[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

So even you think all racists voted for the least racist option but they all did so by mistake.

I've tried several times, but I can't get this sentence to make sense. So I'm not sure what you're accusing me of, but as far as making a mistake, yes - I think a huge proportion of Leave voters did so thinking that we'd have less Asians if we were outside Europe.

My example above bears this out.

So I offered to excuse anyone from my board brushstrokes if they could give me a non-racist, non-xenophobic and non-bigoted reason for voting leave.

I didn't vote leave but if you're looking for one reason then the one sometimes cited is the ability to do speedy trade deals with foreign nations like India and import a talented English speaking workforce from places like India. If it weren't for the difficulty of getting southern EU states to agree to a deal with India we'd already have one.

Shouldn't you have researched the case for and against *before* you voted, not on FB months afterwards?

are you having a bet to see how many posters posts you can completely misconstrue and then make up an argument from that they never said and the posts dont support?

is it friday down the pub day at work for you?

THM - a year ago I don't think I'd even contemplate agreeing with you on politics as often as I do now, me being a confirmed liberal lefty, champagne socialist type. So there's a positive. Though to be fair I've even managed to contemplate voting LibDem.

Not being tied to any political party means I have a varied selection of bedfellows at different times !! But yes, igm, nice to agree with you - and nothing wrong with Champagne!! Plus I am sympathetic to the plight of the LDs too and the crap they now have to carry (unfairly IMO). Just a pity that they represent Liberalism (with its heavy gov involvement) not Libertarianism!! 😉

Wow, I'm kinda new around here, so trying to get to grips with different posters' syles of debating, but I think I'm going to bow out of any discussion with Outofbreath... People like you make the Syria situation look straightforward.

Just read something on India. This ceo of a big Indian it business not happy with a hard Brexit. More costs and more hassle.

Though to be fair I've even managed to contemplate voting LibDem.

I think there are quite a lot of people presently in that unlikely position. Myself included.

Basically as they seem the only ones who aren't totally barking 😯

Dont they all have bad breath from the veggie diet and wear sandals with socks too? (could be wrong on both)

I'm prepared to overlook that as long as they're not

a) Marxists
b) Fascists

which appear to be the only two other rather retro 1930's options available at the moment

There was me expecting you to mock them for the leader being a born again christian who flip flops about between liberal and christian on gay rights 😉

I didn't vote leave but if you're looking for one reason then the one sometimes cited is the ability to do speedy trade deals with foreign nations like India and import a talented English speaking workforce from places like India. If it weren't for the difficulty of getting southern EU states to agree to a deal with India we'd already have one.

and yet....

"If people are not going to be able to travel," he told me, " and if the visas today restrict you, that you need to be either a UK visa or a European visa...it will not be possible to deliver business only from the UK."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37869225

It's the LibDems - he's not really a leader, more just the guy who books the room for the next meeting

I'm happy with that over both the alternatives at the moment

Perhaps that's why he's a lib deb?

If they had any sense, the lib dem would come out as pro eu. It might not win them a general election, but it would increase their chances.

If they had any sense, the lib dem would come out as pro eu

I thought they had? ISTR Farron being very pro EU on the radio a while back.

Not as far as saying they did not want Brexit for example.

If they had any sense, the lib dem would come out as pro eu. It might not win them a general election, but it would increase their chances.

Short of turning up to parliament in suits made from the EU flag I don't think they could make their position any clearer

If they had any sense, the lib dem would come out as pro eu

They don't have to 'come out'. Its always been their position. This led to a 20% swing at the Witney byelection.

They're going to challenge Zac Goldsmith (who's a fervent leaver) on that platform, in his constituency who voted 75% in favour of remain.

He thinks its going to be a vote about Heathrow expansion, he can walk it, then leave it a bit, and then re-joins the Tory party. I think he might well be in for a bit of a shock. He will be if the lib dems have owt to do with it. They want to make it a re-run of the referendum. Or a comment on it, at least

His cynical stunt may be about to spectacularly backfire. Lets hope so eh? He's an cynical racist ****!!

If Farron is halfway competent at booking the room every week, hes looking like a good option compared to the others

Corbyn, I still like but hes not getting his message across (or its not what I thought it was)

May, well her series of disasters as home sec were a warm up for her true magnum opus.... Brexishambles

So that leaves Farron, says what I want to hear, but born again christian, oh balls

His cynical stunt may be about to spectacularly backfire. Lets hope so eh?

Trouble is Zac the racist is very popular in richmond- hes a man of the people there (ie trust fund bigger than frances gdp)

5thElefant - Member

You have to be pretty bad at being racist to want to end immigration from predominantly white countries in favour of predominantly non-white countries.

This is absolute horseshit, though- and it's a perfect example of the sort of superficially-logical horseshit that leavers love.

Cutting EU immigration to increase non-EU immigration would favour them. So could increasing non-EU immigration. But neither of these are on the cards. What's planned is to cut non-EU immigration, and cut EU immigration. Both are worse off, it's not in either's favour. But hey, I'm sure they'll be pleased that it's "fair"

That isn't "in favour of predominantly non-white countries"- they just get the blunt end of the shitty stick, while other people get the pointy end.

Short of turning up to parliament in suits made from the EU flag I don't think they could make their position any clearer

The Liberal Democrats remain a proudly pro-European party.

ame thing they will campaign to stay
Not sure how you have missed all this - I guess they really do get no media air time

This is absolute horseshit, though

The best you can say is they want to decide who can come here and the most likely answer is no one.

I’m actually p155ing my pants.

There was nothing concrete offered by the "Leave" campaign as a real benefit to the UK that would be gained by leaving.

None. Read up on what the "out" campaign managers thought of "facts".

There was speculation that things "would be better". There was a "hope" things would be "better", but nothing to back it up. If I (we) are wrong, where the hell is it?

If things we're "that bad", I'd have considered a leave vote - better a change of hell than the same hell....

But all we got was: "If you just trust us, things will be better". I have heard that before.

But as you zoom in, as you examine each Brexiteers "hopes & dreams" for leaving, it becomes clear it is a horrific pantheon of fascism:

"Get rid".
"Throw out".
"Ban".
"Get out".
"Stop".
"Britain First"

This isn't a politics. This isn't the voice of change: it's bloody fascism: An absence of politics. An absence of discussion. An absence of tolerance.

"Just shut up and get on with it".

Where's the democracy in that?

What beggars belief is that the remainers aren't pissing their pants.

Non UK and "thinking" of leaving? You're a mug - get out before your thrown out (but we'll "look after" your money and house).

Think a few "robust" discussions on Facebook or stern words at a "hustings" is going to turn heads? Mugs.

Go read upon how "they" tried to "discuss" with the National Socialists in Germany - or the "National Socialists" of any age, any country. A bit more worried, now?

Is no one worried that their Facebook exchanges, their Singletrack quips & amusing tweets won't shortly be used as "evidence"?

"Oh but it won't happen here! It can't happen here, [s]Adolf [/s][s]Theresa [/s][s]Nigel [/s]"they" wouldn't allow it."

Yeah, right.

You believe things are "complicated", things are "nuanced". Quid pro Quo... Give an take. Checks and balances. Subtle differences and labouring to agreements. You wouldn't expect to dictate terms and have people “just get on with it”, would you?

Now look into their eyes, and see how simple it is to them.

P155ing your pants now?

EDIT

FFS there their there their there their.

"The best you can say is they want to decide who can come here a the most likely answer is no one."

Doesn't sound racist to me.

[img] [/img]

-1 and light snow in Sundsvall, Sweden. -3 and sunny with a dusting of snow on the ground in Helsinki.

"to cut non-EU immigration,"

You can't cut non-EU immigration. It's been pared to the bone.

You probably can't cut EU immigration either because we need the workforce. Perhaps you can pick and choose a bit but the quality of our imported work force is already sky high. We cream off the best without the Govt helping to choose.

outofbreath - Member

You can't cut non-EU immigration. It's been pared to the bone.

Tell Amber Rudd that.

BaronVonP7 - Member

Is no one worried that their Facebook exchanges, their Singletrack quips & amusing tweets won't shortly be used as "evidence"?

"Oh but it won't happen here! It can't happen here, Adolf Theresa Nigel "they" wouldn't allow it."

Yeah, right.

This very thought has crossed my mind, so much so that I've considered shutting down from social media.

Is no one worried that their Facebook exchanges, their Singletrack quips & amusing tweets won't shortly be used as "evidence"?

I'll be gone before it gets that bad.

Putting money aside.

I'll be gone before it gets that bad.

Putting money aside.

Will you send food parcels? Even some brake pads. Or gear cables. Don't forget us, please!

You can't cut non-EU immigration. It's been pared to the bone.

More non-EU than EU immigration last time I checked. That doesn't mean it's either too low or too high. Or right.

b r said:
Is your mate an expert in these matters, as in, does he understand the impact of us possibly losing tariff-free access to the worlds largest trading bloc in the meantime while we somehow sort these trade deals out?

No of course he's not an expert. Are any of us?

He initially started off as a Remainer but did his research, weighed it up and came to a rational non-racist conclusion that happened to be different from mine. I fully respect that and it makes for interesting chat in the pub 😀

The important point is that it is perfectly possible to have rational carefully considered well-thought-out reasons to leave.

My exit strategy is in place it's partially mental partially geographical I. E cease giving a * most of the time and * off to south of France for the rest of the time (visa permitting)

Incidentally, regarding trade deals, I read an article the other day that mentioned that [i]"Britain currently has X trade deals with other countries"[/i] (can't remember what X was. 30-odd I think)

Question: are all of those existing deals through the EU? Or do we have any historical ones that pre-date our EU membership and are still active?

Will you send food parcels? Even some brake pads. Or gear cables. Don't forget us, please!

Might not be able to. They could trace me.

My Dad's great aunt or something married one of Henry Ford's sons, the story goes. She used to send back odd gifts like a lush fur coat, pearls or an oil painting - this was to a poor South Wales mining town. What's the use of that, they thought, when the hell am I ever going to wear a fur coat? They gave them to the kids to play with.

Dawned on them later that, unable to send money, she was sending the most expensive stuff she could find with the idea that they'd sell it. D'oh.

so you could send us XTR kit

when £10 = 1$ I could feed my family for a month of some m9000 cranks

What the Brexiteers fail to recognise is that immigration is the result - not the cause - of what they perceive (or have been told my the Daily Mail) is Broken Britain.

For decades, the Liberal Left have told us that we're all entitled to 'respect', whether we've earned it or not. And now we have a generation of Britons that think they're great because they've been told they're great. They think that any 'menial' work is beneath them, so they're happy to accept benefits instead. And they still think they deserve respect??

Sorry sunshine, I'll give my respect to someone who gets of his backside and does whatever job is necessary, even if he and his family are only 30 or 40 quid a week better off than if he was watching Jeremy Kyle repeats all day.

I'll give my respect to the Pole that leaves his home, his family, his country, and travels here and works the clock round for minimum wage, living in squalor so his family can have a better life.

It's people like that who make a country great, not the lazy b*****ds that play the system to avoid getting work, yet enjoy a relatively comfortable lifestyle at the state's expense.

And all the while, the press tell them that it's immigrants who are to blame for their circumstances, their lack of a job, their lack of prospects.

And then, some idiot gives them the chance to bet everything on a single hand of blackjack. Stick or twist? What's the stake? Who knows... What's the prize? Who knows. And the silly twunts twisted. 🙁

Kimbers, down the market, later:

[img] [/img]

what they perceive (or have been told my the Daily Mail) is Broken Britain.
...
It's people like that who make a country great, not the lazy b*****ds that play the system to avoid getting work, yet enjoy a relatively comfortable lifestyle at the state's expense.

Sounds like you are a victim of exactly the same BS press agenda to be honest. They've got you blaming folk on benefits instead of immigrants but it's all part of the same peddled hatred and blame-shifting.

They've got you blaming folk on benefits instead of immigrants...

Back in town, local UKIP councillor Stephen Raven gives a blunt answer why many locals refuse to do the picking and packing agriculture jobs: because "we're lazy".

Er... That doesn't [i]sound [/i]like we're getting played... Sounds brutal, but possibly true.

They've got you blaming folk on benefits instead of immigrants but it's all part of the same peddled hatred and blame-shifting.

It's not about blame, it's about reasons. The reason we have have immigration is due to skills shortages in some sectors, and labour shortages in unskilled sectors. If that is the case, there's no genuine reason for unemployment of those deemed fit to work.

I can't remember where I read the statistics, so I'm afraid I can't provide a link, but Leave votes amongst the unemployed were significantly higher than in the working population.

So the unemployed were voting for Brexit; we kinda know that immigration was the biggest deciding factor; and their justification is that foreigners are taking their jobs!

So the last bit is right, but for some reason, they seem to have completely forgotten the bit where they have the opportunity to take those jobs, but they haven't.

You can't cut non-EU immigration. It's been pared to the bone.

CMD's target for total net migration - tens of thousands - so lets say 30k (makes the maths easy)
Current pared-to-the-bone (sic) non-EU migration - 188k
Actual 6x target (leaving aside EU migration)
Not exactly pared to the bone

[apologies to clod for bringing data into the debate = please ingore as it will be wrong, biased and irrelevant]

The reason we have have immigration is due to skills shortages in some sectors, and labour shortages in unskilled sectors

No don't you start bringing the truth into the debate now - repeat after me, "British jobs for British workers", "They steal our jobs and depress our wages", "Kick the buggers out". Twenty times should do it for a first offence.