[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

[i] captainsasquatch - Member
The more I see of the arguments, the more convinced I am that there is clear polarization and absolutely no movement from one side to the other.

I woukd consider uprooting and moving to the EU if there is a exit vote.[/i]

A perfectly sensible idea. Could take Kimbers with you?
🙂

I woukd consider uprooting and moving to the EU if there is a exit vote.

[i] konabunny - Member
I woukd consider uprooting and moving to the EU if there is a exit vote.

Don't forget your life jacket[/i]

A bit dramatic, but in keeping with the strategy of project fear.

But the Capt makes a good point. If you like Europe so much, the Alps, ease of travel, cheap beer.
Then just relocate, to Europe. No need to drag the UK with you.
😉

Tbh this thread has given me no reason to contemplate an exit, all of the go is based on hope and fear of eu failure. Promises of trade with the rest of the world being easy and awesome and the eu just admitting we can have all the good bits for free. If that's the case then this is being typed up by my PA Gillian Anderson

Don't forget your life jacket

[img] [/img]

I woukd consider uprooting and moving to the EU if there is a exit vote.

Catch 22 - in the event of Brexit you won't be allowed to!

So folk who don't agree with your pov are gullable, daily mail reading, Xenophobes

Well as you've not been able to articulate a single reason why we should leave, I can only assume your position is based on kneejerk dislike of EU

and I can't don't want to see an upside to leaving.

Is probably closer to the reason behind a lot of the remainistas comments here.

Catch 22 - in the event of Brexit you won't be allowed to!

The irony isn't lost on me.
Makes me wonder what's going to happen to all the expats who are currently benefitting from freedom of movement.

Well, according to an article on the BBC website, they are all reading the Daily Mail and planning to vote "leave" to stop the UK from being over-run by immigrants.

😆

And according to jambyfacts the eu countries love them so much they can stay and do whatever they like.

This really made me laugh in yesterdays Guardian

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/06/brexit-campaign-divided-nations-plonkers-where-do-i-stand ]It used to be easy to work out an opinion: find out what people like Louise Mensch and Piers Morgan believe – and then think the opposite. And then the EU referendum came along …[/url]

[i]with the bellend brigade splintered down the middle and scattered across both sides of the argument, the whole thing has descended into chaos. [/i]

😆

And according to jambyfacts the eu countries love them so much they can stay and do whatever they like.

Yeah - I'm trying to reconcile blocking jamby with my lack of understanding of the guy who says he doesn't read fiction.

[i] Gowrie - Member
No Solo that won't do. [/i]
Oh, that will do.

[i]Other than trade, movement of people and sovereignty, there's been little or no discussion of the reasons why we would want to leave. Now I've considered trade, movement of people and sovereignty. [/i]
And you would have us believe you have considered all those matters, absolutely free of personal bias, politics and preference?
Riiiiight 😉

However:
[i]Catch 22 - in the event of Brexit you won't be allowed to!
The irony isn't lost on me.Makes me wonder what's going to happen to all the expats who are currently benefitting from freedom of movement[/i]

In light of such ridiculous/scaremongering views on BREXIT. Is it really any wonder that this thread has demonstrated, for the umpteenth time. Theres nothing to learn from or inform one's opinion, in this thread?

Last year a friend moved to the US. Thing is, last time I checked. The UK isn't a member state of the USA. Furthermore, just as when/if the UK does leave the EU, there will not be deportations and a ceasation of immigration in the UK. Nor will Brits be expelled from the EU.

Fearists be fearing!

Last year a friend moved to the US. Thing is, last time I checked. The UK isn't a member state of the USA. Furthermore, just as when/if the UK does leave the EU, there will not be deportations and a ceasation of immigration in the UK. Nor will Brits be expelled from the EU.

So again another Brexit poster can't give any reasons... Come on solo give us a clue

And it's this lack of tolerance, and clear divide in attitude, that makes leaving the UK so much easier.

[b]Getting a sarky remark is not being tolerated so you want to leave the country?[/b] Those Syrian guys should probably feel sorry for you.

[i] captainsasquatch - Member
And the knee jerking works the other way too...Your friend is correct in that they could move and work in the USA, but it wasn't a right and they will have had to have jumped through one or two hoops to do so.As a UK citizen I could hop on a plane, land in Paris this afternoon and start working this evening with no more hassle than if I were moving to Brighton. I have a right to move to and live in any mamber state.[/i]

Ah, yes, that "knee jerking" does indeed seem to work in the opposite direction. So, here we are back to lifestyle and convenience being the reason to stay.
😆

[i] mikewsmith - Member
So again another Brexit poster can't give any reasons.[/i]
I could write the same about the fearist remainistas.
Convenience and lifestyle are not sufficient reasons to force those who believe they would like the UK to leave, to remain.

Right. Lots to do.
🙂

As I posted I expect most expats in Spain etc won't vote as they are not registered (see stats referenced earlier and my theory as to why not). What they think is therefore irrelevant.

I think my father sums up what many think, lifelong Labour voter who voted Yes to a Common Market in 1970's will now vote Leave as he believes the EU to have morphed into failed a politcal project.

From believing the Remain campaign had a significant in-built advantage this is now fading fast

UK on the hook for a total of £500m as a rssult of EU incompetence at managing refugee crisis and ludicrous expanded Schengen system. Turkey has secured numerous concessions including reopening of EU negotiations, fairllay to thrm as they've got what they wanted by turining a blind eye to the people smuggljng

So basically you can't give a reason. I'm searching the flounce pics...

We will have visa exchange agreements with France etc. There are plenty of non-EU workers and residents in France

If expat Brits in Spain where really concerned about the consequences of Brexit they'd register to vote. Portugal offers 10 years tax free if you reture there, they will extend that to Brits under a Brexit scenario, thats my belief. Spain will do something similar. All of this can be worked out over the 2+ years we are negotiating trade deals before we trigger Article 50

Other than trade, movement of people and sovereignty, there's been little or no discussion of the reasons why we would want to leave. Now I've considered trade, movement of people and sovereignty.

And you would have us believe you have considered all those matters, absolutely free of personal bias, politics and preference?

Plenty of Brits take gap year jobs in Australia having applied for 6 month visas, likewose people emmigrating there. Its not rocket science.

The theoretcal benefit of "jumping on the eurostar and taking a job in Paris" is exactly that. Its one which isn't actually greatly used particualrly in comparison with the many millions of Eastern Europeans who come to the UK as we are a much richer country with much higher wages and much more generous welfare support. The benefits we enjoy are far outweighed by the costs. We would as a nation be far better off financially with a system of controlled visa based immigration. The continued EU expansion will be based upon a greater number of ever poorer nations with much to gain and little to offer which could not be better gained via alternative means. The EU is a political superstate project and one which has been shown to be a failure with respect to its flagship policies

..in comparison with the many millions of Eastern Europeans who come to the UK

Many millions, really? The stats tell a v different story.

and much more generous welfare support.

Which is not the reason why the come nor why they are here - that's mere scaremongering. Try to work and/or to study?

The benefits we enjoy are far outweighed by the costs.

Au contraire, mon ami - at the level of migration or anything else

The theoretcal benefit of "jumping on the eurostar and taking a job in Paris" is exactly that. Its one which isn't actually greatly used

And on the au contraire theme, this is what the ONS states on the topic

The UK was the EU country with the largest net outflow of domestic nationals in the period 2000 to 2007. Net emigration of domestic nationals from the UK has fallen in recent years, from a peak of around 124,000 in 2006 to 43,000 in 2010. However, it has increased since then and was 57,000 in 2013. In 2013, only Poland had a higher net outflow of domestic nationals than the UK (96,000), while Italy had a broadly similar net outflow of domestic nationals (54,000).

As I posted I expect most expats in Spain etc won't vote as they are not registered (see stats referenced earlier and my theory as to why not).

Yeah, I remember. You said

Only 11,000 registered to vote - my guess as to why...they are registered as living in the UK as that way they get indexed linked state pension

And you were told:

All uk pensioners living in EEA countries get index linked pension payments:

But somehow you forgot that #jambafact

As someone who has jumped on the Eurostar and got a job in Paris (Rosyth-Zeebrugge ferry, in fact, but same principle), as well as jumped on other transport and got jobs in other EU countries, I can report that it was quite painless, and considerably easier than if I had been a non-EU citizen.

As someone who also worked in the US, I can also report, again from personal experience and not from fantasy world, that it was a very considerable hassle - so much so that some major employers do not support Green Card applications even if the candidate is highly qualified.

Despite having personally gained a lot from EU membership, I am still on the fence about how to vote, bearing in mind the anti-democratic instincts shown by the EU in last years Greek crisis, and reinforced by their current willingness to even consider Turkey as a suitable addition.

Gowrie - Member

You have plenty of catching up to do then

I'm not the one who's behind.

Yes, you are.

Try to keep "your" concept of democracy contain in the west.

As long as they can contain their population I ain't bother about their concept of governance.

Expansionism? How about [b]gunboat[/b] diplomacy? 😆

jambalaya - Member

particualrly in comparison with the many millions of Eastern Europeans who come to the UK

How many millions is "many"? Less than one?

As long as they can contain their population I ain't bother about their concept of governance.

In answer to the original question, I'm just doing the hookie cookie

How about gunboat diplomacy?

Gowrie - Member

As long as they can contain their population I ain't bother about their concept of governance.

There's your trouble.
As I said, I don't share your view of the world. As for gunboats, you'll be aware the Chinese are building islands off the coast of the Phillipines to help them in their territorial claims over most of the South China Sea.

Yes, I am aware of the situation but there is nothing the world can do about it unless of course you want to nuke them. I don't like the situation but then all of them can do the same damage to the fish stock or the environment there ...

They will consume resources like nothing you have seen before as the dragon has woken up ...

As you know I am an advocate of nuking and population reduction so unless you want to nuke them you have to bow to them ... 😯

Is it me or are the Outies loosing the plot a bit?
Borris suddenly denying the memo he wrote (granted hes not a true believer its all about his next job)

Rhees Mogg throwing a hissy fit because Carney answered a question with an answer moggy didnt like

The Sun making up stuff about the Queen, - palace now complaining to the oh so effective press authority (rumours the story came from gove might limit his future invites to tea)

There are 1+ million Poles here according to the census and other estimates put the number at closer to 2 million. The census prior to the last one Poles didn't feature in top 20 nationalities (from memory) now they are second. All of this due to them joining the EU and getting freedom of access.

I can stand corrected on index linking of state pensions, they must have fixed that.

I would also fit into the group of people very happy to live abroad who are voting Leave. Two seperate things.

Yes getting a work visa can be difficult, as it damn well should be. If we need doctors, nurses, plumbers, agricultural labourers etc we should take the best

@kimbers, I think its you 😉 Leave campaign is on a real roll here, hopefully we haven't peaked too soon. EU better for business is being contradicted daily with business leaders coming out as Leave, making the 1/3rd of FTSE bosses who signed up to Remain look quite tame.

Catch 22 - in the event of Brexit you won't be allowed to!

Regarding the increasingly febrile statements being bandied about in the press.
Last week there was an article by Andrew Rawnsley about the standard of the debate by the in and out campaigns so far, which, for those who have an aversion to reading Guardian articles can be boiled down to:

If you’re whingeing, you’re losing

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/06/eu-referendum-out-campaign-whingeing-

This was before Carney/Queen/BCC boss etc.

Still not many millions though is it? And they come firstly to work (positive contribution) or secondly to study. The %age that come here for benefits/economically draining is small. So the xenopohic scaremongering from the outers, should remain in that context.

Its on odd roll that Leave are on given that polls show increased support for staying in EU?!???

The whining over Carney is arguably worse than yS BS particularly Lawsons diatribe.

There are 1+ million Poles here according to the census and other estimates put the number at closer to 2 million.

2013 ONS data shows the estimate to be 688k of Polish born UK residents. Obviously there will now be quite a few Polish nationals born here 🙂

jambalaya - Member

There are 1+ million Poles here according to the census

Jambafact, obviously... Actually the census says 672033 Polish-born in the UK. And it took about 2 seconds to check

What's really odd is that the new fib about the census numbers also flatly contradicts the first fib about there being many millions, as does the higher and completely unsubstantiated up to 2 million from "other estimates". When even jambafacts contradict themselves, who can we trust?

Yup the outies are rolling somewhere
http://www.theweek.co.uk/eu-referendum/65461/eu-referendum-polls-what-will-the-choice-come-down-to

The term "Project Fear" is being used a lot. As an EU supporter, this is the second time I have come under it's spell.

As an anti-EU the Fear Project comes from the lefties and the ZM bureaucrats.

I suspect the "IN" will win due of generations of brain juice leakage ... 😮

For the "IN" the 60 years of good life must go on regardless.

Borrow and spend, borrow and spend, increase public services, borrow and spend, borrow more ... strike, borrow more and spend ... blame others ... borrow more and spend ... good life is a right ... not earned but a human rights. More borrow money ... spend, spend, spend and blame China. 😯

Somebody call the vet , maybe even the RSPCA...there's some ponies around here that have been abused so much they're nearly dead.... circuses really should be banned....