[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

[b]I blame the EU for computers, bringing former USSR countries in from the cold, courts with a jurisdiction above national governments, and increased specialisation and cooperation of industries across the continent.[/b]

No, hang on, were they not all things that the UK sought, and 'till recently, kept seeking to achieve?
Not only haven't we finished, but we are blaming our neighbours for the ideas we gifted them!
We must look completely barmy to other Europeans with any knowledge of modern history.

🙂 I did actually spend 8 months in pentonville....................

Working!

@TJ I was proved wrong about Trump, I said he couldn't win the nomination. On the EU and Brexit I am pretty confident we have made the right decision and it will be a success.

@molgrips Yes there are risks however, I think the financial risks of Remain outweigh Leave. I used the Turkey voting for Christmas metaphor for Remain people only saw the next meal and not what lay down the road. I am aure the EU wanted it just that way like a Python crushing the life out of it's victim

You think their electorate are going to look at the nosediving pound, stunted growth and growing inflation and say "Wow! We want some of that!"

Their strong currency makes a holiday to the UK cheaper but selling goods to us more expensive
Our growth still exceeds theirs (our unemployment is half theirs)
Inflation perhaps but it's ticking up in parts if Europe too

As for wanting some of that let's see how the elections in Austria, Holland, France and Germany go

I'm back! What did I miss?

Have those morons who voted out realised what they have done yet?

I am aure the EU wanted it just that way like a Python crushing the life out of it's victim

no comment required

You seem unable to set out a clear backed up argument as to why the EU would actually damage our prospects compared to being out, Jam. Very keen to hear this set out, will someone please set it out for me?

I get what's wrong with the Euro, but not the EU.

And I'm not saying there are just risks to leaving. I am saying there are definitely massive problems, and I cannot see how they will be solved.

Have those morons who voted out realised what they have done yet?

Nope, they seem to have reached greater levels of surrealism though

[quote=tjagain ] I did actually spend 8 months in pentonville....................
Working!

Laundry or kitchen?

Scanning the papers today, it seems that even the Telegraph is turning against the harder end of Brexit. They actually had a piece explaining why most of the harder options won't work - bringing them into line with the Times, Independent and Gruniad.

I think that leaves the Mail and Express as the voice of (Brexit) reason. The Sun might still be warbling about it, but I think they're more interested in who might be nude.

Papers make an interesting barometer.

no comment required

Except your made one ? EU is a political project to create a European superstate, crushing the independence out of the constituents is a requirement

@molgrips the euro IS the EU. It's the centrepiece of the whole project and its been a disaster,
doomed from the start (and I was a believer initially). Then we add in everything else and it shows catastrophic incompetance. That's a huge Economic risk. No doubt in my mind it's held back our growth in the past 10-20 years.

those morons who voted out

Chapeau, very considered and inclusive

very considered

More considered than any of your flat earthier contributions.

jambalaya - Member
@TJ I was proved wrong about Trump, I said he couldn't win the nomination. On the EU and Brexit I am pretty confident we have made the right decision and it will be a success

First part of the statement you admit you were wrong about Trump winning nomination, why should we trust your judgement this time around?

Businesses are apprehensive about what's going to happens when we have the prime minister kissing up to manufacturers to remain in the UK, whilst cutting a deal for the city, where her husband works to remain part of Europe at what cost to the rest of the country. We were lied to by a bunch of self serving tossers out for their own gains.

The Remain Campaign where pretty clear about what Leave would mean. So what's all the fuss about ?

Can't think why we'd be confused Jamba:

[url= https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1961950/theresa-may-refuses-to-say-if-she-will-keep-britain-in-the-single-market-as-jeremy-corbyn-attacks-her-over-her-brexit-strategy-at-pmqs/ ]Theresa May refuses to say if she will keep Britain in the single market (Sun, 12th October 2016)[/url]

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-referendum-single-market-theresa-may-tory-conservatives-a7358471.html ]Senior Tories demand Theresa May ends Brexit uncertainty over single market (Independent, 12th October 2016[/url]

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-single-market-theresa-may-to-pay-billions-for-access-report-a7365226.html ]Brexit: Theresa May 'considering paying billions of pounds to access single market' (Independent, 17 October 2016)[/url]

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/17/cabinet-considers-plan-to-keep-citys-single-market-access-by-pay/ ]Cabinet considers plan to keep City's single market access by 'paying billions to EU' after Brexit (Telegraph, 17 October 2016)[/url]

The Remain Campaign where pretty clear about what Leave would mean.

They were [b]WARNING[/b] that voting to leave the EU is likely to result in us being taken out of the single market.

And it looks like they were right.

The warned us about a lot of other things that might happen.

I hope they were wrong,

@jimster it's clear to me whatever the Conservative Government does you'd say much the same no matter what the result on June 23rd would have been

@kelvin why not try and make a token effort to discuss the issue. Time will show how Brexit will work and allow us to judge it's success. So far the data is good and we can consign to the bin Project Fear of Cameron/Osbourne and we have an effective apology from the IMF that they where far too pessimistic

No we are not going to be in "THE Single Market" as the EU says that requires freedom of movement and a budget contribution. What was said is we would try and negotiate "A free trade deal". It's a different thing. Of course a hard exit and return to WTO tariffs is an option. Personally I think it's a good option. It works for Australia, USA, China, South Korea etc

jambalaya - Member

So far the data is good and we can consign to the bin Project Fear of Cameron/Osbourne and we have an effective apology from the IMF that they where far too pessimistic

a) how the **** is the data good?

b) we haven't left yet

So no single market and we'll try and negotiate a deal with a trade block that now has a vested interest in seeing us suffer - fingers crossed someone takes pity and does us a favour in return for cake and biscuits. Slow handclap, Brexit - slow handclap.

No we are not going to be in "THE Single Market" as the EU says that requires freedom of movement and a budget contribution.

Yet we are apparently still going to pay them billions and [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37705852 ]allow freedom of movement for skilled workers[/url] and [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/08/european-bankers-will-be-exempt-from-migration-curbs-after-brexi/ ]bankers[/url]?

zokes - Still not a customer

rosscore - Member

kelvin - Member
So, without the EU expanding past the Berlin Wall, Europe would be safer from an ever threatening Russia?
You really think that?

I already said it a while back, they should have stopped at Poland/and the Czech/Slovak republics, the destabilisation of Ukraine by in essence the Corporate US is what has woken Russia from her slumbers, that and the 'theft' of their former satellite states of the USSR, Bulgaria, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia etc.
Yes I most definitely believe that.

Well, it seems Jamba and chewkw have some catching up to do if they want to beat this lunacy

[b]I agree with rosscore 100%.[/b]

This concept of EU must be curbed at all cost. Very troublesome bunch of bureaucrats who like to intervene in others internal affairs. i.e. they like to stick their noses into other nations affairs like the Obama administration.

It works for Australia, USA, China, South Korea etc

jambalaya - Member
So far the data is good and we can consign to the bin Project Fear of Cameron/Osbourne

are you actually on a different planet?

the £ is through the floor, Nissan stopping investment in sunderland and UK scientists being shut out of EU funding grants are the only things we can attribute to the vote so far.

Some parts of the economy are strong - jobs are staying good, and thats while we are still in the EU, so how come immigrants aren stealing all our jobs and all these the EU laws are stiffiling us???

@kimbers...I often wonder if @jambayla is actually a robot poster or spoof persona (being serious here). Since @jambaylas's posts dont seem to follow the normal principles of dialogue, reasoning, logic, evidence based opinion or empathy.

@molgrips the euro IS the EU

What the hell are you talking about? That makes absoultely no sense.

Mol a little but fairer to consider the wider statement as it explains why Jambas remains confused

@molgrips the euro IS the EU. It's the centrepiece of the whole project and its been a disaster,
doomed from the start (and I was a believer initially).

This is actually not too bad but it's a typical BSer tactic. Why because it's not central to the debate - which should be what is the best structure to maximise our benefits and minimise our risks - we are not part of the Euro. We are not part of Schenged etc. WE HAD THE PEFECT DEAL. Now we don't know what we have but we are still exposed to

Then we add in everything else and it shows catastrophic incompetance. That's a huge Economic risk. No doubt in my mind it's held back our growth in the past 10-20 years.

Which is why the BSers case is so illogical and badly though through. The technical term is BOLLOCKS

First part of the statement you admit you were wrong

A momentous post, and the only worthwhile thing to come out of this thread <bookmarked>

Why because it's not central to the debate - which should be what is the best structure to maximise our benefits and minimise our risks - we are not part of the Euro. We are not part of Schenged etc. WE HAD THE PEFECT DEAL. Now we don't know what we have but we are still exposed to

So because we are alright we should stand by and let an unaccountable juggernaut spread corporate fascism throughout Europe? Technocrats vetoing the democratic will of voters?

So because we are alright we should stand by and let an unaccountable juggernaut spread corporate fascism

[img] [/img]

So because we are alright we should stand by and let an unaccountable juggernaut spread corporate fascism throughout Europe?

No - we should put ourselves in a position where we have no influence so they can get on with that without us

So because we are alright we should stand by and let an unaccountable juggernaut spread corporate fascism throughout Europe?

What does this mean? Can you explain please?

So because we are alright we should stand by and let an unaccountable juggernaut spread corporate fascism throughout Europe? Technocrats vetoing the democratic will of voters?

I would love to join you Ross but its a bit too early

What does this mean? Can you explain please?

It's the one that says "ROAR. No computers or Russians" above the door.

So jamba - are you going to admit your statement that only Germany and the UK pay into the EU was complete nonsense?

Pot

It means, that part of the reason I voted out was in the hope that by doing so, the nightmare that is the EU will be brought to an end. That Nightmare includes what it is doing to the peoples of Southern Europe, and Greece in particular, the fact that it offers Corporate America a nice big market to expand it's influence within, so the likes of Soros can spread his cancerous revenge into the Ukraine with the tacit backing of that military industrial combine, I know cue pictures of tinfoil hats, but whatever, they gave me a chance to rebel and I did.

My hope is that other countries will now act similarly and the whole edifice will come crashing down and in it's place we might end up with what we voted to join in the first place, a group of sovereign independent nations trading peacefully together with no ulterior motive other than peace and prosperity.

Unless you have been living in a cave for the past 2 months, you are going to be very disappointed to hear that May and Co are taking the UK in the opposite direction of the utopia described above.

they game me a chance to rebel and I did

You must be very proud.

they game me a chance to rebel and I did

At what cost though? For all of us, not just you?

The EU has a lot of positives. You just don't want to see them.

[quote=rosscore ] they gave me a chance to rebel and I did.

[img] [/img]

molgrips - Member
they game me a chance to rebel and I did
At what cost though? For all of us, not just you?

The EU has a lot of positives. You just don't want to see them.

I never voted for the Federal Republic of Europe and I don't want to be part of it

As pointed out before the "United States of Europe" was very much part of [url= http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html ]Churchill's original vision[/url] in 1946.

I never voted for the Federal Republic of Europe and I don't want to be part of it,

Nor did I, we weren't

Manufacturing recovery?

Of what? To sell where?

we'll have a manufacturing led recovery, just as we did in the early nineties

In the 90s, before the rise of BRICS and when we were part of a massive free trade area where we could sell our manufactured goods?