Trade standards.. Hmm. Whilst we may be able to slash environmental or safety standards to undercut the EU, which works kd be fantastic, we would still have to meet the standards anyway in order to trade, surely? So again it would be no different to now except we would have no say in the legislation. Sounds perfect.
Junker was forced on us against our wishes. At least "we" got our own back by someone leaking all the PWC documents showing how many sweet tax deals he'd signed off. Formal invetigation followed and Luxmbourg guilty of illegal state aid.
I am not sure any have been found to be illegal yet, but I have no doubt some if not all will, of course this shows how the EU is effective as there would be no equivalent sanction if we were outside it.
What is the simple point that people seem to keep evading is that it won't be as easy, as profitable or as competitive unless we have free trade agreements such as those that Norway have - which they pay for.
My background is in manufacturing, precision engineering to be precise. I've bought and sold from countries all over the globe, which has always been done on merit. Maybe some of you have experience of favouritism from within the EU, but I don't.
which delivers the UK a great marketplace and provides massive opportunity at a very low cost.
I'm not sure that tens of millions a day is "a very low cost".
I've bought and sold from countries all over the globe, which has always been done on merit.
For most people, price is also important. Price of imports is partially determined by duties. The level of duty charged depends on whether you have a customs union, a free trade agreement or nothing.
Snob, after the rebate our cost IS low in absolute and relative terms however much Farrage and his ilk try to pretend otherwise
Less than 0.5% of UK GDP as our net contribution. CBI reckons benefits from membership might be in the order of 4-5% of GDP (£62-£78bn).
I wonder if we will ever get a referendum to move towards a federal Europe?
What I don't understand from you Brexiters - if the economy is going to be the same, and trade isn't going to be disrupted and movement of UK folks to the continent will be largely unaffected in practical terms - why the H**l do you want out?
Anyone who imagines that the EU has anything to do with democracy would do well to examine the democratic credentials of Turkey, currently on course to speed up its integration into the European "family".
Is Turkey more, less or equally likely to indiscriminately shoot Kurds if it were brought into the EU?
Well I don't know. But it doesn't bode well that they can do so, along with closing newspapers and jailing journalists with no negative consequences whosoever.
Is Turkey more, less or equally likely to indiscriminately shoot Kurds if it were brought into the EU?
I'm going with more; the weapons and ammunition will be cheaper and violent psychopaths will have the freedom to work there without waiting for a visa.
For most people, price is also important. Price of imports is partially determined by duties. The level of duty charged depends on whether you have a customs union, a free trade agreement or nothing.
Doesn't seem to have stopped, for example, Chinese made bikes and bike parts coming into the UK
Anyone who imagines that the EU has anything to do with democracy would do well to examine the democratic credentials of Turkey, currently on course to speed up its integration into the European "family".
Europe has been moving away from integration with Turkey since they last rejected their entry, and Turkey seems to have given up and unfortunately democracy is fading their. It is almost a shame, if they had continued on the path towards europe it would have been good for Turkish democracy, but the rejection was right as things were, and even more so now.
I said I was 'out' at the start of this & nothings changed.
but the rejection was right as things were, and even more so now.
so it's a shame that the convenience of having Turkey as a border guard is weighing more heavily than the gross abuse of human rights and values in the EU's calculations.
Doesn't seem to have stopped, for example, Chinese made bikes and bike parts coming into the UK
Did anyone say it would? China has an advantage of cheap labour, slack h&s standards and massive over capacity along with a massive state controlled/manipulated economy which has makes the products cheaper even with important duty. Will the UK move to this position?
MSP Turkey is making the reopening of membership discussins a condition of "playing ball" in the refugee crises, that and €6bn
@Growie the Leave argument is that our trade and business will be improved as we'll be able to better align with growing global markets like Asia as opposed to stagnating / about to explode Economies and new members desperate to join who comrpise poor or very challenged economies, eg Eastern Europe / Turkey.
I thought Schwable's comments where interesting - Brexit would be "poison" he said for US, EU and UK. You see this is his issue, a Brexit is "poison" for a very weak EU facing a Greek defualt and a migrant crises largely of its own making. That explains his, Germany and the EU's perspective - vested interest. He wants the UK in the EU to help sort out their mess. FWIW he's wrong about it being poison for the UK, it would be hugely liberating.
the Leave argument is that our trade and business will be improved as we'll be able to better align with growing global markets like Asia as opposed to stagnating / about to explode Economies
So what is stopping us doing that at the moment?
Half of the Brexit posts go on about how easy it is to do trade with any country in the world, but now we need out of the EU to trade with the rest of the world.
By the way did you see Corbyn deleted all his old blog posts from his website, there are (thankfully saved of course) pages and pages of them highly critical of the EU for reasons such as membership making it very difficult to nationalise industry or provide state aid
@mike we cannot sign bilateral trade agreements, all such have to be EU wide. Personally I think trade is a third order consideration, for me its about sovereignty and getting away from a organisation heading at an increasing rate towards the cliff edge.
mikewsmith - Member
So what is stopping us doing that at the moment?
Half of the Brexit posts go on about how easy it is to do trade with any country in the world, but now we need out of the EU to trade with the rest of the world.
You think too much as if business will perish over night ...
Brits are canny lot so you need not worry too much.
After 60 yrs of being in ZM system I think it's time to take charge and take control of own ZM destiny is it not?
Why become others' ZM when you can be your own ZM eh? 🙄
Freedoomm!
[the Leave argument is that our trade and business will be improved as we'll be able to better align with growing global markets like Asia as opposed to stagnating / about to explode Economies]
Business trading will improve and costs will come down because the Tories will abandon of all the EU employment laws - Working time directive (OK we have an opt out clause anyway), maternity / paternity leave & pay, statutory annual leave entitlement, are just a few that will probably go. H&S will stay, as even the Tories don't like people dying at work, manufacturing standards will remain as we have British Standards before EU intergration. And they will probably ignore EU envronment legislation as well. This is how we will become more competitive in the global economy.
chewkw - Member
mikewsmith - MemberYou think
I'll misquote that one...
In
mikewsmith - Member
chewkw - Member
mikewsmith - Member
You think
I'll misquote that one...
😆
dufresneorama - MemberIn
ZM-Land
Its Gowrie BTW@Growie
So you'd like to tie our future to the expansionist Chinese dictatorship, the at times shaky democracies of the far east and India's inward looking protectionism, would you? That's out of the frying pan and into the fire.the Leave argument is that our trade and business will be improved as we'll be able to better align with growing global markets like Asia as opposed to stagnating / about to explode Economies and new members desperate to join who comrpise poor or very challenged economies, eg Eastern Europe / Turkey.
Gowrie - Member
So you'd like to tie our future to the expansionist Chinese dictatorship, the at times shaky democracies of the far east and India's inward looking protectionism, would you? Its out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Are you for real? 😆
Are you for real?
I certainly don't subscribe to your world view - what little of it I can understand.
Gowrie - Member
Are you for real?
I certainly don't subscribe to your world view - what little of it I can understand.
You have plenty of catching up to do then.
In Ofcourse! Simply down to the premise of easier access to the Alps!
Chinese made bikes and bike parts coming into the UK
I can't decide whether your response to my post was a non sequitur or a straw man
If it is a straw man it's one we can import easily due to trade restrictions not being important but out ability to use it is impaired by the shackles of the eu.
You have plenty of catching up to do then
I'm not the one who's behind.
Our trading future is with India, China, South America and North America whose markets will dwarf the EU's. The emerging economies alone are home to 80% of the worlds population. The issue of trade with the EU will become more and more irrelevant over the coming decades. The only potential benefit being in the EU gives us is access to the EU market, but it is a reducing market as a proportion of our future exports.
The Inners like to offer up Norway and Switzerland as some form of unhappy alternative where they have signed up to much of the EU requirements without having a seat on the table, but I don't think Norway and Switzerland see it like that. I don't think they'd swap for all the tea in China. They're doing perfectly fine out of the EU in fact despite their 'poor deal', with some of the lowest unemployment rates and highest average earnings than any other country in the EU.
Is it a coincidence that those 2 countries are the most expensive in Europe to live in.
10 quid a pint in Norway !!!
[i] peatybike - Member
In Of course! Simply down to the premise of easier access to the Alps![/i]
[i] kimbers - Member
Is it a coincidence that those 2 countries are the most expensive in Europe to live in.10 quid a pint in Norway !!![/i]
Ah, yes. Folk basing their decision to remain on lifestyle, such as convenience of travel for a few weeks a year. Because that really is what counts and should be the only basis upon which to cast a vote!
😆
Voting, on anything, really is wasted on some folk.
😉
The EU idea is old and out dated, but a nice gravy train for those on the inside. All one needs to do is listen to/read about any topic under consideration by the EU parliament to see how slow and conflicted the EU is.
They're doing perfectly fine out of the EU in fact despite their 'poor deal', with some of the lowest unemployment rates and highest average earnings than any other country in the EU.
Norway has a tiny population and incredibly access to oil, the profits from the state owned oil companies have been well invested. Switzerland isn't that clever, it's got banking and other stuff but is reliant on labour coming in from outside for lots of things. Whichever way it is how does the UK compare to Norway and Switzerland, where are the similarities?
On terms of trading agreements with new partners are we stronger alone or with the massive buying and selling block that is the eu?
Our trading future is with India, China, South America and North America whose markets will dwarf the EU's. The emerging economies alone are home to 80% of the worlds population
Ok I can buy that, or at least buy that as one of a range of possible scenarios. Where's the big disadvantage of trading with those countries from within the EU?
I maybe wouldn't vote to join the EU now if we weren't in it, but it would be disruptive to leave and I can't see an upside to leaving.
Folk basing their decision to remain on lifestyle,
Well, yes, actually
Unless you are gullible enough to be sucked in by all that sovreignity bollox, or plain old xenophobia
[i]
and I [s]can't[/s] don't want to see an upside to leaving.[/i]
Is probably closer to the reason behind a lot of the remainistas comments here.
HTH.
Our trading future is with India, China, South America and North America whose markets will dwarf the EU's
Great. Why do you think the UK is a more fantastic trading partner than the EU from their perspective?
"Hello, Brazilian Trade Ministry, how can I help you?...United who?...Kingdom?...okay, let me take a look...are you the guys with the oil?...oh, that's the United Arab Emirates is it...okay...hold on, I've got a United Arab Republic, United States - well, we know you're not them, I'd know who you are!...ahh, okay, United Kingdom - oh, the small island, you should have said!...wait, you're not the same as little Scotland any more, are you? Ahh, I see...no, we just had their ambassador over here the other day...lovely lady but not much to say to her is there...now, how can I help you?"
I don't think Norway and Switzerland see it like that. I don't think they'd swap for all the tea in China. They're doing perfectly fine out of the EU in fact despite their 'poor deal', with some of the lowest unemployment rates and highest average earnings than any other country in the EU.
If you'd like to go back to the Palaeolithic age and insert a gigantic lake of oil in the UK's sector of the North Sea, it would be really easy for the UK to be as prosperous as the Norwegians!
Wasn't BJ raging about the gagging of the BCC chief on Sunday? .....
An email from his chief of staff, Edward Lister, seen by the BBC, tells deputy mayors and senior advisers to "either advocate the mayor's position or otherwise not openly contradict it".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35749084
😳
and I [s]can't[/s] don't want to see an upside to [s]leaving[/s] staying in.
The more I see of the arguments, the more convinced I am that there is clear polarization and absolutely no movement from one side to the other. I woukd consider uprooting and moving to the EU if there is a exit vote.
[i] kimbers - member
Well, yes, actuallyUnless you are gullible enough to be sucked in by all that sovreignity bollox, or plain old xenophobia[/i]
So folk who don't agree with your pov are gullable, daily mail reading, Xenophobes.
😆
And that is the remain strategy. To try to bully folk into their pov.
Stay Classy!
😆