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No, she was in an OK position but expects to be in a much stronger position come June 8th.
Yep - she will be in a stronger position. Will the country be in a stronger position? Oh well, who gives a sh1t about that?
The SNP should definitely spread outside Scotland. We could all do with a centre party. They could be called the.. erm... British National Party...?
DrJ well I think the country will be in a much better position as a result of a significantly increased Tory majority. Any sort of (currenct) Labour / SNP / Lib Dem coalition would be a catastrophe.
DrJ well I think the country will be in a much better position as a result of a significantly increased Tory majority.
You only say that because you like Tory policies.
The referendum result was 52/48 - or 17/16 if we keep it simpler.
52-48 - a win for leave but a near equal division.
And she claims she wants a "united" Parliament because we are a "united" people.
Parliament should be split, that's what it's for and that's how it would represent the result.
Behaving like the result was 99/1, and Parliament is misrepresentative, is not democracy. But that's what she's seeking to do.
You only say that because you like Tory policies.
My responce would be they are the ONLY credible ones. Quite simply no sensible workable alternatives are available today.
@matt we have had two different types of democracy in the last 12 months, every vote counts Referendum and now the GE. It seems neither have or will produce a result you wish for. That's democracy for you.
It's not about the result I want, it's about the winners behaving as if the losers' opinions mattered with some kind of proportionality to the vote split. This applies to referendums and the obviously flawed FPTP system.
And while I'm on it, its about the winners calling those who dissent undemocratic, saboteurs, traitors ... too. I don't believe you've done that but I'm sure you recognise many of your belief do.
Worrying times for our country.
My responce would be they are the ONLY credible ones.
Like I said - you like Tory policies...
So a 2 to 1 majority is required to call an early GE. A far smaller majority is required to support the biggest change affecting the UK in the last 50 years. Oh and there will probably end up being a majority government voted for by about a third of the electorate. Funny stuff this democracy.
Yeah and the irony is some people voted leave because the EU is, wait for it, "undemocratic".
Is the best option not to ask every conservative candidate about every claim that leave had/has? If they can answer those questions I would be happy to vote leave/conservative but from the facts/news/simple logic I come to the following conclusion.
Less immigration? No
Money for NHS? No
More control? No
Greater national sovereignty? No
Strong possibility of the break up of the uk? Yes
Strong possibly of big problems in NI? Yes
UK farming collapse due to being exposed to world prices? Yes
People who voted Remain have a second chance.
Use it.
This ^^^
People who voted Remain have a second chance.Use it.
Can you explain how I do that? In 2015 my constituency was 60% Tory, 15% UKIP. Where do I get my second chance?
You see, I kind of disagree with this. The people voted, and yes it was close and the result somewhat flawed by the exclusion of the people it will hurt more and the crap campaigns on both sides. But that was the rules and that was the outcomes.
What i do disagree with now is that there was no brexit plan to examine and vote on, and that has now metamorphosised into 'give me a bigger majority to instigate the brexit that I want' without taking into account the closeness and the wishes of remainers, the (many) leavers who are now saying 'hang on, I didn't exactly vote for this' and also our EU colleagues. Instead we have talk of traitors, saboteurs, 'it'll be worse for them than us' and 'they had their chance, never changed the EU when they should so it'll be their fault if we cause it to all crash down, ****'em'
Hence why I say - a 'party' (or coalition or whatever) that'll offer Brexit but in an appropriate way would get my vote. And who cares if the Government will be a bit cobbled together while things are thrashed out; the alternative is still worse in my book and at least we can change it again later. I've achieved great things as part of a team that was thrown together at the last minute to deal with an issue. I'm not pretending that a work problem, no matter how hard, is anything like running a country but most of that's in the safe hands of the Civil service, and I don't think will collapse overnight while the wrinkles are ironed out.
theotherjonv - Member
You see, I kind of disagree with this. The people voted, and yes it was close and the result somewhat flawed by the exclusion of the people it will hurt more and the crap campaigns on both sides. But that was the rules and that was the outcomes.
Remind me of what the rules said we had to do on receipt of that non-binding referendum result?
Also that result is now history. It has relevance up to the next GE and then only in textbooks. Otherwise we would still be bound by the 1975 referendum.
Interesting comparison between the voting in 1975 and 2017. Scotland was least in favour of the EU in 75, while Lincolnshire was heavily in favour. And they go a 2/3 majority of those who voted, unlike the more recent half and half vote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum,_1975
Writte to your MP, local papers, question them on Twitter. ,Facebook etc...
Make your voice heard.
This is an opportunity.
Let them hear the will of the people.
Remind me of what the rules said we had to do on receipt of that non-binding referendum result?
True - but being expedient I think the chances of getting elected on a mandate of cancelling Brexit is impossible now (is it even legal having triggered A50, there's no back out option - although everyone's making this up on the hoof tbh). A manifesto of stopping this bus will galvanise the leavers even more, but i think a substantial proportion fall into the camps of 'I want brexit but i don't want a Tory government' (dare I say it, the working class traditional Labour voter) or 'I wanted Brexit but I don't want May and her cronies to impose their version of it which is not what i voted for'
It's not the ideal solution - which to me was to not take square aim at our own feet last year in the first place - but just because it's not ideal, I'm not so idealistic that if I can't have exactly what I want(ed) then i won't settle for something better than what's currently facing us.
I am idealistic - at least in what I want. But also pragmatic in terms of getting as close to that as possible. Remember this isn't over for a generation, so great things can be achieved. If it can be done during my lifetime so much the better.
is it even legal having triggered A50, there's no back out option - although everyone's making this up on the hoof tbh
Interesting question and one that as I recall the Irish courts were testing.
The pragmatic reality is though that if we said we meant A50 in the same way May meant no cut and run election then the EU27 would probably accept us cancelling A50 - there might or might not be a bit of a price to pay, but I suspect not.
Less immigration? No
Money for NHS? No
More control? No
Greater national sovereignty? No
Strong possibility of the break up of the uk? Yes
Strong possibly of big problems in NI? Yes
UK farming collapse due to being exposed to world prices? Yes
Controlled Immigration via visa system (we already have this with the rest of the world), we decide whether we want more, less or the same. Most importantly we decide what type of immigrants we want
Money for NHS, yes it will be a manifesto commitment (Gove et all where calling for an immediate £100m/week £5.!2bn pa even before we leave the EU in April 2019)
Great National Sovereignty, yes substantially so. All EU laws repatriated.
Strong possibility of the break upmof the UK. No close to zero. Scottish Indy is dead with UK outside the EU - 80% of Scottish exports are to rUK vs 20% to EU
Strong possibility of big problems in NI, nope lots of talk from Sinn Fein but thre will be no return to terrorist violence as post 9-11 their fundjng from the US has evaoprated
UK Farming collapse. Nope will go from strength to strength. WTO tariffs are very protective, one reason the EEC/EU CAP has to exist to substantially reduce those tariffs to allow French and Eastern European farmers to export much more cheaply
Onwards and upwards to a more global Britain
Hi Chris. I met mine 10 days ago, made my views very clear. She is a Leave campaigner by the way. Our constituency is Leave and UKIP made a decent run at the GE in 2010
is it even legal having triggered A50, there's no back out option
A50 is revokable because there is nothing in the treaty that says it isn't, and politically the 27 still prefer Brexit not to happen.
It wouldn't be trivial, and there would probably be a price, but anyone who tells you we are "past the point of no return" is mistaken or attempting to mislead you.
Can you explain how I do that? In 2015 my constituency was 60% Tory, 15% UKIP. Where do I get my second chance?
Ask Nigel Farage, he single handedly got a Referendum. You should work out how to campaign for a "lets rejoin the EU" vote. So far sadly for you you have Nick Clegg and Tony Blair. Maybe Gina what's her name will stand, she's been making a bit of noise recently
Where are you jamba? Not Mole Valley then. You are a Surrey Hills local though IIRC.
Onwards and upwards to a more global Britain
Sorry this does make me giggle. This country has been one of the most "global" for centuries. Sheesh.
Honestly the more the Brexit comedy act keep going the better the chances for the parties against them.
I expect a lot of comic ali meme's and comparisons with Trump who managed to declare a large naval battle group was going the opposite way to what he claimed
Matt (sadly riding wise) moved away from Guildford post my divorce in 2014, nomadic mixture of central London (50 mins to Peaslake, bitboess to Newlands), Hampshire (90 mins to Peaslake, 30 to QECP) and Paris (3hrs to any sort of remotely decent riding). Still dreaming about moving to Switzerland.
This country has been one of the most "global" for centurie
That is true, however the EU has been stedily eroding that not least curtailing our ability to keep our ties with the Commonwealth. My tag line is a bit tongue in cheek there is just soooo much negativity and bitterness here.
All EU laws repatriated??? Hope you enjoy the Environment as it is because with out EU legislation it would be a mess.
OK. Which constituency?
All EU laws repatriated
You mean to Europe?
Eastleigh is where I am registered to vote. Bikebouy is just over the River Hamble but in a different constituency.
My tag line is a bit tongue in cheek there is just soooo much negativity and bitterness here.
Why do you think that is.
Re visa system - that's worse for immigrants, and does nothing for UK citizens wishing to go elsewhere.
Still dreaming about moving to Switzerland.
Wait - what? So you WANT to move to another country, and yet you voted to stop the rest of us moving to other countries? Seriously?
City/service sector jobs growth continues despite Brexit. Services are tariff free under WTO. 77% of pir service exports are non-financial. EU could block financial services but they'd be screwed as they need the services and don't want to buy them from Dubai (counterparty risk issues) or G-d forbid New York (rabid anti-US bias)
City continues to be jobs magnet, despite Brexit uncertainty
http://news.sky.com/story/city-continues-to-be-jobs-magnet-despite-brexit-uncertainty-10843619
Eastleigh. 52.5% leave. Interesting. I wonder if she was influential in that as a declared eurosceptic. Demographically an older population than average?
jambalaya - Member
City/service sector jobs growth continues despite Brexit. Services are tariff free under WTO
Meanwhile Terry from Barnsley and Fred from Sunderland are packing their bags and heading to where the streets are paved with gold. Be careful who you promise the world to.
For you matt, thread needs more pictures. Cotic frame built in Taiwan as per most of the bits and thus imported under WTO. Hope bits made in the UK.
[img] 
[/img]
Funny, it was a pre-referendum film of a reporter at Hope, when all but one of the 6 interviewees said they were voting leave, that I decided leave was the likely result.
Yes I'm sure buying under WTO is fine. As for selling into our biggest market under WTO, perhaps not.
customer sent a machine back to us for service recently from a country in E.Asia. reckoned it cost them 2000USD return shipping with all the charges etc.
and with all the cocking about with customs it took about 3 weeks.
i think we work we carried out was ~ USD8000.
equivalent cost to ship same equipment between here and europe at the moment? ~ 200EUR, and it would be at it's destination next day.
quite a loading on that work under WTO, eh?
Lymington or Hamble?
Its surprising the little things the eu does
like 2 year warrentys and getting rid of roaming charges and that goody of getting a flight from a competitor when your flights overbooked.
dudeofdoom - Member
Its surprising the little things the eu does
It's like shouting at a wall, they have no idea. Nige said everything would be better just like before. When it was shit.
Let them speak, then let them answer this stuff in public, take away the protest vote and the idiots and Brexit is looking very unpopular that is why they are forcing it so hard. Run with the ideology must do it before they can stop us.
theotherjonv - MemberWhat i do disagree with now is that there was no brexit plan to examine and vote on, and that has now metamorphosised into 'give me a bigger majority to instigate the brexit that I want' without taking into account the closeness and the wishes of remainers, the (many) leavers who are now saying 'hang on, I didn't exactly vote for this' and also our EU colleagues. Instead we have talk of traitors, saboteurs, 'it'll be worse for them than us' and 'they had their chance, never changed the EU when they should so it'll be their fault if we cause it to all crash down, ****'em'
Yup. And she'll take this election as a mandate to deliver whatever brexit she wants, but will we know before the election what that means? (this works all ways; will it be hard enough for the nutters?)
Yes. I firmly believe leavers have no idea what the EU actually does, or how it benefits them.
FYI folks who believe the process can't be stopped - anyone telling you that is misguided themselves or deliberately trying to railroad you.
molgrips - Member
Yes. I firmly believe leavers have no idea what the EU actually does, or how it benefits them.
😆
Many of those who voted leave, knew exactly what Brussels was and was not doing for them.
However, in true lefty tradition, don't play the ball. Instead, play the Man and label all leavers as dumb, racist, etc, etc.
Because that way remainistas don't have to deal with the reality those who voted leave, were forced to deal with, in their daily lives.
Very classy!
😉
That's an interesting statement given the EU's parliament get a vote in the deal.
Because that way remainistas don't have to deal with the reality those who voted leave, was forced to deal with, in their lives.
Go on then, enlighten this poor lefty. What reality solo and why was it caused by the EU and not Westminster?
However, in true lefty tradition, don't play the ball. Instead, play the Man and label all leavers as dumb, racist, etc, etc.
And while you're at it, can you point out any really bright, non racist, leavers? Since I'd love you ask them for any real, concrete, benefits to Brexit.
@igm I suspect it would be sorted out with little fuss if it happened. However as yet no party is standing on that platform. Regrettably I think Brexit has now become normalised to many people, including remain voters, due to the incessant repetition of it being "will of the people" and "no going back" etc etc.
Matt we have 700 pages of such accusations here and the same over and over during the browder campaign. At least one STWer had a ban for calling another a racist.
Hamble @folgliettaz
Well the EU does "all those things" for France who pay a zero net contribution. I have a very good idea of what the EU "does for us" and its my opinion its not worth the cost, nothing like.
I've not read 700 pages. But the accusation solo makes at the other in this case is false.
I see a strong trend of self victimisation amongst leavers. Blame the other. There are disturbing historical parallels.
FWIW I've been called toe curling things by people I have disagreed with (I was recently put on a Twitter list called "next time an immigrant commits rape, blame them"). But I don't accuse the people who don't do it (and I am confidant would not support it).
The EU has brought peace and stability. Can't put a price on peace and not murdering millions of people.
Solo - I don't think all leavers are dumb racists. I think the bright ones have taken advantage of the dumb racists for their own ends.
I'm going to assume you are in the 'taking advantage' category.
So chapeau to you sir - what advantage have you gained? Perhaps I'll gain the same advantage and you'll have converted me to the cause.
And while you're at it, can you point out any really bright, non racist, leavers?
They do exist. I'll hopefully be sharing a pint with some in an hour or so.
Jamba seems like a bright lad too and I don't believe him to be racist.
Since I'd love you ask them for any real, concrete, benefits to Brexit.
The ability to negotiate our own trade deals seems like the most obvious one.
[i]Personally[/i] I think we were in a stronger position when we negotiated as a part of world's largest trading block. But I can see the opposing argument.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/20/falkland-islands-argentina-brexit ]https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/20/falkland-islands-argentina-brexit[/url]
And.....
Anyone shocked to hear this.........
Anyone................
FWIW I've been called toe curling things by people I have disagreed with (I was recently put on a Twitter list called "next time an immigrant commits rape, blame them"). But I don't accuse the people who don't do it (and I am confidant would not support it).
I wouldn't worry, growing up i was called a paddy bastard and a provo, amongst other anti irish things*. It is why i am not English and am now as May put it a citizen of nowhere. I had hoped i would never have to see that side of the English again, but i was sadly wrong.
*Yes i have an Irish surname, and a passport, but i have never lived there, infact i have spent 8 days in the republic in my life.
The EU has brought peace and stability. Can't put a price on peace and not murdering millions of people.
Peace brought about by 100,000's of largely American and British troops stationed in Germany, a more sympathetic approach to Germany post WW2 (ie no reparations) and NATO. Oh yes and nuclear weapons. The EU has contributed to instability with its political agenda to incorporate ex USSR nations. The (possible / likely) collapse of the euro could well lead to substantial instability especially in Southern Europe.
@mrmo The Guardian the numner 1 journal of the Remoaner. Note the word [b]could[/b] means you can write just about what you want. Who gives a toss what the EU thinks about the UK's governance of the Falklands ?
not really .
Peace because we dont seem to attack each other anymore .
but well done , good try .
Yes i have an Irish surname, and a passport, but i have never lived there, infact i have spent 8 days in the republic in my life.
Just as well. According to jambalaya, it's a backward country anyway.
@jambalaya - I suspect we share the same MP, have an appointment with her in just over a week which was arranged prior to election announcement. I've already had a dummy run with a local Councillor who was shocked at what I told him but have zero expectations of MP showing any interest. Shall have a darn good try when on the soapbox! 😀
I see a strong trend of self victimisation amongst leavers. Blame the other. There are disturbing historical parallels.
Well done for destroying your own point in two lines - very impressive.
The EU has contributed to instability with its political agenda to incorporate ex USSR nations.
Oh right. Nothing to do with Nato expanding eastwards then.
The (possible / likely) collapse of the euro could well lead to substantial instability especially in Southern Europe.
Repeating it won't make it come true.
jambalaya - Member
Peace brought about by 100,000's of largely American and British troops stationed in Germany, a more sympathetic approach to Germany post WW2 (ie no reparations) and NATO. Oh yes and nuclear weapons. The EU has contributed to instability with its political agenda to incorporate ex USSR nations. The (possible / likely) collapse of the euro could well lead to substantial instability especially in Southern Europe.
You don't have to demonstrate your lack of knowledge Jamba. It's not mandatory.
NATO undoubtedly plays its part, as does the ECHR and the EU including predecessors.
Actually I don't think you are demonstrating a lack of knowledge - I think you are willlfully ignoring what you know to be true.
War every 30 years or so in western Europe for centuries stops with the introduction of those 3 pillars.
And now you're old enough not to be called up, you want to disassemble them.
Not good Jamba not good.
Has Solo offered up any anti-Europe reality yet?
I may have missed it, but I am interested.
NATO defends the borders.
But this is the first time in history the 3 major powers of Western Europe - UK, France, Germany, have been at peace for an extended period.
The EU is very material to that.
Even if that's the only benefit of the EU, the fabled £350mm/week is loose change for the return.
-
Many of those who voted leave, knew exactly what Brussels was and was not doing for them.
However, in true lefty tradition, don't play the ball. Instead, play the Man and label all leavers as dumb, racist, etc, etc.
Because that way remainistas don't have to deal with the reality those who voted leave, were forced to deal with, in their daily lives.
Very classy!
Please elaborate.
I asked that yesterday. Haven't seen anything beyond that assertion yet.
Many of those who voted leave, knew exactly what Brussels was and was not doing for them.
I don't think you did.. but we'll find out if it stops doing it won't we 🙂
Oh and that's not playing the man - that would be if I called you an idiot or some other abuse.
And yes I fully appreciate the problems that huge numbers of people face daily. I do not live in a privileged bubble. However, I don't think those problems are caused by the EU, I think they could well get much worse after the vote.
If they improve (as I hope they do) it'll be because future governments have nowhere to hide any more and might start actually doing their job.
I do live in a privileged bubble, so can someone point out the daily problems caused by the EU please.
Help me to understand your plight.
I lucked my way into a privileged bubble so I also need some help on why the EU is causing daily problems for people that are 100% EU and nothing to do with our own government.
I do live in a privileged bubble, so can someone point out the daily problems caused by the EU please.Help me to understand your plight.
I have a couple of friends who work in trades and say their incomes have been reduced due to wage competition from EU incomers. I've no idea if that stands up to scrutiny, but that's what they say and that's directly why they voted leave.
I have a couple of friends who work in trades and say their incomes have been reduced due to wage competition from EU incomers. I've no idea if that stands up to scrutiny, but that's what they say and that's directly why they voted leave.
The only studies i have come across show no affect to maybe -2%.
Matt - heard that said too but like you I haven't seen any data that backs up that assertion.
Edit: so -2% max. Or less than the additional inflationary effect of Brexit.
They don't mean 2%.
I don't totally buy it myself but it's plausible.
But I don't think leaving will fix it for them - if there's less labour then their rates may rise a little but only until they hit the affordability ceiling, and if there's negative impact on the economy (we're in the SE so dependent on the City) then the market will contract. Less City bonuses = less spending on non-essential home upgrades.
And more DIY
Personally I think we were in a stronger position when we negotiated as a part of world's largest trading block. But I can see the opposing argument.
Graham, any post-pint-with-Jamba insights you can share?
Personally I think we were in a stronger position when we negotiated as a part of world's largest trading block. But I can see the opposing argument.
Strangely enough, I can't.
Strangely enough, I can't.
Me neither. It would presumably require the other party to treat the solo UK preferentially to the EU 27/28.
Does not compute.