. The EU will remain wide open to UK purchasers.
How many frigging times are you going to repeat this lie? It's already not wide open to non-EU buyers.
Politics is a side show and life does go on.
Only it's not. The posh boys have their games and then it affects real people's lives.
boriselbrus - Member
I wouldn't worry too much Julian, even if it is a "Leave" vote, it'll take years - possibly a decade before the exit actually completes. Meantime, you'll still be free to live and work in the EU as at present.
Yeah, I'm hoping that that will be the case, but concerned that our rights to live and work anywhere might be removed from the beginning...
Sorry also for your loss, thm - there's a whole other conversation about why people should have to travel abroad for that reason (about which I feel equally strongly) - but my original point stands that without the [b]automatic right[/b] to live and work wherever I choose life is substantially diminished for me.
This is quite apart from losing the protection from the excesses of our own government that the EU tries to give us and the rest of it.
yeah, I'm hoping that that will be the case, but concerned that our rights to live and work anywhere might be removed from the beginning...
No one knows of course, but I suspect that would be one of the last things to go. Imagine the chaos if on June 24th all the eastern Europeans were told they could no longer live and work here...
No one knows of course, but I suspect that would be one of the last things to go.
Lol vote to stay and you will know what you get. Vote to leave and throw yourself on the mercy of both the eu on exit and the kippers
but I suspect that would be one of the last things to go.
Its will be one of the most important things to the out voters who just won. Whilst it wont be done that day - and reciprocity will also be a factor - what happens to UK folk in the EU- it will be done quite quickly as it is one of the big issues
We dont know what will happen though but my guess is it will be one of the top priorities to achieve.
The rules for new buyers will be different from Day One
I don't disagree with you that EU countries could treat UK persons like any oTher punter from outside the EU after Brexit when it comes to property purchases. But do any of them have restrictions on non EU people now? And would France really impose those rules on UK people when whole villages are kept afloat by Brit immigrants and second homers?
I suspect they will do as we do - the rich , wealthy and affluent can stay and the poor and the impoverished can leave.
IMHO the most likely is to change rules but to respect the rights of these currently there - that may require the UK to do the same with the ones here though and that seems unlikely- possibly with a timescale for it to end 10 years. In which time a person could presumably become a citizen of the country in which they reside.
With much of this its very hard to know how much they will cooperate and how much they will flounce
JY try and stick to the issues, nit evrythnig is about me. I imagine the poster read the same news report I did on that topic
There are currently no restrictiions on nationality (EU or otherwise) of buyers of property in the following;
UK
France
Italy
Spain
Portugal
the list goes on
In Switzerland where there are restrictions on foreign purchasers they apply equally to EU and non-EU citizens
As I posted before Brits buy property in US, Singapore and Thailand without the right to live there permanently
Leaving the EU will make zero difference to people wishing to buy a property abroad unkess they are planning on moving to Denmark for example. What will change is the automatic right to work. There may be an impact on access to healthcare but in France if you pay property taxes you have access to their health service.
Second home owning Brits are very important to many European countries, they will not jeopardise these revenues.
. But do any of them have restrictions on non EU people now
Yes, as previously noted. Denmark to my personal knowledge. Also France wanted to increase taxes on foreign owners but was not allowed to do so on EU owners.
So, of course nobody knows the future but the current AUTOMATIC rights will disappear. Want to gamble your retirement plans on everything working out fine?
G20. I see the G20 has piped up to point out an EU exit by the UK would be potentially negative for the EU and thus global ecomony. This is no surprise at all, the EU without us is much weaker, we would be a stabilising influence as well as having deep pockets when it comes to the impending Greek default. Plus of course our departure will raise wuestions about whether the EU can survive, voters in other countries will call for Referendums. Countroes in Eastern Europe, Bosnia and Turkey want to join an EU including the UK. So those interested in the status-quo will push for us to remain.
EDIT: evidence and source for the G20 claim- i know they will say it will be bad but i want proof that the reasons you give are the reasons they have given.
Yes when we leave it all falls apart and the others stop wanting to join so the EU needs us 😆 - again its hilarious gems like that that keep me reading.
JY try and stick to the issues, nit evrythnig is about me.
TBH i dont even know which post you are even referring to
Leaving the EU will make zero difference to people wishing to buy a property abroad
#jambfact and source please
#jambfact and source pleaseSecond home owning Brits are very important to many European countries, they will not jeopardise these revenues.
You state your opinion as if it is a fact and add no caveats.
FWIW I have little interest in "making it about you" what I[ and plenty of others] object to is the way you refuse to make it about facts.
You ask me for a source when you don't even recall what you posted on the prior page ? Why don't you just treat everything on here as opinion, you'll save yourself a lot of stress and bother. Why would anyone have to tag their posts with IMO or such just because you can't get your head round it.
Off to the pub for England Ireland, see you all tomorrow.
Well I posted quite a bit so it might be helpful if you say to which post it is that you are referring. I have not forgotten what I said it was just that your point was somewhat vague- clearly this is my fault and not yours.
Can I have a source for that claim please 😆 its not even what I said i said you state your opinion - which sorts of suggests i got it that it was an opinion- as if it was a fact.Why would anyone have to tag their posts with IMO or such just because you can't get your head round it.
Leaving the EU will make zero difference to people wishing to buy a property abroad unkess they are planning on moving to Denmark for example. What will change is the automatic right to work. There may be an impact on access to healthcare but in France if you pay property taxes you have access to their health service.
You are gliding over the right to live in a place. It's all very way to own a place without a right to live in it - you might even be happy being an illegal immigrant and living in the place on a series of visitor visas (as you keep suggesting). But for many people, it's pointless owning a house in a place if you can't live there, can't access non-emergency healthcare, can't get benefits, can't send your kids to school etc...and yes can't work there.
Without being too ad hom, you've got a lot more flexibility in moving around the place after Brexit than most UK citizens will, so you have a rather breezy attitude.
Apologies to anyone and everyone I upset and swore at last night. The ban hammer should probably have been wielded but it appears that it wasn't, for which I am grateful and lucky.
This remains a big issue (something which I might be selling if it all goes pear shaped) for me and it sometimes makes me go a little (a lot) over the top...
This remains a big issue for everyone. People from the UK who live all throughout Europe or who planned to at some point, to people who have come from Europe and been living in the UK making a life for themselves.
As has been said previously most young people will never have known anything other than being part of the EU and may have planned careers or retirement accordingly.
Hopefully the vote comes in as IN and nothing will change but if it doesn't the mess is going to be epic..
No worries Julian 😀
Cheers muddydwarf!
Its will be one of the most important things to the out voters who just won. Whilst it wont be done that day - and reciprocity will also be a factor - what happens to UK folk in the EU- it will be done quite quickly as it is one of the big issues
We dont know what will happen though but my guess is it will be one of the top priorities to achieve.
I'm not so sure. There are 40 years worth of treaties to pick through, new ones to put in place - potentially with each member state - to be done with a government which is about to go into summer recess and the majority of MP's (including the PM) don't want to change anyway.
I know the situation is different, but Czechoslovakia split 23 years ago and the Czech Republic and Slovakia are still arguing over some issues.
As usual, the answer is "no-one knows" but my bet is several years before everything is settled. The only immediate thing which is certain on a "leave" vote is a stock market crash.
Hopefully the vote comes in as IN and nothing will change but if it doesn't the mess is going to be epic..
^^^Agreed
Leaving the EU will make zero difference to people wishing to buy a property abroad unkess they are planning on moving to Denmark for example. What will change is the automatic right to work. There may be an impact on access to healthcare but in France if you pay property taxes you have access to their health service.Second home owning Brits are very important to many European countries, they will not jeopardise these revenues.
It's the certainty that I like here, it's 100% not going to change, except for being able to work, have healthcare, perhaps taxation, might chuck in some fun getting your money out of the country too. But you can still buy a house there...
As much as the revenue may be important there is nothing to say that the implications will be universal across Europe, many countries may just ignore the UK for the handful of people, some area's may tout for business and EU retreats for Brits some may see them as a soft target and tax the hell out of them.
As usual, the answer is "no-one knows" but my bet is several years before everything is settled. The only immediate thing which is certain on a "leave" vote is a stock market crash.
And this is the biggest issue (especially for those retiring to the EU)
G20. I see the G20 has piped up to point out an EU exit by the UK would be potentially negative for the EU and thus global ecomony. This is no surprise at all, the EU without us is much weaker,
Both will be weaker without each other. It's a no win situation.
Out. The G20 consists of 20 major economies (19 countries and the EU) 85% of gross world product and 80% of world trade. If you exclude trade within the EU the G20 nations conduct 75% of world trade, plenty to be going on with.
There are 4 EU nations in the G20: UK, France, Germany and Italy. There are 28 EU nations many of which should never have passed the fiscal test to become EU members and will forever be a drag on our economy and that of the EU in general.
Do you think that the French, the Germans and the Italians will refuse to trade when they want us to buy their cars, kitchen appliances, wine, etc? Out
Do you think that the French, the Germans and the Italians will refuse to trade when they want us to buy their cars, kitchen appliances, wine, etc? Out
Nobody has ever said there wouldn't be trade with the EU, just not free trade, and no seat at the table to influence trade rules.
Nobody has ever said there wouldn't be trade with the EU, just not free trade,
Is our costly membership of the EU more costly than the loss of free-trade with the EU, or will our manufacturers and markets develop under the World Trade Organisation (whose efforts, such as the Doha, aimed at further improvement have admittedly stalled) with the rest of the G20 and the rest of the world?
Away from free trade, our farmers get half of the amount of subsidy that the UK actually chucks into the EU subsidy trough. We could improve our farmers lot at a stroke
But there are very few farmers, and you'd be making it harder for them to actually sell anything.
[i]Is our costly membership of the EU more costly than the loss of free-trade with the EU[/i]
If you look back a few pages you will see how much the likes of Norway and Switzerland pay to trade (and NOT influence).
But there are very few farmers, and you'd be making it harder for them to actually sell anything.
And getting fewer under EU membership. We would also be free to subsidise farmers for land that protects against flooding, which will be fresh in the minds of many (EU subsidies may not get paid for permanent ponds and some woodland). We would also be free to dredge away from the European Water Framework Directive
If you look back a few pages you will see how much the likes of Norway and Switzerland pay to trade (and NOT influence).
We're currently the world's largest importer of goods from EU countries. Larger than the US. Would that not count for something?
And let's not forget our £8.5bn overpayment to the EU (£13.5bn without our rebate)
£13bn to the EU (£18bn without our rebate) and £4.5bn back
Out (and ah'm oot)
We're currently the world's largest importer of goods from EU countries. Larger than the US. Would that not count for something?
I'm sure it probably would, but how can you be sure it would work the other way? I can't imagine the French agreeing to import our farmed produce free from tariffs can you? or tariffs imposed by our own governments might make these good expensive for us to buy.
I can't imagine the French agreeing to import our farmed produce free from tariffs can you?
I did say that I was out, but...tit-for-tat, we surely wouldn't import their goods without tariffs in that event, and as the world's largest importer of EU goods that surely hurts them more??
Now ah'm oot
"Fog in English Channel, Continent cut off"
In basic terms (apologies for the link that follows) - I'm in the "its great in principal but not so great in practice" camp. In an ideal world, i'm swayed to the 'in' camp, mainly for the longer term view of union should be the better option.
That said, I've been trying to read up on the options and come back to Swiss / Iceland / Norway model a lot. Yes very different countries, but the principals are there.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11730318/Dear-Britain-there-is-life-outside-the-EU.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11730318/Dear-Britain-there-is-life-outside-the-EU.html[/url]
Can someone explain why this is not a good solution (i.e. free trade within the EU but access to global markets).
Would this be impossible to broker?
For me the whole thing is a big sham. The 'in' vote will win by a decisive majority, but only because of the scaremongering that is being done by business / David Cameron and other influential figures.
The EU is a failed experiment and it will always be unless all member states become much more tightly integrated. My view is that sooner or later it will come crashing down.
I still struggle to understand why they couldn't just leave the whole thing at the common trade agreement and just accept that each European country had very different economies / societies.
After nearly 60 years it's time to move on.
It is already broken after 60 years of evolution coz it ain't evolving any further but getting worst.
I mean even Chinese Dynasty (large institution) does not last longer than that (most of them anyway).
Time to set up EU-SSR version II that excludes the ZM bureaucrats to challenge the EU-SSR version I.
The current system is rotting and the graving train should be stopped. 🙄
Simple.
Mervyn King, ex Govenor of the Bank of England. Free now to speak his mind unlike Carney, a Canadian who wants an easier life.
[i]Germany and the rest of the eurozone must “face up” to the fact that uncompetitive countries in the south can only prosper again if the bloc is broken up, Lord King argues.
Europe’s biggest economy faces the “terrible choice” of writing a blank cheque to support the bloc “at great and unending cost to its taxpayers” or calling “a halt to the monetary union project”, he says.[/i]
For the ex-Gov of the BoE to mis-represent basic economics is remarkable. Was the shock of failing to regulate banks well enough too much?
He choses to focus on one option - break up (which may be valid) - but ignores/choses to deride the other perfectly valid option of fiscal transfers. That is how unions work and why you need monetary AND fiscal union as the easy-life members (sic) are only too happy to point out.
Still Merv has a book to promote....
Mervyn King, ex Govenor of the Bank of England. Free now to speak his mind unlike Carney, a Canadian who wants an easier life.
Possibly King is right that the Eurozone bloc needs shaken up. What is the relevance/implication for the UK which will never be in the euro?
neilforrow: in what ways do Switzerland, Norway and Iceland have superior access to world markets? The latter two are small countries sitting on massive natural resources (oil and fish). That article is full of non-sequiturs and correlation/causation mistakes. Why would export products that fail to comply with EU standards be more attractive to non-eu markets? And why would UK products that are being exported to non-EU markets have to comply with EU standards anyway?
Ask 4 Economists a question and get 5 different answers. He's a professor at LSE is he not ? The euro and by extension the EU is a ticking time bomb. The more distance we can put between ourselves and it the better.
@kona we have far better, deeper and longer established trading ties with the Rest-of-the-World than do Switzerland and Norway. Iceland is bust.
But we should, indeed must, draw a distinction between the € and the EU. this is the crux of the issue - of course, its chicken and egg because the core states of Europe need to define exactly what it is that they want - the intention is closer political union. ok lets be clear about this, define which states should be part of any/which currency union, move to complete monetary and fiscal union for those states and the determine how this groups will interact with those EU members who remain outside the currency union or who are part of an alternative one.
Distinction between EU and €, we have to contribute to the stability fund (can't recall exact name) even though we are not in the €, remember Osbourne scurrying over to "ensure" we got an exemption. In the case of a Greek default we'll be roped in, no doubt in my mind. Also € is probably the flagship part of the EU and its a total dogs breakfast.
Just confirmed with BIL who is French estate agent that there are no nationality restrictions on buying property in France, so unless on a Brexit they introduce a rule just for us we'll be free to buy and sell as we see fit juat like now. Many EU coutries benefit from Brit spending, too important to jepoardise
In other news I saw Cameron say he's only interested in "project fact", sounds good to me 😉
unless on a Brexit they introduce a rule just for us we'll be free to buy and sell as we see fit juat like now.
Yes - but not the right to live there, get benefits there, get non-emergency healthcare there etc. Being able to buy and sell French property at will is great for international property investors or people that just want a holiday home - it's not so important for people that actually want to [i]live [/i]in those houses.
(I agree that it's unlikely significant restrictions on real property purchase would be introduced post-Brexit )
"The European Court of Justice ruled on February 26, 2015 that France should not apply social contributions on income perceived by non-residents."
but ...
"It is not yet clear if the ruling applies only to residents of another EU country and Switzerland who are affiliated to the social security system of their country of resident, or if it will apply to all non-residents, regardless of the country of residence."
So to claim that the situation is clear-cut for property purchase in France post-Brexit is simply not true, no matter how many times jamba repeats it.
Ya, please feed the Finns ... 😯
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35656150 ]Findland next problem?[/url]
Should they feed more refugee?
French ruies allow anyone of any natioanility to get state health care (ie a Carte Vitale) if you are a property owner and pay property taxes.
You guys need to fet your head round the fact that Spain, Italy, Framce, Portugal etc LOVE Brits coming over buying property, spending money etc. A Brexit is going to make zero differemce to that. The past thing they want is less Brits.
Nobody has ever disputed that you can buy a house etc. however a bunch of things that you currently get and take for granted may or may not be available to you after an exit. Working for instance.
In some ways it's a smaller issue than the one of trade and stability but it's going to make things interesting. If an exit is being sold as an opportunity to get shot of all those foreign workers doing jobs in the UK then some 2 way negotiations may fall down.
Spain are probably very keen on the fact it's citizens can go elsewhere to find some work that seems almost non existent in some parts. So if the UK tries to tie up it's borders but expects everyone else to keep theirs open it probably won't be plane sailing.