[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39664537

More good new for retail...............another Brexit win.

^^^^^ EU PUNISHING US I tell you 🙂

DoD does DM 🙂

So what's the EU doing for me? I'll compare a trip to Spain with when I worked there before they were full EU members.

Drove in without stopping.
Continued along roads partly EU financed
Paid the toll with the Euro coins in my pocket.
Used phone at low prices imposed by EU
Booked in to accommodation, no need for a passport.
Drank the tap water (drinking water directive)
MTBed in national parks which are part of EU initiatives
Bought food in a supermarket with the same consumer information as everywhere else in the EU
Enjoyed fish in a restaurant which may not have survived without EU fisheries policy

oh look, here I am passing through the "uncontrolled, open" UK border at Calais last week.

[img] [/img]

(not pictured - French Army, French customs, ferry company ticketing).

lol if that's not a controlled border what do you want?

Drank the tap water (drinking water directive)

Bloody red tape!

I see a strong trend of self victimisation amongst leavers. Blame the other. There are disturbing historical parallels.

Well done for destroying your own point in two lines - very impressive.

Not to mention that anything assertive the EU does to protect its own members is "bullying us".

Pathetic.

I have a couple of friends who work in trades and say their incomes have been reduced due to wage competition from EU incomers. I've no idea if that stands up to scrutiny, but that's what they say and that's directly why they voted leave.

But, will their incomes go down even further if the economy slides?

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39664537 ]Are economic problems starting?[/url]

Keith Richardson, managing director of retail at Lloyds Bank Commercial Banking, said that after record growth in 2016, the retail sector was slowing down.
"These figures suggest that the clouds are now gathering over British consumers," he said.

But, will their incomes go down even further if the economy slides?

I suspect one will be OK as his client base is "old money" and he serves them well so gets plenty of repeats. The other, yes, more likely.

Drank the tap water (drinking water directive)

Bloody red tape!

We were drinking the tap water at a place that produces 100 000 litres of wine ([url= http://www.agerretxakolina.com/en/ ]Agerre white wine[/url]) a year and the lady didn't seem the slightest bit put out.

[i] molgrips - Member
I don't think you did.. but we'll find out if it stops doing it won't we [/i]

Repeating yourself and your opinion that I'm too stupid to know I didn't want to be in Europe as it is, any longer.
And to think you might have posted something intelligent, rather than once again, attacking a leaver, playing the Man.
Still classy then 🙂

[i] Oh and that's not playing the man - that would be if I called you an idiot or some other abuse.[/i]
Ha, ha. You claim leavers didn't know what they voted for, but that's not insulting, or anything, is it..... Of course, it really is insulting, but you known that.
You know what you're saying.
You know you're being divisive, perhaps hoping to start an unnecessary arguement?
That wouldn't be for the first either, molgrips.

[i]And yes I fully appreciate the problems that huge numbers of people face daily. I do not live in a privileged bubble. However, I don't think those problems are caused by the EU, I think they could well get much worse after the vote.[/i]
So in other words you blindly ignore people like me so as to retain your beliefs in your EU is wonderful, paradigm.

Again, almost amusing. You claim to know the issues faced by those who felt they finally had no other choice than to vote leave, as if their issues, were yours, but you really don't know.
Have you ever considered a career in politics.
You will conveniently over look facts such as when David Cameron was shut into a room with most of the other EU leaders and told not to proceed with a referendum.
Why do you suppose that happened. Could it have been those in Brussels knew what was really happening, but seeing as they were doing Ok, they didn't mind that others would suffer during the continued implementation of the Brussels plan.

[i]If they improve (as I hope they do) it'll be because future governments have nowhere to hide any more and might start actually doing their job. [/i]
LOL, more insults from you, when you imply we can't see what you're really saying in that statement.

You now appear to be plumbing new depths of divisiveness on here.
Just slightly cringe worthy you think the rest of us too dumb we can't see what you're really trying to say.
Carry on!
😀

When trying to defend a claim of stupidity it was very unwise to write this

LOL, more insults from you, when you imply we can't see what you're really saying in that statement.

😆

Solo - you still haven't told me (or I've missed it) what daily injuries the EU did you.
What were they? Help me out here, before I start believing you imagined them. And I truthfully don't want to believe that.

To be fair to those suggesting that those voting leave didn't know what they were voting for, I think that the fact we still don't know what Brexit actually means (tariff free access or not, some form of continued free movement or not, ECJ or not - even the three Brexmigos change their tune regularly - except Fox, what happened to Fox) suggests there may be a grain of truth in that.
I accept that you know what you though you were voting for, what you wanted to happen I hope you will accept that isn't quite the same thing.

Solo - Member
...

TL;DR

Solo. You're not doing yourself any favours here.

I'm not calling you stupid. I don't think you are. I think *most* leavers are not aware of the good things the EU does. Probably the most important is that it facilitates trade. We will not get anywhere near as good a deal anywhere else.

You claim to know the issues faced by those who felt they finally had no other choice than to vote leave, as if their issues, were yours, but you really don't know.

I'm ready to listen.

I don't think we've had any specific examples of how the EU harms the UK, have we? It does stop Jambalaya from trading how he wants - this is interesting, and I'd like to know specifically what these rule are and why they exist. That could be a good concrete example.

ooops

[img] [/img]

oh.

You will conveniently over look facts such as when David Cameron was shut into a room with most of the other EU leaders and told not to proceed with a referendum.

Any chance of a link, Solo? Google throws up George Osbourne amongst others but not most of the other EU leaders.

3/10 for your rant solo.

Because that's about all you've done. Rant.

Long on hot air & short on facts.

Please be specific on what exactly the EU has done that's caused you grief.

Please be specific

And, for the luvva jaysus, keep it succinct...your last post just went on and on and on and on and on and on...a couple of paragraphs* would be good for a start.

*easy on the bold/italics/smileys please.

Edukator - Reformed Troll

Drove in without stopping.

mattjg - Member

oh look, here I am passing through the "uncontrolled, open" UK border at Calais last week.

If you're all going to shout in the same direction, try doing it from the same hymn sheet. 😉

If you're all going to shout in the same direction, try doing it from the same hymn sheet.

Edukator's describing his trip to Spain from France.

mattjg's describing re-entering the UK (non-schengen) from France.

deadlydarcy - Member

Edukator's describing his trip to Spain from France.

mattjg's describing re-entering the UK (non-schengen) from France.

Yet both thanks to the EU.
Having your cake and eating it is the applicable phrase. 💡

Yet both thanks to the EU.

Good man!

deadlydarcy - Member

Good man!

Last time I visited an EU country I had to show my passport.
Last time I visited a non EU country I had to show my passport.

Yay EU!

🙄

Yay EU!

Isn't it great, Glad you're giving your shout-out!

I'd really like to hear some honest to god facts about why leaving is the best option...

You know, not hyperbole, not opinion but some really good hard facts why we are better off out.

I've not heard any to date.........

deadlydarcy - Member

Isn't it great?

I'm glad you've realised the ridiculousness of the notion, and that you take any criticism of the staunchly pro-EU rhetoric seriously.

you take any criticism of the staunchly pro-EU rhetoric seriously.

As is often the case, adverbs are the tool of the lazy.

deadlydarcy - Member

As is often the case, adverbs are the tool of the lazy.

I'm not going to entertain accusations of laziness from someone who has just avoided any discussion by using childish misquotation and piss-taking.

In other news,
Estoban Ospina in Bogata has just come up with a delicious new recipe for ajiaco, yay EU! 😀

I'm not going to entertain accusation

You've set your negotiating position.

mrlebowski - Member

You know, not hyperbole, not opinion but some really good hard facts why we are better off out.

We'll be free to negotiate our own, worse trade deals with America. When they feel like it.

Man, taking back control gets me [i]hard.[/i] There's nothing else like it.

deadlydarcy - Member

You've set your negotiating position.

That's quite good. 😆

In lieu of having nothing to say, it's [i]excellent[/i]. 😉

[img] [/img]

I'm ordering mine in two-tone beige.

with a square steering wheel

I'm ordering mine in two-tone beige

Flash!

[IMG] [/IMG]

🙂

I have to say on here and in the wider world I have never seen any coherent reasons for leaving the ~EU that make any sense

Of course, if we're picking pre-EU British cars you can keep the above, I'll have one of these:
[IMG] [/IMG]

sbob

In 20 years I have never had to show my passport going INTO one of the 27 rest of EU countries - only to get back into the UK - last time I went to france no one checked anything - I just walked off the plane and into France

So when and how did you have to show a passport to get into one of the 27?

Last time I flew into Poland I had to show my passport.
It was no big deal.

last time i went abroad the only place that checked was the UK to leave and enter,

I'm not a frequent traveller, but everyone had their passport at hand so I would not be surprised if it was a frequent occurrence.

Not in the least bit troublesome though.

The last time I had to show my passport in Europe was years ago crossing from France to Italy using the telepherique between the Aiguille du Midi and the Torino hut. Which was a shame as I'd left it in the campsite in Chamonix!!

Not in the least bit troublesome though.

Unlike the queues of people waiting at the "Non-EU Passports" desks.

No doubt when post-Brexit Brits are made to do this it will be because "the EU is punishing us" 🙄

I have had to show it to enter the Schengen area in Amsterdam Schiphol airport, when changing planes. Also had to show it when arriving in Sweden, Finland and Switzerland on work trips.

GrahamS - Member

Unlike the queues of people waiting at the "Non-EU Passports" desks.

Will it be like the rest of the world? You know, the bit that actually exists outside the EU?
Should be ok then. 🙂

It will clearly be more of a pain that what we have currently and clearly the waiting times to enter the tu will only increase

Its hardly the biggest issue with leaving the EU but to pretend it wont be annoying/create a delay when folk travel is incorrect.

to pretend it wont be annoying/create a delay when folk travel is incorrect.

Good job no-one is doing that. 🙂

Its hardly the biggest issue with leaving the EU

Quite correct. 🙁

I've been to France Belgium and Sweden in the past 2 months and had to go through Passport control every time. In fact I don't remember ever not having my passport checked when flying from UK to Europe.

Its hardly the biggest issue with leaving the EU but to pretend it wont be annoying/create a delay when folk travel is incorrect.

Think about the delay for cars then consider the customs, paperwork etc that will face haulage and the implications for getting across the channel.

In fact I don't remember ever not having my passport checked when flying from UK to Europe.

This. Passport checked at Amsterdam, Prague, Venice and Alicante in the last 18mnths.

When I travel within Europe, yes they check my passport but it takes less than 30 seconds for them to look at me and then let me through despite my dodgy picture.

Conversely If I travel through Turkey there are probably about 4 5plus min checks and then if I go to the US they take fingerprints and ask me random questions.

Hopefully we don't end up in the latter category by posturing and threatening to pull out of the joint security arrangements.

your passport is always checked* on arrival in an EU country when flying from the UK.

* I say checked , but a lot of the time you just get waved through with a cursory glance.

Man who says he's "not a frequent traveller" reassures everyone this won't be an issue. 😆

It's a minor annoyance at best for folk going to the continent once a year.

I suspect it'll be slightly more of an annoyance for folk who make that trip weekly, especially if they have to start faffing about with visas, entry questionnaires, biometrics etc.

It's not really a reason to stay in the EU - it's just one more little niggle for once we leave (which will no doubt be blamed on the EU).

GrahamS - Member

Man who says he's "not a frequent traveller" reassures everyone this won't be an issue.

Correct.
I only travel abroad a few times a year at most and have never had to endure significant queues.
Not that I was professing to be the oracle of international travel, just sharing a different experience with a poster (though I seem to have had similar experiences to more), but I appreciate you can't help yourself. 🙂

Travel much?

* I say checked , but a lot of the time you just get waved through with a cursory glance.

That's the point - it's quickly checked because as an EU citizen you have the right to enter the country. If they have to start checking your precise immigration status, visa expiry date and whatnot it will get a lot more tiresome.

Julians - not true. Many times I have gone straight in with no passport check - yes its checked leaving the UK but not entering France. Last summer I simply walked off the plane and into France. Not even anyone on duty to check passports

Travel much?

Nope. If you read what I say, I'm pointing out that [i]people who do travel a lot[/i] will naturally be more inconvenienced.

have never had to endure significant queues.

You're very lucky then. My most recent trip was in February and on the way back we queued for security at Geneva airport for over two hours. The queue was so long that they opened the fire doors so they could loop it out the building twice!

I can't imagine that situation would have been improved by additional security checks, visas, entry questionnaires, etc!

My experience is go to EU - 5-10 minutes at passport control

Go to USA - can be an hour or more, rarely less than 30 minutes

Not the biggest issue, but not an improvement.

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2879/33830584950_cb7d285e9f_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2879/33830584950_cb7d285e9f_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

BTW of course EU can formally commence negotiations for a trade arrangement with the US before the UK as we are prevented until 2019. I'll wgaer we get our deal signed before they do.

I'll wgaer we get our deal signed before they do.

TJ we travel to France more than once a month. I always show my passport where flying, Eurostar or Eurotunnel. Posting from the queue at Eurotunnel having just shown our passports (UK and French passports checked at both UK and French booths)

You don't have to show anything when traveling in mainland eu.

Do we need the definition of the Schengen Area again?
The one the UK never joined?

Last time I tried the only reason I knew we had gone from France to Belgium was the roads went crap.
Still loving the big lists of ways the EU is messing with everything.

Still loving the big lists of ways the EU is messing with everything.

Mumble,muumble control must take back 🙂

Don't think I'd want to rely on Trump for anything other than chocolate cake opinions tbh.

Having recently had some conversation with a brexiter family member, I'm pleased to report that they had absolutely no answer when asked in what way they thought life in the UK would be improved by brexit in the next 10 years. They don't even care. It's just a vote against nasty corrupt europeans and too many immigrants, because.....well there is no because actually.

well there is no because actually.

There is a because, it is because they have an irrational fear of foreigners (could say they are a bit racist)

But we have to remember that no one voted leave because they are racist.

They don't even care. It's just a vote against nasty corrupt europeans and too many immigrants,

Two things the EU could have addressed, two things which would not ever have been an issue if the EEC had stuck to being a "common market"

French elections almost tied between pro-Europe Macron and Fillion and highly Eurosceptic Le Pen and Melechon. Le Pen and Macron into the head to head it seems

Just been counting votes. In our area (rich, educated, leftward leaning) Le Pen scored about half what she did the last time we counted. Fillon did worse than Sarko, Macron did rather well, and the reserve of lefty voters bodes well for him in the second round (assuming the national vote confirms he makes it).

Macron on 24%, Le Pen 21%.

Guess that mean Macron will clean up next time round. I imagine that won't help May (if she wins) during Brexit talks.

We've just opened a bottle of Médoc to celebrate.

FN are not happy . they were hopping for a lot more .

We laughed on the way into the polling station when we saw Fillon's poster had been replaced (and f'ed up again). Previously someone had been blacking out letters and it read: "Un vol pour la France".

* bottle nearly empty*

To be fair to my brexiter relative, it is not the foreignness per se they object to, just the total number of people which is apparently too many. The UK is full and we cannot accept a single extra person.

FN are happy enough I am sure, they are still in the game and saw off the Republicans. Stunning really that the incumbant Government came 5th. I would expect Macron to win but who can be certain - I find it hard to believe he has been abke to cast himself as somethung new - a banker and ex PS member and minister. Le Penn will pick up votes from Melechon and further left. My wife will probably vote for no one, zero chance she will vote for Macron.

@milleboy hard to know how Macron will handle Brexit if/when he wins, he's really a one man band. As an ex banker and very much a centerist its easy to think he'd be very pragmatic, the last thing he needs is a revolt from the farmers after a hard-Brexit. He had eggs thrown at him when he visited the big Paris agricultural show during his campaign.