[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Notre Dame des Landes was originally conceived for Concorde yet that's still going ahead. The really are shix.

Fillon hasn't won yet and this week he's put himself firmly in the Catho' Manif pour Tous camp so we'll have to wait until Sunday and see if La France humaniste can be bothered to try and stop him. On EU policy Fillon and Juppé are bonnet blanc, blanc bonnet. Bleu Marine on the other hand... .

in short, the complete opposite of what they promised to the disaffected working classes who turned out to vote for this pack of lies.

Statment of the bleedin' obvious 🙁

in short, the complete opposite of what they promised to the disaffected working classes who turned out to vote for this pack of lies.

They;

1) didn't give a tOss whther it was 350, 200 or any other number per week - anything above zero they thought a waste of money
2) had already made their mind up about immigration and control issues (see Tory manifesto pledges and Labour "Immigration" mug)

The Leave campaign tapped into what was already there, we just pursueded some people Brexit would not be the Armageddon IMF/Cameron/Osbourne said it would be.

1) didn't give a tOss whther it was 350, 200 or any other number per week - anything above zero they thought a waste of money
2) had already made their mind up about immigration and control issues (see Tory manifesto pledges and Labour "Immigration" mug)

1) but the leave campaign led people to believe that we would pay nothing rather than paying in other ways (and the projected 5 years has us paying more overall) They were quite happy not to mention that.
2) Difficult to get a message across to racists (they don't want facts and don't care as long as there are less foreigners here), but the leave campaign just played to them and lied about the impact of immigration without mentioning that without millions of immigrants the country would clearly suffer.

Exactly why there should have been no leave/remain campaigns and only objective fact based information should have been issued. Won't stop the racists but may make the less enthusiastic mild racist think a bit.

Sadly if Brexit happens, the UK will be left out.

EU had a very good chance to offer the UK something meaningful but they pushed back heavily on Cameron, he came back with absolutely nothing, the EU took a punt on Remain and they lost. It wasn't surprising as they have eyes only for fhe Superstate.

Kerley 52% voted Leave they where not all racists, the marginal voter certainky wasn't racist. Being concerned about a system of immigration which does not exist anywhere else in the world is not racist.

. Being concerned about a system of immigration which does not exist anywhere else in the world is not racist

Indeed but blaming and demonising immigratnts for the failings of our own government is.

Kerley 52% voted Leave they where not all racists, the marginal voter certainky wasn't racist. Being concerned about a system of immigration which does not exist anywhere else in the world is not racist.

Do you not think that 40 years of lies in certain sections of the media might have coloured the opinions of many voters. Particularly as is clear Westminster politicians are incompetent. Where are the politicians arguing against NHS changes, against the collapse in local social care, against the communications data bill etc etc. Why is it that trains are more expensive and less efficient than most of europe, where are the plans to deal with air pollution, to deal with the poor educational attainment of many. etc etc. And the last thing that westminster politicians were ever going to say is we're crap, all those things we blamed on Brussels well they were our fault.

and the 52%, 26% of the population is not a mandate to screw the lives of everyone.

No,the UK took a punt on Leave and everybody will loose.

[url= http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/business-investment-boosts-gdp-growth-after-brexit-vote-w5tvxl3z9 ]http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/business-investment-boosts-gdp-growth-after-brexit-vote-w5tvxl3z9[/url]

A surprise rise in business investment since the vote to leave the EU combined with robust consumer spending and exports drove economic growth in the third quarter, official figures have shown.

The Office for National Statistics confirmed that the economy grew by 0.5 per cent in the three months to September compared with the previous quarter, with the largest contribution coming from net trade.

Business investment grew by 0.9 per cent quarter-on-quarter, defying expectations from economists that it would fall by 1 per cent in the three months after the Brexit vote over fears that companies would defer or cancel investment plans due to economic uncertainty

[url= http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/articles/the_reply_a_c_grayling_got_when_he_wrote_to_parliament_and_how_he_reacted_1_4789695?=kok ]http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/articles/the_reply_a_c_grayling_got_when_he_wrote_to_parliament_and_how_he_reacted_1_4789695?=kok[/url]

jambalaya - Member

Kerley 52% voted Leave they where not all racists, the marginal voter certainky wasn't racist.

You are correct, but I would be surprised if > 1% of the voters were racist. A 1% swing from would have resulted in a different result. So it is quite possible that racists swung the vote.

Interesting cranberry so what you are saying is that whilst in the EU our economy is doing well, not growing as fast as before the vote, but still well.
Why are we leaving then ?

and just to incite Godwin, most Germans didn't vote for the extermination of the Jews, but it still happened. If you're going to vote with right wing nut jobs you better be f***ing clear on how you are going to keep them under control.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/business-investment-boosts-gdp-growth-after-brexit-vote-w5tvxl3z9

A surprise rise in business investment since the vote to leave the EU combined with robust consumer spending and exports drove economic growth in the third quarter, official figures have shown.
The Office for National Statistics confirmed that the economy grew by 0.5 per cent in the three months to September compared with the previous quarter, with the largest contribution coming from net trade.

Business investment grew by 0.9 per cent quarter-on-quarter, defying expectations from economists that it would fall by 1 per cent in the three months after the Brexit vote over fears that companies would defer or cancel investment plans due to economic uncertainty

Well, sort of. You missed this bit:

It is the huge services sector that kept the economy growing. Services increased by 0.8%, driven by a continued strong performance on the British High Street as sales continue to boom. [b]But all the others sectors of the economy, manufacturing, agriculture and construction, are contracting.[/b]

Not great news for the manual/unskilled labour sector of our economy and those involved. Many of whom, from what I remember, voted leave. Quotes on the radio from business owners/leaders indicates that many of those investments were likely already committed to. We are not yet in the realms of finding out what the brexit vote means economically but Nissan, and Jaguar LandRover today, may be an indication of things to come in terms of shakedowns of the government by industry.

Surveys of shoppers indicate that they are buying now ahead of price rises next year............

So it is quite possible that racists swung the vote.

the racists were certainly enthusiastic about Brexit

Thomas Mair took all the hate and fear peddeled by Vote Leave and the right wing press to heart (the daily mail still burried the story of his conviction yesterday when they got to it on page 30 they claimed he was afraid of loosing his home to immigrants !)
[img] [/img]

Nigel is so concerned that hes cancelled the march on the high court because the EDL, Britain 1st, BNP etc are planning to turn out in force

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pro-brexit-march-supreme-court-led-by-nigel-farage-postponed-1593471

As much as his ego would adore his fans lauding him with a rousing [b]Heil Farage[/b] chant, even he knows itd be bad for PR
https://www.channel4.com/news/nigel-farage-ukip-letter-school-concerns-racism-fascism

he daily mail still burried the story of his conviction yesterday when they got to it on page 30 they claimed he was afraid of loosing his home to immigrants !)

Then again they did support the brownshirts and I guess such hatred lies deep

Could it be that he cancelled the March because only 100 people turned up in the week?
Bit worried to be embarrassed.

The likeness is staggering..

[img] [/img]

http://euromove.org.uk/we-need-your-support/join-the-european-movement/

Zippy fans ofvthe EU have had years to make their case and most importantly from May 2015 till June 2016 when it was clear there would be a Referendum. That's all too little too late.

Now we are going in a new and much brighter direction

https://www.changebritain.org

http://brexitcentral.com

Worried?

TMH it affects us much more directly if we are still a member,

Except that you and I know that this is UNTRUE. Non-EZ members have NO liability to the EZ, this is legislates against and confirmed in CMD negotiations. It is simple scaremongering. As in the past, if we CHOSE to fund any EZ member this would be on a fully collateralised basis.

we will be dragged into reacues and recovery budgets and our budget contribution is calculated in part by a relative ecomomic strength so that wouod jump up again too.

As above, plus we are likely to be dragged in via IMF anyway. So to repeat, what does this have to do Brexshit. NOTHING.

We need to take the bumps in the road and refocus away from the EU.

we were doing that already, its now harder 😯

Worried?

About the future of Europe, yes very much so. Greece is the tip of a very large financial iceberg and it's going to get far worse for them and many others.

It is ok THM, following the ruling on British ski instructors, Jambalaya is now a pro freedom of movement for work.

Non-EZ members have NO liability to the EZ,

However, as you well know, the EU broke their own rules to allow the EFSM to aid Greece last year, so can you give me a guarantee that the EU won't somehow break or rewrite the rules again to drag us in to their mess? No, of course you can't - the only way to guarantee that is to leave.

Non-EZ members have NO liability to the EZ,
However, as you well know, the EU broke their own rules to allow the EFSM to aid Greece last year, so can you give me a guarantee that the EU won't somehow break or rewrite the rules again to drag us in to their mess? No, of course you can't - the only way to guarantee that is to leave.

Yes, we can guarantee that because we currently a) have a veto, b) could just leave then if they did.

Yes, we can guarantee that because we currently a) have a veto,

b) could just leave then if they did.

sorry, the fact that you used the word 'currently' shows the fallacy of your point, the EFSM was created by QM vote (well, technically using article 122) so we did not have a veto on its creation or use, only after we kicked up a fuss last year were the rules changed to ensure we would be excluded in the future - but as we have seen, rules change all the time, and there is nothing stopping the creation of a new scheme by QM that dragged us into the mess again

The limits on the budget of the EU, aka the multiannual financial framework (MFF), is one of the items which still requires unanimity rather than QM vote.

So while they could juggle around the existing budget to 'create some new scheme', it couldn't expose us to any more financial risk or increased contribution without us agreeing to it.

However, as you well know, the EU broke their own rules to allow the EFSM to aid Greece last year, so can you give me a guarantee that the EU won't somehow break or rewrite the rules again to drag us in to their mess? No, of course you can't - the only way to guarantee that is to leave.

Tell me about any UK involvement here? Was there any? Yes or no? If yes, under what conditions? I yes ^2 did we get repaid? If no, what is the point you are making?

as much as I enjoy pointing out the errors in brexiter logic on other threads and the offer of EU citizenship-lite for 100quid a pop pleases me greatly

lets just stick to one

so things are proceeding as you might expect..........

Nissan have been promised compensation that the government are desperate to keep secret.
Trump is dictating our ambassadorial appointments (lets face it if he offered a free trade deal we'd do what he asked- look at Moggy et al paying homage at farage's ferrero roche ball) , parliament are hamstrung by the courts because the promised referendum was not binding.
Now [s]Tata Group[/s] Jaguar landrover are demanding preferential visa access for their employees and millions in investment from the government, in exchange for a new factory.

#fakecontrol

But Kimbers the jaguar story is a Brexit boost (I think that's like a Cadbury's boost, but made by Brexit). I know because the Express told me. 😉

Now Tata Group Jaguar landrover are demanding preferential visa access for their employees and millions in investment from the government, in exchange for a new factory.

Which EU country do they come from? Or is the reality they need visa's now?

And is the investment possible due to EU state aid rules falling away post Brexit?

BnD - more that they've got us over a barrel and they know it.

Which EU country do they come from? Or is the reality they need visa's now?

well like all international companies they want the best employees, so any country really

And is the investment possible due to EU state aid rules falling away post Brexit?

"in order to make the batteries and cars we need the power supply, which there is a shortage of in this area".

- not according the the european comission?
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1782_en.htm

Even if infrastructure is built with the help of State aid, there is no aid to its operator and users if they pay a market price. When infrastructure is built with public financing that involves State aid in line with EU rules, public authorities need to make sure that such aid is not passed on to the operator or users of this infrastructure. The Notice clarifies that this is the case, if an operator or user pays a market price to use the infrastructure in question, for instance as a result of a competitive, transparent, non-discriminatory and unconditional tender.

Kimber's as far as we know Nissan have been told we are committed to tariff free trade (commitment cost is zero, its only words) they may have have been promised compensation if tariffs make their cost of production higher but £ is already lower than cost of any tariffs so if that persists cost is zero (note in the event there are tariffs on cars the UK will be ££££ in so we can easily subsidise). I would be very surprised if anything substantial was firm in writing so we can back out when we want - we can make a cost / benefit decision about wether it's worth paying at the time (not before 2019)

Republican Head of the Senate Paul Ryan said he wants the Trump government to prioritise a trade deal with the UK to reflect our relationship. Remember EU hates the US and the reverse is true also.

Tata are "demanding" eh ? Big talk, they are not going to uproot their entire business (at a staggering cost) and a Jaguar built in XYZ isn't a British car is it ? Nissan is/was a different story, no one care whether a Japanese brand car is built in Sunderland or Seville and they already have multiple European factories.

Republican Head of the Senate Paul Ryan said he wants the Trump government to prioritise a trade deal with the UK to reflect our relationship. Remember EU hates the US and the reverse is true also.

Tata are "demanding" eh ? Big talk, they are not going to uproot their entire business (at a staggering cost) and a Jaguar built in XYZ isn't a British car is it ?

Republican Head of the Senate Paul Ryan said he wants the Trump government to prioritise a trade deal with the UK to reflect our relationship.

Republican soon to be head of the country Trump wants farage to be our ambassador, will that be a condition?

Republican Head of the Senate Paul Ryan said he wants the Trump government to prioritise a trade deal with the UK to reflect our relationship

Republican soon to be head of the country Trump wants farage to be our ambassador, will that be a condition?

I do hope so, if nothing else just to wind up all the bitter and petty minded remainders.

You see, you could have taken the potential of a trade deal with the US as a bloody great, really positive thing for our country - genuinely great for trade and industry, and undoubtedly given our shared language and history, science and education too, but no, instead you chose to turn it into a whinge about the bloke who led the campaign for years to leave the EU, and to whom you lost fair and square (Farage not even being in on the £350m thing) - so, you know what, I hope that he gets the job just to rub your petty, isolationist, sore-loser noses in it.

ninfan - Member

so, you know what, I hope that he gets the job just to rub your petty, isolationist, sore-loser noses in it.

That's the spirit- he's spectacularly ill suited to it, he's completely in bed with Trump, and firing the current ambassador to bring him in would be a total capitulation right at the start of trade talks. Bonzer. But hey, as long as it annoys some remainers it's all good.

Incidentally, I don't think "isolationist" means what you think it means.

he's spectacularly ill suited to it,

This from a Corbyn supporter 😆

isolationist?? Wants to be part of the EU, part of a world economy, part of the EU-World trading deals??

[i]isolationist
noun
1.
a person who favors or works for isolationism.
adjective
2.
of, relating to, or characteristic of isolationists or isolationism :

isolationism
noun
1.
the policy or doctrine of isolating one's country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one's country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities.[/i]

ninfan - Member

This from a Corbyn supporter

Uh, no. But carry on, you're on a roll