[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

there is no certainty at all about what will happen.

Even now you cannot have a non-EU bride unless you earn a certain minimum amount in the UK per year ... think it might be £32k per year or something like that.

D'oh! I think I need to forget ordering Russian bride. 🙁

Geordie lass ... they would deck me ... 😯

Since jambalaya and chewkw took over this thread it has turned to a pile of poo. arrêter si vous plaît

If we don't keep it going people loose interest, feel free to post regularly - dilute our input as it where

wicki - Member

Since jambalaya and chewkw took over this thread it has turned to a pile of poo. arrêter si vous plaît

c'est la vie 🙄

Since jambalaya and chewkw took over this thread it has turned to a pile of poo.

slowoldman - Member

Since jambalaya and chewkw took over this thread it has turned to a pile of poo.

Well that's probably the standard of debate we can expect.

If you want standard then go read some research journals or something coz they have someone(s) to peer reviewed the materials written.

You have standard? Where?

Who say you have standard? 😯

You don't try you don't know. Simple.

For example, if you don't go to Ozland how do you know there are plenty of gold nuggets to prosper from eh? If you remain in BritLand you will always wonder if there is such thing as picking gold nuggets from the ground in Ozland innit!

You need to employ a better argument than that.

For example:

How do you know a flame is hot & that to touch it would be a bad idea? Oh, I know I'll stick my finger in it & find out - which is on a par with your example I've quoted above.

If you are going to try & persuade folks to change their mind try using a cogent argument with some FACTS.

mrlebowski - Member

You need to employ a better argument than that.

For example:

How do you know a flame is hot & that to touch it would be a bad idea? Oh, I know I'll stick my finger in it & find out - which is on a par with your example I've quoted above.

Flame is hot. Fact. You want to touch the flame then be my guest. I wouldn't.

However, I know Ozland is a big continent so perhaps there are gold nuggets paved on the road as I was once told ... 😆 Therefore, until you go there you don't know.

If you want to touch the flame then be my guest as I know what flame is like but I don't know the gold nuggets paved on Ozland ... 😆

If you are going to try & persuade folks to change their mind try using a cogent argument with some FACTS.

I doubt I can change their mind and I don't intend to.

I am here to point out that they are wrong, absolutely wrong and I told them so. 😛

Ya, I say they are wrong.

I doubt I can change their mind and I don't intend to.

I am here to point out that they are wrong, absolutely wrong and I told them so.

Then why are you posting on this thread?

Perhaps you should give up, as your impassioned rhetoric is as about as much use as a chocolate fireguard if you can't/won't/dont provide facts to back yourself up.

Otherwise, your POV is just a massive leap in the dark & as such many will not subscribe to it.

If you genuinely wish to change folks minds then I suggest you change your tactics....IMHO.

mrlebowski - Member
Then why are you posting on this thread?

Perhaps you should give up, as your impassioned rhetoric is as about as much use as a chocolate fireguard if you can't/won't/dont provide facts to back yourself up.

Otherwise, your POV is just a massive leap in the dark & as such many will not subscribe to it.

If you genuinely wish to change folks minds then I suggest you change your tactics....IMHO.

Facts? We will be in total paralysis if we have to question the rationale behind all research techniques that lead to the "answer".

That's a cop out.

Some people cannot be convinced until they confront the situation head on, even then they might still attribute it to something else that causes it. They simply cannot accept the alternative(s). Cannot, will not and shall not even in death

That's just waffle.

Your new to this aren't you Mr Lebowski...
It's hard sometimes (we all slip up every so often) but try not to feed it especially after midnight

mrlebowski - Member
That's a cop out.

That's just waffle.

mr chewkw might get lost in translation..

I personally don't find his contributions particularly helpful but I am self aware enough to realise that the fault lies with me and not him

mikewsmith - Member
Your new to this aren't you Mr Lebowski...
It's hard sometimes (we all slip up every so often) but try not to feed it especially after midnight

yunki - Member

mr chewkw might get lost in translation..

I personally don't find his contributions particularly helpful but I am self aware enough to realise that the fault lies with me and not him

For some reason he reminds me of Fred.....

Why is that?

Oh yeah they were both a total waste of time & the only thing they cared about was being the centre of attention.....

mrlebowski - Member

For some reason he reminds me of Fred.....

Why is that?

Oh yeah they were both a total waste of time & the only thing they cared about was being the centre of attention.....

C'mon! C'mon!

I just view things differently from you lot or you people that's all. 😛

You might also learn something new who knows.

Well that's probably the standard of debate we can expect.

Even now you cannot have a non-EU bride unless you earn a certain minimum amount in the UK per year ... think it might be £32k per year or something like that.

About the only sensible point you have raised and it goes against your argument for leaving, well done.

FWIW the minimum income rates are here:

You must have an income of at least 18,600.
If you are sponsoring a child as well as a partner you will need an income of at least 22,400.

I know for most middle class STWers this is small change (barely buys one a car these days let alone a watch) but for a good many people it throws up a significant barrier to their return to the UK.

How the mail flips and flops around, imagine the story if it was Brussels want's to ban out bouncy castles
[img] [/img]

squirrelking - Member
About the only sensible point you have raised and it goes against your argument for leaving, well done.

FWIW the minimum income rates are here:

See I am talking in the right direction but just too lazy to look for the details. I know someone would put the right information up and this goes to prove my point that the logic is there but I just really can be arsed to also list all the details. 😛

mikewsmith - Member
How the mail flips and flops around, imagine the story if it was Brussels want's to ban out bouncy castles

First on the BBC front page round up

The truth about EU immigration numbers please.

The official UK Statistics Agency has asked the ONS (Office National Statistics) provide clarity on the accuracy, or more likely inaccuracy, of their EU migration statistics. This is for the very obvious reason that they appear to be massively understated amd at odds with figures from other departments. ONS claims 1m EU immigrants, Department for Work received 2.3m requests for National Insurance Numbers. The ONS only reports thise who have officially registered but as its not necessary to register its clear their figures are likely to be massively understated.

Poll of UK researchers on impact of leaving the EU

http://www.nature.com/news/scientists-say-no-to-uk-exit-from-europe-in-nature-poll-1.19636

[img] [/img]

Even the torygraph agree

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/02/lord-darzi-leaving-the-eu-would-be-disastrous-for-uk-science-and/

I can't see the outies having any response to this

And this:

[url= http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21693568-david-cameron-will-struggle-win-referendum-britains-eu-membership-if-he-loses ]Economist[/url]

The trouble with this kind of stuff is the same as you get with climate change arguments, it will end up being discussed on the major news channels as a 50/50 argument. 1 stay scientist and 1 brexit scientist.

That article doesn't actually say anything tangible will be lost by leaving, its a perfect example of un substantiated hype and scaremongering

I'm still out, even if only because the remains are obviously talking complete and utter bollox and anyone that desperate makes me nervous.

That article doesn't actually say anything tangible will be lost by leaving

@kimbers interesting, I wonder how those 1000/666 (mostly young?) researchers voted in the last General Election. I think there is a major "lefty" selection bias reflecting other factors than just research funding. Also a bit of a shocker that 334 edicated individuals or 33% of the sample aren't going to vote unless of course a big chunk of those researchers are not uk citizens and have no actual right to vote ?

I see your University researchers and raise you Sol Campell who published a long piece about how Leave wouod help develop UK football talent by reducing the influx of European players. So there you have it job done, its in the bag 😯

Jambas - truth about immigration is important - stop folk making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims about "many millions of Poles" entering the UK. Ring a bell?!? 😉

That article doesn't actually say anything tangible will be lost by leaving, its a perfect example of un substantiated hype and scaremongering

There is an interesting phrase above about "we would be more open to researchers from outside the EU who we currently discriminate against" it seems this is aimed at free movement of people, the flip side is we just discriminate against all foreigners...

A bit of a PSA to those living outside the UK
You can register to vote here https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote
You need to register before the 18th April for the EU Referendun

Sadly non-domiciled so cannot vote but watching this with interest.

You don't have to live in the UK to vote in the referendum (which is a minor outrage): https://www.gov.uk/government/world-location-news/did-you-know-expats-will-be-able-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum

Noted with thanks, will register

I still don't understand the scientific research in or out arguments, whether in or out the UK could still contribute to the big facilities like CERN and ITER, so I see little changing there. It would reduce the amount of EU postdocs coming over, but there is argument to say that would allow UK talent to get places they are currently excluded from.

Collaborations and information sharing etc. wouldn't change.

unless of course a big chunk of those researchers are not uk citizens and have no actual right to vote ?

Almost certainly, the big Uni's have been favouring EU researchers over UK ones for years. The best analogy is it is like the Premier League where the top Uni's can pick the best researchers and make no effort to try and develop home talent from the lower leagues as happened in years gone by.

I found this article interesting,although I'm still voting out.He just confirmed my thoughts about the lack of democracy from those in power.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/05/yanis-varoufakis-why-we-must-save-the-eu

Jambas - truth about immigration is important - stop folk making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims about "many millions of Poles" entering the UK. Ring a bell?!?

@Busta Greece cannot survive as a developed nation without the EU. Yanis seems to think democracy meams you can vote not to pay back your debts and yet continue to live off the back of the rest of the EU. The rest of fhe eurozone should get a referendum on whether to continue to support Greece, that would be democratic

Very interesting program on radio four with that Greek economist, enlightening about the Germans approach to Greek debt default and the Greeks financial situation prior to joining the EU.

Basically Germany is Wonga and Greece is your Gran sold a stair lift they didn't need and couldn't pay for and now Wonga is playing hardball and lending them more money but keeping 90% to service the debt.

Bit confused @tmh, last two census shows Polish going from a tiny community to 2nd largest at over 1m (EU freedom of movement) plus other research point to true figure being closer to 2m.

Many is more than one no ?

Good to see Cameron and Osbourne being attacked and weakened ahead of fhe Referendum. 😀 Law of Unintended Consequences.

@wilburt have heard that line of argument many times especially from Greeks - the "it wasn't me" defence. Reality is very different a country corrupt to the core with cash on the side a standard requirement to get anything done, a series of governments who have bribed the electorate with a series of unafforadble giveaways. Greece's asmission to the EU was a classic piece of politics over economics and their admission to the euro was an appalling decison and one Sarkozy openly says was a mistake. Greece has a track record of financial incompetance and default so to give them access to the euro borrowing honeypot was always going to end in tears.

many is more than one no?

Almost certainly, the big Uni's have been favouring EU researchers over UK ones for years. The best analogy is it is like the Premier League where the top Uni's can pick the best researchers and make no effort to try and develop home talent from the lower leagues as happened in years gone by.