supporter) managed to reveal you'll see that the EU was about to role over on lots of issues, GM, US beef, access to government/public sector contracts. Also they attempted to keep (the EU) the fact that private companies could secretly sue governments for loss of profit if decisions did not suit the companies commercially.
This would never appen in a Free Yorkshire, we'd tell em. No lad we not avin that. Surprised yer not down ere already bein proper Yorkshireman already.
This will be very very divisive and the split is not political or social it's the better educated and skilled not giving a **** about the less educated and lower skilled,
Hang on, better educated and skilled people voted for a situation that would have benefitted the disenfranchised group. You can't blame the former. The people who voted for a worse situation have only themselves to blame. People have to take responsibility for them own actions occasionally.
this disenfranchised group may have won a referendum but they have no representation politically
How does this work, they have just won a democratic political process and they have UKIP plus half of Labour?
Macron going down well tonight, that's Macron the politician presenting his ideas on TF1 not Mâcon the wine area.
I'm happy to pay taxes on the guitar parts I import from the US. I'd like Google and other US corporations to pay taxes on the money they make in France before taking it out. A Brexit will make that easier rather than more difficult - I'm pleased to see the TTIP flop.
mt - yup - TTIP was a really bad thing - glad it looks to be dead.
Persuade northumberland to be free as well and we could really have everything in the united republics of ancient Northumbria and Scotland
I'd like Google and other US corporations to pay taxes on the money they make in France before taking it out. A Brexit will make that easier rather than more difficult...
Dreamer.
Look at why McDonalds want out of the EU… because they don't want to pay… the UK is lined up to be the new place to hide for US corps… because the EU is after them and the UK is leaving… and happens to have a right wing low corp tax light regulation government… probably for the next decade at least.
TTIP was a really bad thing - glad it looks to be dead.
And you expect the replacement UK/USA trade deal will be better… you are kidding me, right?
Look who will be making the deal, on both sides… you'll be begging for some European safeguards.
Frying pan -> fire.
[i]Not up here. Big drive for modern vehicles - council run a fair few electric ones, hybrid buses etc etc [/I]
Maybe in Edinburgh TJ (obviously the centre of the known world ;-)), but less so further afield - I'm Scotland also.
Kelvin - no I am expecting a us / uk deal to be much worse
probably for the next decade at least.
Who would have predicted a far right/green final in Austria ten years ago? Ten years is a long time in politics. I'm beginning to think Macron has a real chance in France from nothing six months ago. It's the only political meeting where I've seen people waving Euro flags. En Marche, a new centre party in France at a time when the traditional right and left have screwed up in equal measure over the last ten years.
Kelvin - no I am expecting a us / uk deal to be much worse
Hang on… you're not in the UK, are you?
In that case, yes, every trade deal that the EU makes in the next 15 years will be better for France, because the UK doesn't have a say.
I'm SW France, TJ is Scotland.
Macron past might not please everybody though but he does represents change.
And the FN Seems to be more divided than it seems .
Marine and Marion disagreeing over IVG today.
>confused<
Inverness has a fleet of electric buses.b r - Member
Not up here. Big drive for modern vehicles - council run a fair few electric ones, hybrid buses etc etcMaybe in Edinburgh TJ (obviously the centre of the known world ;-)), but less so further afield - I'm Scotland also.
The people who voted for a worse situation have only themselves to blame. People have to take responsibility for them own actions occasionally.
NOT ALL,
i have met a lot of this group and the reason life is s*** is always "their" fault. They refuse to accept that they need to learn to compete, that the world changes etc. Much easier to blame immigrants for taking jobs that they would never have either wanted or have done themeselves.
😉
Paris mayor is a lefty but she is right that the pollution is due to diesels.
What on Earth does being a lefty have to do with that view?
Steering wheel on the left?
Being a lefty (esp French variety) means I would generally disagree with her 🙂 Her road closures have caused more pollution as traffic backs up elsewhere (to the extent mayors of other towns have asked her to reopen them), the alternative reg system is a bit daft as we can go out in my 3+ litre car as its exempt (UK reg) but can't take the wife's Micra. We saw another first today, one of the migrant camps on the grass verge by the Peripherique they where preparing the ground and planting vegetables.
Plenty of hybrid electric busses in London btw plus the 30,000 Uber drivers in Prius
@Nipper I predict a fall in unemployment over the next 12 months. You really should read the Swales report for an insight into Leave voters, two clear groups those in more manual jobs (with lower education levels and likely lower pay) & unemployed plus the more affluent Eurosceptics.
@Edukator whole Macon thing is fascinating. You'd never see an EU flag at a UK rally unkess it was on fire ! Can't say I really understand how he can run in the "left side" primary when he is not a member of any party. He could well beat Valls it seems.
Chief Minister of Gibralter on Marr show today, very keen to see a special arrangement to allow an open border (as per Northern Ireland and Ireland) but 1000% desire to stay totally British with imo a clear willingness to give up an open border if any compromise in Sovereignty was required. Big flow of people both ways every day, 10,000 Spanish work in Gibralter.
@Nipper I predict a fall in unemployment over the next 12 months. You really should read the Swales report for an insight into Leave voters,
Why do you predict unemployment to fall? Currently jobs are being lost a reversal of migration may help but that could be coupled with a return of many ex pats who suddenly have no right to remain.
I understand why a lot of those in lower paid manual work etc and those that had lost it voted leave, it doesn't make them right and it certainly doesn't mean Brexit will fix their problems.
THM the referendum vote will not translate into "first past the post" party elections, this is just simple maths not an opinion.
What do you expect a mass shift to UKIP?
It's a Tory dominated world for some time.
Why do you predict unemployment to fall?
Because my guess is a good as yours ? 😀
UK Expats live in many non-EU countries where they have no permanent right of residence. Spain, Portugal, France and Italy are not going to be sending back relatively wealthy UK expats who as a number of us have pointed out generally live in areas the locals regard as less attractive as there is little work. Each EU country is able to make it's own "visa" policy, the UK is well aware of this and it won't be a negotiation point. Expats will be able to stay the only question will be access to healthcare and whether it's free/recipricol or requires the purchase of an insurance policy.
@Nipper I predict a fall in unemployment over the next 12 months. You really should read the Swales report for an insight into Leave voters, two clear groups those in more manual jobs (with lower education levels and likely lower pay) & unemployed plus the more affluent Eurosceptics.
Ah, you're Mystic Meg and I claim my £5.00 - do you do palm readings aswell, as for the rest well I don't even know what that means - please put up a link to the report.
Because my guess is a good as yours ?
OK guess work then....
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate
UK unemployment is currently near all time low figures, it doesn't get much better than this in terms of the rate.
Spain, Portugal, France and Italy are not going to be sending back relatively wealthy UK expats
Not at all but if they start charging them handsomely for healthcare etc. some may come back and others may just fall victim to a bigger game around freedom of movement - your view is to turn away a group of young healthy people who pay tax etc. into the UK for very little return.
Jobs are already going in science and research, construction could be next and manufacturing isn't that hot except for when it's demanding subsidy.
Not a mass shift, but don't forget that the Tories will get blamed for Brexshit even thought the PM is a remainer but merely executing a promise.
We have "uncontrolled immigration" (sic) and record employment levels. Go figure Brexshiteers!!
@mike you where just as ceratin about the reasons Trump couldn't win. The UK is going to be just fine outside the EU. In fact it's going to propser.
It may prosper despite Brexshit, but we have made it unnecessarily hard to do so
True I got that one wrong, however your just making wild statements, see the facts unemployment is very low already people are losing jobs so it's not going down. The UK's deal outside the EU will be tougher than we currently have at best, very few people who remain as massively confident as you are seem to be able to come up with any good reasons just spin and made up numbers with a constant wish for harm to the EU
EU citizenship. Thought this was interesting. The EU voted to reject the concept of "puchasing" EU citizenship in 2014
What’s more, the Lisbon Treaty of the EU doesn’t allow for any kind of citizenship — associated or otherwise — for citizens of countries who don’t belong to the EU. To wit, the bloc’s de facto constitution states that EU citizenship “shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship” and that to obtain EU citizenship a person must “[hold] the nationality of a Member State….” There are no existing plans to change the treaty.
So basically the starting point will be zero right to remain for Brits abroad and EU citizens, a culling of the seasonaires starting their ski seasons right now and a return to Visa's for all. Progress got to love it.
link to s. sales report Jambalaya?
