Are out voters really planning on kicking out all the EU workers from the UK? Who's going to do all the work? Are they expecting unemployment to suddenly drop and everyone to suddenly take up the slack?
You guys need to fet your head round the fact that Spain, Italy, Framce, Portugal etc LOVE Brits coming over buying property, spending money etc. A Brexit is going to make zero differemce to that. The past thing they want is less Brits.
You need to stop telling this lie - if the French were so keen on foreigners why did they try to put up taxes on non-residents and have to be stopped by the EU ??
#jambafact
Fiscal deficit? Tax non-voters?
(just a thought)
DrJ because their 75% tax on residents was ruled illegal by French courts and the 66% tax on companies so ineffective it was abandoned after 2 years. The desperate government tried to come up with something else to try and reverse its huge unpopularity. The various commenta about Brits POSSIBLY not being able to love in Spain, France etc is total garbage and shows the Remain campaigners to be truely clutching at straws.
I thought prior to the Referendum Leave coildn't win due to the momentum effects of "do nothing" but from what I see so far we now have a very good chance of victory.
French ruies allow anyone of any natioanility to get state health care (ie a Carte Vitale) if you are a property owner and pay property taxes.
Even if this is true (and the website is so awful I can't see the eligibility rules), it still doesn't help people who need to be able to live and work legally in property that they would buy.
It's a weird position to assume that free movement would be retained for UK citizens even if the UK leaves the EU - when it's one of the big reasons for the UK leaving!
Are out voters really planning on kicking out all the EU workers from the UK? Who's going to do all the work? Are they expecting unemployment to suddenly drop and everyone to suddenly take up the slack?
It does seem absolutely bonkers, the NHS would be absolutely stuffed and certainly my industry; medical research would suffer hugely, as would many other industries, London would have to shut up shop overnight?
@kona - no if you want to work in France you will, most likely, have to apply for a visa just as a French person will have to apply for one in the UK. I imagine valuable staff in the nhs will get a visa, someone working as a porter or a cleaner maybe not. None of this is rocket science, all very simple with many countries policies we can analyse amd copy/adapt
The fact that Michael Howard supports leaving the EU is good enough for me.
ny countries policies we can analyse amd copy/adapt
It's no though is it, currently jumping through hoops trying to sort out a visa for a US citezen to work in our lab, she's months of delay and red tape
Considering the dire shortage of nurses at the moment and the UKs current nurse recruitment drive across Europe, suddenly magicking up visas for the thousands of EU nationals employed in the NHS is fantasy
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/26/nhs-foreign-nationals-immigration-health-service
The outies seem to want to increase redtape and beuraracy , it really is bonkers
jambalaya - MemberYou guys need to get your head round the fact that Spain, Italy, France, Portugal etc LOVE Brits coming over buying property, spending money etc
My mate found it such a pain in the 'Arris to buy a property in Spain that he decided to take residence in Thailand instead.
Go Euro! 😀
The various commenta about Brits POSSIBLY not being able to love in Spain, France etc is total garbage and shows the Remain campaigners to be truely clutching at straws.
Really, really boring. The FACT is that the French tried to tax non-residents and the status of non-EU residents is still not clear. If you want to make a case for Brexit there are many other grounds to do so, and some I'll agree with, but telling lies is just pathetic
Daily Mash sums it up.
Nipper99 - Member
Daily Mash sums it up.
You mean there is political party with nice good saintly people? Where?
Naive is one thing but claiming one party is full of horrible people is a new bias low ...
Leaking ZM brain juice ... 🙄
@kona - no if you want to work in France you will, most likely, have to apply for a visa just as a French person will have to apply for one in the UK. I imagine valuable staff in the nhs will get a visa, someone working as a porter or a cleaner maybe not. None of this is rocket science, all very simple with many countries policies we can analyse amd copy/ada
Right - and also if a UK citizen wanted to live in France, they'd also need a visa, yes?
most likely, have to apply for a visa
I imagine valuable staff in the nhs will get a visa,
There we go ladies and gents, cold hard facts there...
The various commenta about Brits POSSIBLY not being able to love in Spain, France etc is total garbage
Thank god for that! No point in booking a holiday to Benidorm if you aren't allowed to do any kidney jet washing while you're there. Bloody EU.
Right - and also if a UK citizen wanted to live in France, they'd also need a visa, yes?
Right. But no problem if they are a brain surgeon, so there's no impact of Brexit.
Persons with lesser qualifications don't count, of course.
There we go ladies and gents, cold hard facts there...
@mike, there is no certainty as to what the future will be if we stay in the EU. @DrJ I have made the point many times about the economic benefits to the host country of Brits living abroad full or part time
BBC has a piece on Brits living in Spain. A few things that jump out at me
They don't have any real data, 300,000 or 700,000 its just a guess ?
Only 11,000 registered to vote - my guess as to why- they don't care to vote, they are hiding from the taxman here and there, they are registered as living in the UK as that way they get indexed linked state pension
Foreign Office trying to get people to register to vote (see above reasons as to why they'd be keen to do so)
Varying views (as you'd expect) from worries about free health care to feeling the EU is removing the unique identity of each country
As such a tiny majority (1.6% - 3.7%) are registered to vote it would say to me they don't seem that worried about the outcome or they feel other advantages outweigh any downsides
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35688387 ]BBC Story[/url]
@mike, there is no certainty as to what the future will be if we stay in the EU
Well the treaties will take a lot of changing... It's a hell of a lot more certain than leaving though isn't it. For me there is more good than bad, as the sayings go baby and bathwater, biting off your nose to spite your face etc. A lot of people seem to hate the eu but like all the nice convenient things it brings so want to keep them.... How lovely to live in that world.
Only 11,000 registered to vote - my guess as to why...they are registered as living in the UK as that way they get indexed linked state pension
All uk pensioners living in EEA countries get index linked pension payments: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pensions-annual-increases-if-you-live-abroad/countries-where-we-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension
colp - Memberkidney jet washing
wat
[quote=konabunny spake unto the masses, saying]"Only 11,000 registered to vote - my guess as to why...they are registered as living in the UK as that way they get indexed linked state pension"
All uk pensioners living in EEA countries get index linked pension payments: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pensions-annual-increases-if-you-live-abroad/countries-where-we-pay-an-annual-increase-in-the-state-pension
br />
You and your facts again. No fun 🙁
and next to the party we have BMW & Rolls Royce
The BMW letter to Rolls-Royce workers
Dear colleagues,
As the debate around the referendum to decide the future of the UK's European Union membership increases, it is an appropriate time to outline the Rolls-Royce Motor Cars and BMW Group position.
The decision on whether to stay in the EU or not is for British voters to decide on in June. However, as a wholly-owned BMW Group company, it is important for all Rolls-Royce Motor Cars employees to understand the view of our parent company. The BMW Group believes that the UK is better as a member of the EU than it would be outside it. You will see in the media this week an open letter supporting the campaign to stay in the EU, signed by around 200 business leaders, including Member of the AG Board, Ian Robertson.
Free trade is important for international business. Rolls-Royce Motor Cars exports motor cars throughout the EU and imports a significant number of parts through the region. For BMW Group, more than half of MINIs built and virtually all the engines and components made in the UK are exported to the EU, with over 150,000 new cars and many hundreds of thousands of parts imported from Europe each year. Tariff barriers would mean higher costs and higher prices and we cannot assume that the UK would be granted free trade with Europe from outside the EU.
When it comes to regulation, whether the UK remains inside the EU or leaves it, with Europe as the UK's largest export market by far, we would have to abide by European rules and regulations in any case. We believe it's much better to be sat at the table when regulations are set and have a hand in their creation, rather than simply having to accept them.
Finally, we get a significant benefit from the easy movement of our people between the UK and Europe. This allows the rapid transfer of expert knowledge throughout the Rolls-Royce Motor Cars and BMW Group networks, building the skill level of our UK workforce. Our employment base could also be affected, with skilled men and women from most EU countries included in the 30 nationalities currently represented at the Home of Rolls-Royce here at Goodwood.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35712537
Sounds fairly straight forward from their perspective.
Rose (cahirman of a Remain campaign) scores an epic own goal at Westminster today. Quizzed by a Labour MP that surely wages of low paid would be likely to rise if freedom of movement ends, he replies "yes, but thats not necessarily a good thing" 😯
@mike yup the German motor manufacturers are very worried about a Brexit as we buy lots of expesive German cars, if there is a trade war/dispute they will be massive losers if import duties are imposed. I don't have the numbers to hand but for Rolls Royce Europe isn't so important, China amd Middle East are much more so. Merkel is very keen we stay in the EU, she didn't even attemd the famous summit as she agreed everything upfront, Germany has a huge trade surplus with the UK and its driven by high margin high value goods like cars
I see the French finance minister wants to roll out the red carpet to London bankers in the event of a Brexit. With his 60%+ tax I cant see many takers that's why so many French working for French banks chose to do so in London. Also more nonsense from him on Calais (send them all to UK) even his own colleague the Foreign minister has said that won't happen. Doh !
[i]Also more nonsense from him on Calais (send them all to UK) even his own colleague the Foreign minister has said that won't happen.[/i]
But as I said previously, this could easily be kicked into touch by the OUT campaign by answering that the 'carriers' are responsible for passengers been compliant. Just like airlines are.
So why don't they? Seems odd.
the original vote was into a 'common market' with no trading borders, not the behemoth that we have now with its additional political aspirations.
Why can we just not extrat the trade agreement portions and reinstate them after a brexit - should be pretty easy - some tippex, a typewriter and a photocopier are pretty much all the tools needed.
. I don't have the numbers to hand but
😆
Germany has a huge trade surplus with the UK and its driven by high margin high value goods like cars
Manufacturers' margin on cars is not high. It's 7-9.7% for the big German marques: http://www.statista.com/statistics/280346/ebit-margin-of-the-leading-car-manufacturers/
French TV reporting that Cameron has agreed to pay France an additional €20m towards policing / supporting migrants in Calais. I wonder how much coverage we get of that in the UK this evening ?
@kona the profit margins on (successful) auto manufacturer plus all the supply chain is massive given the volumes and sticker prices. Supermarkets woukd kill for margins anywhere near those.
Toiche @kimbers but as part of my job I follow VAG and BMW so my comments about relative importance of Asia vs Europe for Rolls Royce where based on what I've read/heard from the companies previously. As I said I didn't put numbers in the post as I don't have them right now.
@kona the profit margins on (successful) auto manufacturer plus all the supply chain is massive given the volumes and sticker prices. Supermarkets woukd kill for margins anywhere near those.
No, they're not. They're 7-9.7%, as above. I realise those facts didn't penetrate the cognitive dissonance forcefield that surrounds you.
Supermarkets famously have very very low profit margins (which is why you chose that example) but they make up for it with huge volume.
konabunny - Member
...[b]cognitive dissonance[/b] ... .
Ohh someone is using big words now ...
1. Are we all going to die or become beggars if we are out of EU-SSR?
2. Do you think there will be a total economy collapse?
3. Are you affected by the dissonance?
😆
Listening to the radio this morning to hear the news about that French minister warning of the possible end to the UK border controls in France.
Made me chuckle. This kind of behaviour from our EU "[i]brothers and sisters[/i]" demonstrates exactly why the UK is thinking of leaving.
In my view, in order to escape being continually dictated to by France and Germany.
What do Hollande and Merkel know or care, about life in the UK?
Zip!
In my view, in order to escape being continually [u]dictated[/u] to by France and Germany
I think someone's been suckered in far too easily by farige and the daily mail
[i]kimbers - Member
I think someone's been suckered in far too easily by farige and the daily mail[/i]
It think that's ^^ a crude and ultimately fruitless attempt to start an argument. Barely worth a reply 😉
I don't listen to the person you refer to and I don't read that paper.
Indeed, if you had read my initial post you'd have noticed, I've been listening to the news on the radio, Radio 4's the Today program, to be specific.
Reading the thread: FAIL
Starting an argument: 0/10
😀
And yet you bit......
Id say thats the argument about this being argument won 🙂
Solo - MemberListening to the radio this morning to hear the news about that French minister warning of the possible end to the UK border controls in France.
Made me chuckle. This kind of behaviour from our EU "brothers and sisters" demonstrates exactly why the UK is thinking of leaving. In my view, in order to escape being continually dictated to by France and Germany.
Lol. This is a bilateral agreement- it's absurd to suggest that ending such a treaty, within the terms agreed by both parties at the outset, is "dictating" anything. Good effort to take a current example of a mutually satisfactory agreement with a EU partner and try to turn it into a negative though.
mikewsmith - Memberand next to the party we have BMW & Rolls Royce
Who manage to manufacture and sell cars for profit outside of the EU.
How is this even possible? ❓
How is this even possible?
Do you need a picture? At no point has anybody said that trade with the EU will stop or would be impossible. What is the simple point that people seem to keep evading is that it won't be as easy, as profitable or as competitive unless we have free trade agreements such as those that Norway have - which they pay for. For a company like BMW/RR who work across the EU not having a free movement of people between sites would be a disadvantage to manufacturing in the UK.
(Clears throat and puts on best Duncan Bannatyne voice) I'll let you know where I am, . . . I'm oot!
Do you need a picture?
That's exactly the picture that is being painted. Maybe you need to re-read this thread.
At no point has anybody said that trade with the EU will stop or would be impossible
So you're agreed that trade will continue post Brexit.
Superb.
What exactly are you afraid of?
Tariffs, restricted movement of people, quota arrangements, no say on eu rules of trade of standards, and all the rest for our current massive trading partner which delivers the UK a great marketplace and provides massive opportunity at a very low cost.
Basically not really buying into the part where the UK can pick all the best bits about EU membership, cut all the bits you don't like, pay nothing and strong arm them into agreeing.
So you're agreed that trade will continue post Brexit.
Superb.
What exactly are you afraid of?
What is the simple point that people seem to keep evading is that it won't be as easy, as profitable or as competitive unless we have free trade agreements such as those that Norway have - which they pay for.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35732291 ]oops someones been talking out of school naughty naughty[/url]
I think someone's been suckered in far too easily by farige and the daily mail
Junker was forced on us against our wishes. At least "we" got our own back by someone leaking all the PWC documents showing how many sweet tax deals he'd signed off. Formal invetigation followed and Luxmbourg guilty of illegal state aid.
Norway doesn't have our clout with respect to trade, also their deal was signed by politicans desperate to "join the EU" after the population had voted No.
@Klunk indeed, head of business group speaks out for Leave "on a personal basis" when his organisation opted to remain neutral