Freedom of movement on the scale we are seeing it is unsustainable, the EU is going to have to reform.
Maybe so - but I doubt that even the EU will be cruel enough to forbid a woman to live in the same country as her national(*) husband and national child
(*) by which I mean national of the country that the wife/mother is forbidden to immigrate to.
Freedom of movement on the scale we are seeing it is unsustainable
Why?
Freedom of movement on the scale we are seeing it is unsustainable
Unemployment down, total employed up. Doesn't look unsustainable to me. If anything, it looks essential to a prosperous UK...
Now, there might well be an argument about the sustainability of the countries that are being left by these people. That does cause damage.
Rachel
Someone needs to tell that prize **** Jacob "I want the 50's back" Rees-Mogg that a majority in the referendum is not a majority of the country it's not even close you clown.
A majority in the referendum is not a majority of the country it's not even close you clown.
Im not entirely clear what you are suggesting - do you mean that we should have never been in the EU, given that the 1975 EEC referendum did not command not a majority of the country?
Im not entirely clear what you are suggesting - do you mean that we should have never been in the EU, given that the 1975 EEC referendum did not command not a majority of the country?
no just that mogg is misusing statitics coz his candidate lost, he should just get over it and stop bremoaning 😛
[quote=mrmo ]boardin bob, i meant to say scottish westminster parliament. 56 SNP may not accurately reflect Scotland.
But in the General Election, the SNP got 50% of the Scottish vote, and a bungload of seats.
The Conservative party got 36.9% of the popular vote across the UK
They got 37.8% of the popular vote in England
They got 40.7% of the popular vote in England, Wales and NI combined
So in actual fact, based on the popular vote, the SNP are far better placed to represent the people of Scotland in Westminster, than the Conservative party are placed to represent England or the rest of the UK including or excluding Scotland.
And I'm not even an SNP voter!
@allthegear - well that's what he said and unemployment etc are dire in France, Spain and Italy for example. The countries being left are getting money sent home in most cases. I wonder how much money the 1m Poles put back into their homeland £1bn a year ? £5bn ?
[i]I wonder how much money the 1m Poles put back into their homeland £1bn a year ? £5bn ? [/I]
Why is this a problem? If they want to live cheap and send home money, they're doing as migrant workers have done over the centuries - and I'm pretty sure when you were an expat you did exactly the same?
£350m a week surely.
But whatever the true amount is per person, I certainly transferred a shedload more back to the UK when I worked abroad as an economic migrant.
@allthegear - well that's what he said and unemployment etc are dire in France, Spain and Italy for example. The countries being left are getting money sent home in most cases. I wonder how much money the 1m Poles put back into their homeland £1bn a year ? £5bn ?
Can't be that bad in Spain as there are a fair few Spanish over here, at times I can't turn around for Spanish being spoken. Probably more money coming in to pay tuition than the barista is sending home, I imagine. I don't think you understand the fundamental priciples of the EU, do you? The money whether sent to Spain, Italy or Poland is staying in Europe. We are part of Europe. It is not leaving us as you think? We can apply the same thinking to people who work in London and living outside the capital or sending money home.
And one last kick in the balls of the stupidly designed British plug and attitude that still thinks it's the greatest.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Shutters on the socket that cannot be opened without a plug being inserted. As the video above showed, there is a way to open the shuuter thusly exposing a live element, this can't happen with the Europlug.
They have the added bonus of not leaving prongs upwardly for you to stand on.
Got to be worth a Brucie Bonus, no?
Ok I'm sorry I mentioned plugs.
I just meant, of course we would go with whatever standard supports CE - until the next rewrite of that standard that ignores British variations because we're not in the euro standards team anymore. Then we look sheepishly round for a standard that does include our variations and find there isn't one.
But the Germans love our plugs 🙂
b r no problem at all sending money home (although ideally I'd rather it was spent in the UK economy) it was more a comment about the importance of Poles working in the UK to the domestic Polish economy.
We did do plugs before but that's STW .... @welsh 🙂
From the Mash 😀
THE shock Richmond byelection result might be related to calling half of UK voters losers who should shut their traitor mouths forever, Conservative sources believe.Right-wing thinktanks have hypothesised a link between treating 48 per cent of voters like scum who deserve only contempt and those same voters switching their political allegiance.
A Downing Street source said: “Theresa couldn’t be more shocked. That these radical dissenter bastards for some reason don’t like having their views comprehensively disregarded is something nobody expected.
“They are whining sore losers who deserve whatever Brexit we decide to give them, that’s fact, but in this post-truth politics era they’ve unaccountably reacted against that.
“We don’t understand it. When Cameron called them all fat, lazy bastards who were getting austerity because they’d sucked on the state tit for too damn long they were fine with it.”
May said: “How dare they deny the will of the British people? The good, correct British people, that is.”
Germany wants to charge foreigners for using it's motorways including EU citizens
Sorry Junkyard, I wasn't trying to be fatuous. Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought you were hinting that without moderation this forum would contain similar hate messages. That surprised me as although there are some robust arguments here, contributors seem pretty decent folk.
Cameron was quite clear, just one Referendum, the people decide not politicans or Parliament
Cameron? Who's that?
What is Italy's Referendum Really About ? Newsnight
The results of Austria's Presidential re-run may not be known till Thursday
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labelling-half-the-country-whingeing-remoaner-****s-not-politically-popular-discovers-may-20161202118358 ]Absolutely brilliant from the Mash[/url]
😆
The scary thing about the mash now is that it is so close to reality it's starting to lose the parody and comedy side
Ho ho and all that but it is the Remainers who are doing all the whinging, in fact it's gone beyond whinging. As for popularity the Tories will be pretty happy with where they are now.
It's really not, look at comments made when ever an aspect of Brexit is questioned. On the facebook page you linked to yesterday, for example, someone said the any politician questioning Brexit should be charged with 'treason against democracy'. Whatever the fudge that is.
Nearly half of those who voted are against it. It's right and correct to question it. Get over yourself.
It's way beyond questioning it. Look at the posts on here, here are the majority of the insults and name calling coming from ?
And in the real world the death threats are coming from Brexitiers.
But seriously, if there was actually an answer maybe we'd stop questioning. Instead the government appeals a high court ruling and tells the supreme court they should take into account the vote (why? The outcome of the vote has no bearing on the legality of triggering A50 without parliamentary consent), the leavers in the cabinet are changing their minds every other day while downing street says don't listen to them.
If this isn't the time to press for answers, when is?
What Lifer just said and the fact that the promises made during the Leave campaign are not very to happen anytime soon. Do you do to be reminded again of that red bus? And what did it say on its side?
Look at the posts on here, here are the majority of the insults and name calling coming from ?
Whinging? Insults? Name-calling? Oh diddums. Has Jammers got all hurty feelings? Well boo *ing hoo
Meanwhile, coming from the other side....
[img] 
?w=400[/img]
Nothing sinister at all about stuff like this, is there?
With its thinly veiled overtones of fascism, and the implied violence that goes with that?
The point in the Mash is well made. 48% of the population now don't have their views represented by any of the main political parties. We can discount the labour party for the utter shambles it is, but the Tory's are now looking increasingly rabid, and racist, and flirting with some really unpleasant sentiments and ideology.Add to that the obvious incompetence of those in charge. In short: they're looking *ing unhinged!
The lib dems have just figured out (not that its taken much figuring) that most people, no matter which way they voted in the referendum, aren't rabid, foaming at the mouth, racist loons, and are now, justifiably very, very worried about the direction this is all taking by the bunch of clowns at the helm.
By offering an alternative on the most important issue of the day, the lib dems will hoover up a massive amount of votes. And the Tories now know that!
You can discount the by-election result all you like, but you can bet your house on the fact that its spooked TM enough for her to immediately jettison any ideas she was having of calling an early election.
We've discussed the bus at length cchris
The Government have been clear with the plan, the Remianers don't like the answer
A50 by end of March
We will negotiate the best deal and we won't provide a running commentary
We respect the vote
The people voted for ending control of ecj and to control immigration ending free movement.
What this means is if the EU won't agree complete free trade without freedom of movement we'll go custom deal or WTO - that's my interpretation. It's a simple scenario to understand
The point in the Mash is well made. 48% of the population now don't have their views represented by any of the main political parties
Lib Dems ?
Time for a new political party then committed to taking us back into the EU after 2020. UKIP in reverse, they started a movement from nothing so "Rejoin and Rejoice at the European High Altar" can do the same. Simple. Good luck with that btw
The Govenrment is competent and the public agree, the Tories have a massive lead. We have a situation where remain clickbait newstories are clouding the reality of public opinion.
Except it's just guess work.
You don't get it, that's very clear. If 'leave is leave' is good enough for you, crack on. The actual details affect me though, that's why I want to know.
What's it like, being you?
I've never been anyone else so I can't make a comparison 🙂
Lifer the details affect me too, massively. However they can't be known now. It's just not possible.
To me, it all looks very...
and makes about as much sense
And then you have Boris Johnson stumbling about saying he [b]supports[/b] freedom of movement.
I can't decide if this is Boris being likably honest or just a two-faced buffoon. The latter I suspect.
jambalaya - Member
Lifer the details affect me too, massively. However they can't be known now. It's just not possible
So you admit your argument is based on nothing but an ideological position against the EU. At last.
That's not unreasonable though Lifer.
Plenty of Remainers (including me) have expressed their ideological driven reasons for staying in (better together, peaceful Europe etc)
But we know what it's like in the EU.
Anything else, as Jamba says, is just not possible to know.
Time for a new political party then committed to taking us back into the EU after 2020. Simple. Good luck with that btw
So we leave now and even with the best negotiators in the world (ha ha ha) we will get a worse deal from the EU than we have now. And if we rejoin we will never get what we had before (now). You'll have to forgive me if I can't see where the positives in this are.
The Govenrment is competent and the public agree, the Tories have a massive lead. We have a situation where remain clickbait newstories are clouding the reality of public opinion.
I suspect that this is observation bias. From where I'm sat the popular (populist) media are still firmly asserting that the EU causes cancer, killed Diana, takes all of our money and all they do in return is actively load raping, benefit pinching ,murdering, workshy, job stealing migrants onto boats and propel then to our shores and that anyone who holds a different view is committing treason. Claiming that "clickbait" is a remainer phenomenon is ridiculous given the headlines of the Sun/Mail/Express/Telegraph etc. which bear no relation to fact and are pure click/read bait. I'm still frankly ashamed that I live in a country where this can happen without challenge being heard, people believe it "because it said so in the papers" and that any reasoned debate is killed before it can start or polluted by opinion over fact to the point of irellevance.
The reports of the government policy (not their populist soundbites provided by mainstream front page media) do not inspire me with confidence that they have the first clue about what they are doing or that they care about national division. They just want power, same as ever, it is just that this seasons battle ground is the EU with the biggest weapon in the armoury being populism.
I know we have discussed the bus at length, and we all agreed it was bullshxt .
And now the future of a country and it's population is being built above that bullshxt and you expect people to keep quiet!
I don't think so.
But we know what it's like in the EU.
No one can see the future, the dire Remainers predictions have shown that. We don't know what the EU will look like in 2 or 5 years. How the eurozone crises will play out. All we can do is make a prediction, a guess. Also what a very large number of people know is that the EU is cr@p, even the Remain camoaign said it needed to be reformed.
@Shakleton noted, however many people told us we had to be in the euro so the great new Rejoin and Rejoice Party will be able to resurect that argument, we can make a genuine success of our membership by signing up to the full month, the real thing.
John Redwood just published this. It's one view. It talks about our choices. Summary in weblink below and full 40 page doc linked.
http://www.politeia.co.uk/prosperity-not-austerity-britains-new-economy-john-redwood-mp/
John Redwood just published this. It's one view. It talks about our choices.
Our maybe potential choices. So 40 pages of pie in the sky, after all it's just not possible to know!
When you're quoting John Redwood, then you've lost the argument already.
It terrifies me that we now live in an age where anybody is attaching any credibility to his unhinged rambling. But then look who else is at the helm nowadays. All second or third rate irrelevancies who've been dragged out of the dustbin of history to try and cobble together something from this almighty cluster****! because nobody with anything between their ears will touch it with a bargepole
🙂
So you admit your argument is based on nothing but an ideological position against the EU. At last.
I have listed my objections many many times to the point of boredom of eveyone here I am sure. Political Unuon absolutely not (a position of principal), economic co-operation yes but without a budget confribution or freedom of movement.
Binners like it or not the eurosceptics have been proven totally correct and have won the day politically.
