So a huge climbdown from a definite position by May is a win, yet Labour continuance of their ( stupid) policy of not opposing exit is seen as a loss.
Its alice in wonderland all over again.
this is the biggest humiliation in parliament to the tories for a long time. To be forced into a 180degree u turn from their position of a week or two ago because of the fact they were facing a backbench rebellion is a humiliation. Remember only a couple of weeks ago Mays position was that she would not reveal her hand at all as it would be hugely damaging to the negotiations.
Nobody disputes that Article 50 won't be triggered, and probably on time.The hard work will start once it is triggered.
I think there are a very large number of people who are trying to stop it being triggered, fortunately very few of them are MPs
Yes agreed. I think the EU is incapable of agreeing much as there is no leadership. It will be up to the more powerful member countries to show the way
A nifty sidestep resulting in Labour scoring a massive own goal 8)
The SNP voted against for domestic political reasons, they are 51 of the 89 votes. Last night was a crushing defeat for Remain.
Labours position is unchanged by this. completely unchanged. No own goal there SNP voted against out of principle. There is no great political advantage for them in this given 30% of snp voters are outies
this is the biggest humiliation in parliament to the tories for a long time
PSA a fact-based alternative assessment is available
A split government reverse sprung a trap and now has a firm commitment. The Labour position is indeed the same - AWOL. The SNP are just inconsistent and in this case irrelevant.
time will tell I guess
I'd say the biggest humiliation was Cameron loosing the referendum itself!
Last night's vote was another step toward brexit, and Little Britain, but there's always hope that disaster can be averted as brexishambles will be exposed to more scrutiny now and hopefully people will see that blaming Brussels for the faults of Westminster will not fix their grievances
70% of Labour MPs sit in constituencies which voted Leave
Oooo… a fact.
The question is… the people who actually voted for those Labour MPs, rather than against them, in those constituencies, which way did they vote as regards the EU? The Labour Party risk losing support if they look pro-Leave just as much (arguably more, if you believe the polls) than if they look to be pro-Remain. Hence… lots of looking busy while doing nothing.
I'll agree with one thing Jamba, Labour are being utterly useless, and May is running rings around them, making them look pointless. She is playing it very well. The only real opposition is on her own benches.
Some great Labour MPs I feel very sorry for.
[i]The hard work will start once it is triggered. [/I]
Nah, that's just 2 years of politicians pissing around (with our money).
The hard work will start once we're out and we've somehow got to recover from the unholy mess we've been put in - even Jamba acknowledges it'll take +10 years.
Plus we'll still be forking out vast sums to pay off our liabilities (Farage's pension for one) and various access fees all while tax revenues have collapsed (10%?) due to the recession and the big corps moving their HO's (back) into the EU.
30% of snp voters are outies
Surely 100% of snp are outies? (Since there's no way they could remain in the EU if they left the Union.)
I'd say the biggest humiliation was Cameron loosing the referendum itself!
+1.
OOB - a different argument but most sane commentators believe that an independent Scotland would simply remain in as the successor state. Plenty of significnt euro politicians back this view ( cue repeat quotes from Barusso a spanish unionist made before the EU vote) After the euro vote the potential position of an independent scotland in the EU changed dramatically
OOB - I think the plan now is England and Wales leave the UK and the remnant UK says in the EU.
Who is humiliated?
All of us. A very bad argument won the day. That was appalling and humiliating for every Remainer (although TM did get the top job, so she probably is an exception). Plus we now realise that our society has strong xenophobic under-currents and is swayed by crass gesture politics and snake oil populism. That is equally humiliating.
But that is nothing when compared to the eventual realisation from the Brexshiteers that the outcome will be a lot worse than the status quo especially for the low-income segments that have been grossly misled. Cranberry sauce anyone?
Beyond that, the ultimate humiliation may yet come to those who want independence but find their leaders frogmarching them into monetary, fiscal and policitical subservience to [s]Frankfurt[/s] Brussels. How crass would that be? Xmas and thanksgiving rolled into one!
Lots can happen before end of March, xmas spending might not be as good as normal will push retailers in the red. Rents to pay, full effect of low pound etc...
Some mps will have brave decision to make.
Beyond that, the ultimate humiliation may yet come to those who want independence but find their leaders frogmarching them into monetary, fiscal and policitical subservience to Frankfurt Brussels.
That could apply to several groups of people. Brexies and SNP for starters.
Not sure about the former, but the latter certainly. They are looking even sillier now, albeit with mitigating circumstances.
"Lots can happen before end of March"
Before the end of March 2019. Assuming there's no extension to kick it further into the long grass.
Fudgable. Easily fudgable.
or Oct 2018?
Maybe it's part of the masterplan...MP's will be able to vote a50 off the table in March, citing there's no good deal on offer (which there won't be), and avoid simply voting it out and going against the referendum result, which they can't be seen to be doing.
Voting to halt a50 due to lack of a good deal on the table is a reasonable position.
mattyfez +1
Tactics are part of it, spook enough of the marginal Brexit places and enough MP's can do what their constituents want. [s]Champagne[/s] Pint of tetleys still on ice and the fat lady not even confirming the booking.
except they have just committed to
"calls on the Government to invoke Article 50 by 31 March 2017."
so if that was the plan (to obstruct the democratic process) they botched that too
Which will require a vote, puts a timetable for a vote so TM can't push it back to wait for better times. She needs the numbers (SC will require it) and at present she probably knows she doesn't have them. This will need a parliamentary vote and most MP's are against.
But that is nothing when compared to the eventual realisation from the Brexshiteers that the outcome will be a lot worse than the status quo especially for the low-income segments that have been grossly misled. Cranberry sauce anyone?
Indeed Hurty. I think you ay see a bit of this business when said ' low-income segments that have been grossly misled' realise by just how much! And realise that they've been conned into allowing the forces of the right a blank cheque to cynically re-write things in order to make their lives considerably worse, and throw society even more out of kilter in favour of the rich and privileged.
A very telling comment the other day from a Tory MP in some committee or other, saying they were working on, post-Brexit .... 'helping business, through planned de-regulation'
I mean, seriously.... what on earth do people think thats going to entail? I think theres a very good reason May and her stooges don't want anyone to know what they're up too. Creating a right wing, neo-liberal uber-capitalist wet dream? Which is definitely NOT what those people voted for. In fact its the polar opposite!
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Wasn't the SC explicit is stating upfront that they were not opining on the rights and wrongs of Brexshit nor on what needs to be presented. They are simply ruling on the issue of whether the gov can exercise royal prerogative or not
neo-liberal wet dream
The EU *is* a neo-liberal wet dream.
Pint of tetleys still on ice and the fat lady not even confirming the booking.
+1 ...and both parties who have to negotiate the booking of the Fat Lady to sing don't like Fat Ladies singing and would much prefer the performance went on indefinitely. Meanwhile the entity who requested the show was in two minds about whether they even wanted to go to the show at all.
They are simply ruling on the issue of whether the gov can exercise royal prerogative or not
and odds are this isn't something that can be done via prerogative hence needing a vote
The EU *is* a neo-liberal wet dream
I suspect that compared to what this lot have got in mind for the future of the UK, the EU will soon be resembling a Corbynist-style socialist utopia
Reality has a liberal bias.
Have you stopped taking your medication?
What is that even supposed to mean? 😯
and odds are this isn't something that can be done via prerogative hence needing a vote
True - and TM should have simply backed down and proceeded with a vote. Instead she almost got caught but then resprung the trap and won that mini-battle last night thanks in part to poor, ineffective opposition*
Either way A50 will be triggered on time now.
* of course there are some, who believe that the gov got a bloody nose last night, but they seem to be in a minority of one
Either way A50 will be triggered on time now
I'm atheist, but I pray to god you are wrong.
Labour always said they would not delay implementing article 50 spineless numpties that they are
Here is an interesting one. I have just been speaking to a chap who owns a house that straddles the NI / ROI border - his front door is in ROI his back door in NI. gonna be a bit tricky to have a hard border there isn't it?
Jezza's on his hollybobs again, isn't he?
I've got a letter here from Bob, who lives in a house on the border.....
as before Jezza is
This weekend I was meeting with other socialist & progressive leaders from Europe to discuss how we'll combat the rise of the populist right
Left it to Thornbury yesterday.
Leadership not in action
Cpn 😀
"This weekend I was meeting with other socialist & progressive leaders from Europe to discuss how we'll combat the rise of the populist right"
Well one way would be to win the support of centrist voters and win an election in the UK...
It's not funny, you know. Thank you, mister speaker..... Bob's concerns are very real.....
This of course is only the first round of legal challenges. I'd like to know how legally my EU passport can be removed from me. Still got years to run.
Here is an interesting one. I have just been speaking to a chap who owns a house that straddles the NI / ROI border - his front door is in ROI his back door in NI. gonna be a bit tricky to have a hard border there isn't it?
Tax haven! Is he looking for a lodger? I'm very clean and never have late night parties.
Good to see Boris is doing a great job with the UK future trading partners.
But as always, his views do not represent the UK government position?
And we should be trusting them with Brexit!
Good to see Boris is doing a great job with the UK future trading partners.
because trade is more important than anything else ??
Judging by the meetings our glorious leader had with a selection of mass-murdering dictators yesterday, in order to sell them more arms, to make the task easier.... yes
