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Marine Le Pen has removed Frexit from her political agenda. What do you think of that, Jamba?
So I can vote for a Highly pro-EU candidate who will act in Europe and France's interest or an EU-neutral candidate who will act in France's interest. Any hope of an exit-ally on the European mainland just evaporated.
Any sauce for that Ed? Interested.
She's said she'll put DuPont-Aignon in as PM if elected. He was scrap-the-Euro-leave-the-EU-right-wing-loon wasn't he?
TF1 news, it'll be on their website on replay. "Le journal de 20h". She's also dropped getting rid of the Euro.
And, yes, she joined forces with Dupont-Aignan who is anti-EU. Go figure. That's on [url= https://news.sfr.fr/actualites/politique/ ]SFR[/url] no sign of the change of policy there yet though.
@ chickenman. If you read any of my other posts you will guess I am being facetious.
TF1 news, it'll be on their website on replay. "Le journal de 20h". She's also dropped getting rid of the Euro.
Jesus, impressive set of U-turns. Will have a look at TF1 now. Cheers.
4:20 on. "la sortie de l'Euro et revenir au Franc n'est plus la priorité".
Yes read it too.
She wants Fillon votes, and he was pro eu.
She's gone quiet on the EU since the poll that showed an unbeatable majority in favour of EU membership. All that remains is a referendum, maybe. Dropping a return to the Franc (which was equally dependent on a referendum) as a priority shows she's realised that she can't win the presidential election with anti-EU policies and that even if she wins then the promised referendums would go against her. It's pragmatism, for once. But not enough IMO. We'll find out next weekend.
I have got my fingers tightly crossed that Le Pen wins so that the toxic EU project can finally unravel. The EU project is dead and it's time it was disbanded and reverted back to a collaboration of nations each with their own monetary and fiscal policies.
I fondly remember the days of booking a summer holiday based on which currency sterling was strong against and enjoying the culture that each country offered.
The EU project stinks and as far as I am concerned it's Germanic expansion without war!
sometimes its hard to tell what posts are sarcasm and irony and which ones are heartfelt and sincere
#poeslaw
Quite an interesting piece in the Telegraph on the EU's likely tactics with input from Yanis Voroufakis:
Personally I think even trying to negotiate will be a waste of time - better to tell the 27 members to stuff their divorce claim, focus on WTO and wait till the German car manufacturers (amongst others) start to put the pressure on Merkel.
Hello just5minutes - this is reality calling.
no deal would be an even worse disaster and don't believe any nonsense about they need us more than we need them. Walk away without paying he bills due then we will get well and truely shafted. No market for the cars assembled here - all those plants will close and move to poland or similar. We have nothing to bargain with at all. Zero. Zilch
Brexiters still oping for the fabled German intervention
But German car bosses are unwilling to undermine Merkel's position. Merkel recently reiterated that EU governments would not negotiate Brexit terms until London had triggered the irreversible "article 50" leaving process, before adding pointedly that business leaders should show similar restraint.That sentiment was quickly echoed by Matthias Wissmann, head of Germany's influential auto industry lobby, the VDA.
"Everything must be done to allow the unfettered flow of goods and services," he told reporters. "But there is one clear priority: we must stand together among the 27 EU member states."
Wissmann's counterpart at the UK's SMMT car industry group also warned UK lawmakers that BMW, Daimler and Volkswagen Group may not push too hard for free trade.
German carmakers see "Europe as more important than the UK market," SMMT chief Mike Hawes told a parliamentary committee in January. "They will align with what is best for Germany."
And who is to say that the German govt won't do a Nissan?
Brexiterrs: Oi, Europe, **** off, you need us more than we need you. We'll go WTO cos we're awesome.
Reality of WTO sets in.
Brexiteers: Erm, Germany, lend a brother a dollar, man.
#ItsAllTheEUsFault
[url= https://www.statista.com/statistics/267252/key-automobile-markets-of-bmw-group/ ]Revenue by region for BMW[/url] - UK is 10% of total, China is in there at ~20%.
focus on WTO and wait till the German car manufacturers (amongst others) start to put the pressure on Merkel.
So that's your great plan? Blind hope......
🙄
UK is 10% of total, China is in there at ~20%.
With Germany, France & Italy combining to provide more than 20%. I don't see any likelihood that the German automotive industry will make any attempt to call the shots on a Brexit deal.
Lebowski, the bretards seem to like grasping at straws.....
And who is to say that the German govt won't do a Nissan?
Maybe they are prepared to find another market for the 18% of all cars manufactured in Germany they ship here, go figure
people are correct they will move stuff to Poland Latvia Bulgaria etc but it was happening anyway.
BMW buyers have to be among the least price-sensitive consumers in the car market. Ditto T6 buyers and Merc aspirants. I don't think the Germans have much to worry about. What else a aspirational Brits going to drive, Renault-Nissans?
they will simply accept that they are going to loose a bit of profit . easily recovered by cutting costs in the UK , less jobs in dealerships , factories etc ... .
loose , loose .
Luxury cars from Germany will still be aimed at the same people. If they cost a little more the so be it.
Much worse impacts would be tariffs on the cheap parts from Eastern Europe which would raise the cost of parts for the cheaper cars and increase servicing costs. Perhaps we will go back to the days of flying abroad to by cheap french car parts.
Plenty of profit to lose before they are in trouble too. Porsche and BMW have some of the biggest margins in the business. Of the order of 10% or £5000 a car for BMW.
Makes no difference to them.
Massive difference the the UK / EU neogtiations @matt. The EU is trying to herd 27 cats (Dutch already said they won't pay a cent more into the EU budget and the Poles won't take a cent less). May will have a rock solid platform and a long post Brexit mandate to close new trade deals before the next GE. She will have a fresh electoral mandate to walk away if there is not a good deal. So the EU will have no cracks to exploit, as opposed to the UK.
Im seeing lots of EU demand this or ....or what
really am starting to lean towards **** Europe lets see what happens to be honest, rather than playing along nicely
Yes agreed, it feels like it's not worth bothering with. Energies best spent anywhere. Agreed again about it getting very nasty. There are 1000's of EU bureaucrats with fabulously cushy jobs, generous salaries, sky high pensions and minimal tax who have everything to lose.
Haven't seen the French news today, will check tomorrow. Le Pen always said she'd give the EU a chance to reform before the Referendum. She was never going to act unilaterally. Will be interesting to see the turnout, many family members here have said they won't vote.
Tariff free on Japanese cars (new trade deal) vs tariffs on EU cars would mean a 24% change in relative pricing. We never did get to the bottom of BMW X5 tariffs as sthey are all built in the USA
French car parts are more expensive in France because of anti-copy laws. It'll still be cheaper to buy a Chinese made copy part in the UK than the origin part in France.
@Edukator UK is Germany's third largest market in tne world for cars. Not bad for 60m people. As a "target market" customer of Porsche/Audi/BMW I can tell you I am very focused on price. I like my German cars but have also owned Toyotas, Mitsubishi and Honda which IMO don't have the same style but have superior reliability. They also already cost less
Clutching at straws? Merkel is going to overturn basic principles of the EU ( not that she can anyway) for a small extra profit for a couple of car companies? Get real.
@Edukator. Here is what Le Pen said afaik
Originally she wanted a euro/French Franc Referendum within 6 months. Now she says 12 to 18 months. It's a minor timetable shift.
Massive difference the the UK / EU neogtiations @matt
#jambafact
It's a minor timetable shift.
'Course it is, yeah. 😆
fabulously cushy jobs, generous salaries, sky high pensions and minimal tax
What, like you and your fellow bankers!
her niece said she would wait the mep elections in 2018 and see what happens .
in the meantime the FN is accused of falsely employing 29 people .
The actual quote from TF1 is on the previous page, Jamba. Could you link something to Le Pen saying 12-18 months or any other time frame other than the "no longer the priority" I've quoted and posted a link to back up.
You need a quote not a guess as to something she might have said if she were you.
Does anyone know which direction LePen is facing now? She's done that many u-turns in the last few days, nobody can figure it out.
Well according to TF1 she and Dupont-Aignan have agreed on some common policies which will need publishing pretty quickly if they are to influence the vote in eight days time. The Euro u-turn was just a taster.
So, according to the [url= https://www.vda.de/en/services/facts-and-figures/annual-figures/exports.html ]German car manufacturers association[/url], helpfully printed in English, German car manufacturers made 15M passenger cars in 2015 worldwide, of which 4.4M were exported, and 809,000 were exported to the UK.
Well, Ed and cchris, I hope enough French voters can stop holding their noses. I understand many on the left wanting not to vote for an ex-banker, but when the choice is between a centre-left (yeah, I realise this is probably up for debate - what use are one-dimensional axes in politics anyway these days?) banker and a neofascist, or the politician who doesn't deny French involvement in the Holocaust and the one that does, I'd hope many of them could un-hold their noses.
Do you really believe we can source all our fresh food from across the ocean as easily as we at present do. I think we need Europe more than they need us. Needing the means to urgently feed 60 m
"Let them eat cake" as jamba would say. Since he doesn't speak French.
Agreed again about it getting very nasty.
Jamba - I know I'm stating the obvious, but the Brexies started it. You lot thought you could be nasty and no one else would? After years, for example, of the Brexy press being nasty about Europe, you are like bullies crying when someone stands up to them. And I see you're also advocating the "it's my ball and I'm taking it home" course of action. There's a certain immaturity about Brexit isn't there?
Do you really believe we can source all our fresh food from across the ocean as easily as we at present do.
No we can't and as we are heavily reliant on imported food (and have been for hundred years +) this is the area that is going to hit the average person. The average person does not buy BMW/Audis etc,. so the price of those is irrelevant.
We could of course start to become more self dependent. Government grants given to large all round vegetable producers (poly tunnel setups etc,.). Couple of problems with that.
1. The government doesn't care whether the poorer half of society can afford to eat
2. Would need even more immigrants to work in the farms.
So more expensive food imports it is then....
Now she says 12 to 18 months
Source please.
EU car manufacturers will sell less cars and make less profit, they will have to cut margins to try and remain comoetitve (if) they lose their tariff advantage. The UK is very profitable for car companies, losing market share here will hurt disproportionately. We will still buy as many cars just the mix will shoft away from Europe in the event of tariffs. IMO fhere will be a deal on cars and manufacturing. If not with the EU then with Japan etc. I'll have a Japanese hybrid over a French/German diesel anyday
@igm no "we" really did not. The UK government said right at the start post the Referendum we would like to guaranty EU citizens right to stay, the EU said no discussions till A50. Then we add on the ludicrous Brexit bill nonsense. We have funded their vanity project for 40 years, no longer it's over.
Reuters, Edukator. DrJ my French is terrible, I do speak enough for social sitiations but not to a professional level to hold a French speaking job, I read reasonably well. It should be better with a French wife and having pretty much lived in Paris for 12 months.
The parlez vous Francais defence
Jamba - its certainly is the leavers who are both deluded and started the nastyness.
the EU position has been obvious, coherent and following due process from the beginning. Its exactly how we remainers knew it was going to be
We have no cards to play in the negotiations at all. there is no way on earth that fundamental foundations of the EU are going to be changed to suit us when its to the disadvatage of the EU
On cars - sure BMW will sell a few les cars in the UK. Certainly without a deal Nissan etc will all leave the UK
Advantage the EU
Jamba, there will be fewer cars sold but will the danage be so great that German car manufacturers will persuade politicians to shaft the EU and give us a cushy deal? The latter would be far worse in the long term, perhaps spelling the end of the EU.
Those numbers imply it would be unpleasant but not disastrous for car makers.
@igm no "we" really did not. The UK government said right at the start post the Referendum we would like to guaranty EU citizens right to stay
Umm nope. We had a perfectly good deal in place. The brexitards chose to tear it up.
We have funded their vanity project for 40 years, no longer it's over.
Oh yes - 350m a week isn't it?
The UK government said right at the start post the Referendum we would like to guaranty EU citizens right to stay
Source? 'cos from what I know this is 100% wrong. May immediately linked the rights of EU citizens in the UK to other aspects holding them as hostages / bargaining chips
1. Average people don't buy Audis or Bmws
Though there's also a lot of Vws flying about is that the poor mans average car then?
Ford are probably chuffed to bits isn't theirs the biggest seller.
2. Would need even more immigrants to work in the farms
Or would we have enough unemployed ? Serious question as I've only seen the chart that showed lots of people working here 6-7m versus the UK people working in Europe which was a paltry figure in comparison
surely even the thickest laziest bastard couldn't find a technical issue other than claustrophobia to work in a poly tunnel or on a farm?
This piece from the BBC is pretty good "what's worrying EU nations"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39513280
It is isnt it
Even business leaders - among them the head of the association of Germany's all-powerful car manufacturers - acknowledge the EU's interests must come first.
Mrs Merkel has warned against the "illusion" the UK can retain or even negotiate better rights than member states
surely even the thickest laziest bastard couldn't find a technical issue other than claustrophobia to work in a poly tunnel or on a farm?
You'd think so, but it's evidently not true, otherwise we'd have less unemployed and less immigration.
what's worrying me is greater restriction on getting goods in and out of the EU, like WTO, meaning our EU customers ( who probably outnumber our UK ones 10:1 ) putting pressure on the multinational i work for to beef up their technical side in europe at our office's expense.
funny how that 27 who can't get their shit together to do anything can sit down and sign an agreement between them rather quickly when they want to.
funny how that 27 who can't get their shit together to do anything can sit down and sign an agreement between them rather quickly when they want to.
Perhaps since their position was always going to be pretty predictable, and they've had 9 months to sort it?
funny how that 27 who can't get their shit together to do anything can sit down and sign an agreement between them rather quickly when they want to
You're surprised by something painstakingly obvious, why?
You're surprised by something painstakingly obvious, why?
To be fair to Del, I'd assumed his statement was irony-laden. Lleavers have been banging on about the EU being an unorganised mess and these last few weeks getting angrier and more fervent - a simple symptom when the political equivalent of toddlers feel they're losing control of a situation.
Anyone caught the Leave.EU tweet trying to make capital out of a boxer of Nigerian/Irish descent beating a Ukrainian? Some hilarious stuff. 😆
The position of the 27 was always obvious thus its simple to get agreement especially when all their interests are 90% aligned
Theresa May word perfect on Andrew Marr 🙂
Junker is right no deal is more likely than a deal based on the EU's ludicrous position.
interests are 90% aligned
That's the daftest thing on here fir a while. The 27 have wildly different interests. Thr Poles etc don't really care where their money comes from.
Mummmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyy.
EU ludicrous position.
#jambafact
Thr Poles etc
😐
It is indeed ludicrous to not change all your rules for the person leaving your club.
I tired of leave and you saying exactly that throughout the campaign- we will get nothing at all that we want- you big bunch of honest purveyors of blaming the EU for our actions
On the plus side that £350 million is going to get some use eh
That's the daftest thing on here fir a while
That is one of your better satirical efforts of late
5/10 but A+ for effort.
Surely we agreed to all the rules when we joined? It's not like they are making stuff up is it?
Its not hard to work out who is making things up on this thread
That is what it all comes down to, Jamba is out of shape that Poland gets money. That's pitiful
milleboy - "agreed to all the rules?" We MADE the rules, in large part. The brexiteers exhibit stunning hypocrisy and ignorance in equal measure.
On the EU, May was tackled about reported comments from Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European commission, that she was “living in another galaxy” when it came to her demands for trade talks before an exit bill of up to £50bn a year was settled.May denied this was the case: “I’m not in a different galaxy but what this shows is that there are going to be times when these negotiations are going to be tough; we need strong and stable leadership.”
She was also tackled by Marr over her use of soundbites and slogans, but the prime minister continued to use her favoured phrase about showing “strong and stable leadership”.
Word perfect. Yeah. 😆
Jamba - you stated earlier that May wanted to negotiate / solve the issue of EU citizens rights in the UK - can you please provide a source? 'cos All I saw was an attempt to use their position as bargaining chips
can you please provide a source?
TeeJ, here's some fog, nails and a hammer. See that wall over there? Right, off you go. 🙂
dd - thank you. the irony detector is strong with you. 😉 you put my point far more effectively.
No time scale given on Reuters Twitter feed or any public access Reuters news feed I can find, Jamba. If you copy paste the quote we'll find it even if it's behind a pay wall.
I'm genuinely interested because if Marine trying to con people that leaving the EU and Euro are no longer a priority but really intends to go for it in your time frame then people need to know and I'd pass the information on to Bayrou.
does make you wonder where the whole defence thing will go, parts for those eurofighters are expensive
Does "strong and stable" remind anyone else of the smell of horse manure? And thats no bullshit. 😉
Been checking around news sites today reading about the Brexiteer's other poster girl, the neo-fascist Le Pen. Still can't find any reference to a 12-18 month delay.
jamba, you remembered where you heard it yet? You didn't just make it up did you?
@igm no "we" really did not. The UK government said right at the start post the Referendum we would like to guaranty EU citizens right to stay, the EU said no discussions till A50. Then we add on the ludicrous Brexit bill nonsense. We have funded their vanity project for 40 years, no longer it's over.
- The Sun 2015“Up Yours Delors” declared The Sun on November 1, 1990
Nope, the Brexies have been at it for a long time.
It seems to me you lot started it.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-gain-tory-victory-theresa-may-general-election-8-june-yougov-opinium-polls-a7709961.html?cmpid=facebook-post ]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-gain-tory-victory-theresa-may-general-election-8-june-yougov-opinium-polls-a7709961.html?cmpid=facebook-post[/url]
How i would laugh if the GE put May in a worse position.....
Marine Le pen's Euro position is getting more comical. Today she said that an elite (bankers, institutions, companies) will continue with the Euro but we petit peuple will have to make do with something worth less.
I'm amused because giving privileges to the the financial elite is not what here working class voters will want to hear.
Marine Le pen's Euro position is getting more comical. Today she said that an elite (bankers, institutions, companies) will continue with the Euro but we petit peuple will have to make do with something worth less.
Not sure she hasn't been taking lessons from the Chinese, the little people can have Francs, the bankers can have Euro, just double side the coins, everyone wins.
Lepen voters are working class and unemployed .she has just chosen à potential pm from the opposite party ?
Doesn't make sense.
does make you wonder where the whole defence thing will go, parts for those eurofighters are expensive
Two options
1 - keep up the collaboration and nothing changes
2 - become a customer to Europe or the US as the UK cannot afford to develop a new military jet from scratch any more. The US is probably the only nation that can really afford to do it but then they spend 12 times as much as us on the military (although the difference in GDP% is not so stark)
Surely we agreed to all the rules when we joined?
I never voted to accept the Lisbon Treaty, did you?
I never voted to accept the Lisbon Treaty, did you?
Did you vote on Magna Carta? We live in representative democracy.