Jambalaya
You miss my point. If the UK leaves the EU as you wish then you need not care what France or Belgium do. You can be happy when net migration reaches ZERO.
I imagine Brexit TV's being turned off during the news
"Today in Syr"......??????
"Fance to bull doze camps in Cala".......????
Find sweep, lift carpet, sweep.
Sorry Julian, but you're being a tit .
Picardie is lovely I grant you, but saying you will kill yourself if you can only afford to live in Sheffield or Tiger Bay is just being ridiculous I'm afraid.
@scotroutes true but I don't need it to be any harder than it already is, thanks.
Sometimes really struggle with the way things are. Leaving the EU would be so shite for us..
Muddy there is a time and a place for sensitivity and tact on STW. ITS NOW.
there is not the freedom to reside where i like just because i choose it like there is with any country in the EU. You would also be entitled to everything a native was as well due to EU rules.it doesn't stop anyone from moving to another country if they so wish.
Athgray. We all vote for our own interests to some extent, if people feel a political union doesn't work for them then that is surely their right ? Its one thing to think 'better together', its another thing to think 'we are getting a raw deal'. Scots voted on that very premise, why not rUK?
we did this on the scottish thread the answers remain the same as does your view.
Members of the union can only vote to stay or leave they cannot vote for someone else to leave nor have say when they are deciding whether to stay or leave
You may not like this nor accept it but it clear.
#groundhogday
Yes JY, of course there are rules about residency in different Countries, my point is that they are not insurmountable.
People moved to France etc well before the EU existed.
More than a few people have posted heartrending tales on this forum and needed help and kind words, but sometimes you need grounding not hyperbole.
Never thought I would say this but here here JY.
**** you muddydwarf. You are being a shit and you're talking shit.
If you think that life is better in either of those places you are more of a **** than I thought.
You can live wherever you like but that doesn't work for me.
I really would rather die than live in either of those places.
Mods ban me if you wish - but I feel really strongly about this. I really would rather die than live in some cheap shithole in Britain.
And thanks junkyard for your suggestions. I'll figure it out. This place wouldn't miss me much anyway...
Exactly JY, I'm not arguing for anything different. I'm asking what the situation would be if other components of the UK wanted to end the Union & how the EU would view the resulting States.
England could have a vote to leave UK couldn't it? If Scotland can why not?
Edit: I don't care it wont actually happen.
Well Julian, that's your choice, but it sounds rather melodramatic to me.
Sheffield might not be Picardie, Rochdale certainly isn't Province, but both have nice countryside around them, both have life enhancing scenery.
If you think death is preferable to the Pennine hills I really don't know how to respond to that.
[quote=ctk ]England could have a vote to leave UK couldn't it? If Scotland can why not?
I think it's a discussion about England leaving the Union - and the UK continuing to exist as Scotland, Wales and N Ireland, or England deciding to "expel" one of the other countries and remain the UK (or "Continuing State" to be more correct).
And before I get banned for a bit can I just say that if you would rather live cheaply in Sheffield or Tiger Bay than die you really, really do have low standards.
I'd rather pay to take a toxic drink in a flat in Zurich than live in a cheap, nasty place in Britain.
Thanks muddydwarf but if you have to ask the question I don't think I can supply the answer.
Your choice Julian, but life is infinitely more involving, more interesting, and far more exciting than the alternative - wherever you live.
I'd rather be alive in a council estate in Rochdale than dead in a fancy cemetery in Suffolk..
Cheaply in Tiger Bay? That ship has sailed! I cant see a vote either way stopping you moving to France.
I'd draw the line at Rochdale !
(joking, never even been there 😉
And as for the toxic drink in Zürich comment, I've had a family member do exactly that. He didn't take that decision because he couldn't afford a bloody house in Picardie I can tell you that. He left a wife and a year old son, so forgive me if I think scathingly of your concept.
I'd rather be alive in a council estate in Rochdale than dead in a fancy cemetery in Suffolk..
You clearly don't have much of a life then. Rather you than me.
As for the reason I haven't left, well three months to the referendum doesn't leave much time (among other things)
My question is, should England and Wales & Northern Ireland choose to do so together, and remain in a Union, then what would the ramifications be?
Heh - I can't imagine changing the constitutional status of Norn Iron would be tricky. But if you really wanted to screw the UK over youd leave them behind.
Julian, I had sympathy at your first posting and I did feel concern.
However you have now just shown yourself to be a snob.
Yeah, sorry for that MuddyDwarf. No offence meant. No way I could have guessed at that.
But if you can't afford a house anywhere you would like, have no pension, the government is squeezing all your other investments and the rest of life is shite sometimes would that possibly be a a reason?
Konabunny - its a fascinating concept. The UK is a mishmash of conflicting legal acts written over centuries, taking in many different religious/political differences at the time. Unpacking that would be really interesting.
Personally, I see Northern Ireland going back to the Republic eventually.
Yeah, maybe I am a snob. Maybe not. I just would like to live somewhere nice, having grown up in a shithole.
Julian, I do sympathise honestly. But believe me (as a bloke who once hung himself) life is ALWAYS preferable wherever you live in this country
Julian
I get up tight about these things as well. I have some coping mechanisms that help me. If you are really struggling get in touch. I have an idea where you are coming from. (Perhaps a different thread for this).
**** a duck I thought I'd have a look at this thread after chucking out time .........and yep, its running on alcohol
@muddydwarf and @athgray Thanks.
Just can't see how my future, if any, lies in a country I neither like nor trust.
Don't want to lose the opportunity to leave. Would still rather die than lose that opportunity.
kimbers - Member
**** a duck I thought I'd have a look at this thread after chucking out time .........and yep, its running on alcohol
Nonsense.
Read what I said above. Then read it again. I meant it.
Its a trite saying, but its true. Life and Hope. As was said earlier, the rest is just politics and we'll all musdle through somehow whether the Uk stays together or not, whether the UK is in the EU or not.
Junkyard,Jambalaya and myself may have some 'robust' spats on here but I've absolutely no doubt we'd happily buy each other a beer or several should we ever meet.
muddydwarf - Member
Julian, I do sympathise honestly. But believe me (as a bloke who once hung himself) life is ALWAYS preferable wherever you live in this country
Sorry you went though that but I wish I shared that sentiment.
Julian, I really don't mean to sound condescending, but may I suggest talking to a medical professional? I'm not in any way qualified for this but my email is in my profile if you want to rant at someone.
Thanks muddydwarf but it's fine. I didn't take it that way at all.
I've had some shit times recently and there may be some more ahead but hey, ho - that's what alcohol and nicotine are for.
I really am not that bothered. It can be sorted either way.
Of course Wales is a separate nation you halfwit!
I may have made the point clumsily and my choice of words may not have been sufficiently precise but the constitutional settlement Wales has is very different to Scotland. As Gladstone said “The distinction between England and Wales is totally unknown to our constitution.” This can be contrasted with Scotland. Northern Ireland is constitutionally very complicated.
The Welsh might be a nation but Wales is not a nation state (or a state of any kind in fact).
JA - yes, I did misread your first post, I though it was written slightly tongue in cheek. So apologises if my jokey reply seemed insensitive, but the point still stands as does the well-meanings advice from others above. And no alcohol and nicotine are not the answers nor is the "Zurich cup." My cousin took that route last year after a MTB accident left him paralysed, so I have pretty strong views on that topic too.
Politics is a side show and life does go on. If there are times in our lives when this does not ring true, then that is the time for medical help.
Anyway best wishes and good luck - don't let the [s]Bastards[/s] politicians and hyperbole-driven journos get you down. Life is a gift, so treasure it and enjoy it.
Out...sadly the EU has become a corporate circle jerk where strong nations terrorise and impoverish the weak.I'd love to see a new European project, but the current one is corrupt beyond reform and ideally Brexit might start a trend. Of course it might not, but, either way I can't see that staying in offers anything good.
For that matter neither is England, Scotland or NI a state.
My perception and why I'm for remaining in - that bit more independence or 'sovereignty' from London. I hear the normal double standards from the 'outist' - Howard on R4's Today yesterday morning seemed concerned only about the continued import of wine, BMWs and Audis! It is clear where their priorities lie. If the Scots and Welsh nations vote to stay in and the English out why should we be dragged out against our wishes.
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Do the Welsh and Scots not get a vote in the referendum? That's politics - it's not about getting your own way all of the time. And it's ironic they would want to remain part of an organisation that completely ignores their votes anyway - but as long as the EU keep on dishing out free money your loyalty can still be bought. But if we Brexit and the Scots and Welsh want to exit the UK and try to get into the EU then good luck to you. Though t's still doubtful they'll take them, its the same argument we went around during the Scottish independence campaign.
I'm actually on the fence but this week leaning to out. On the basis that the whole argument about influencing the EU from within is poppycock. It's clear that we carry zero influence within Europe. I read this week that basically 100% of the items we've raised within the EU over the past however many years have been voted down so we've completely failed to be able to influence the EU so far. Therefore no point in being shackled to the EU if we don't have the ability to influence it. Better to Brexit and negotiate our own terms for dealing with the EU.
40% of our exports goes to the EU which means 60% of it goes to non-EU countries with the vast majority of our trade growth going forward going to non-EU countries i.e. India and China, so that's the whole trade argument sorted.
Defence? We collaborate with countries outside of the EU all the time. If we exit we'll still collaborate with the EU on issues of terrorism - its a global issue.
Also given the uproar with our own politicians over the Expenses scandal, i'm amazed people are so trusting of the politicians of the European Parliament who make our expenses scandal look like a bit of petit cash pilfering.
Immigration? Getting control of our boarders back doesn't mean stopping immigration. It just means we get a say on who we accept and who we don't. How many people have been raped and murdered by Europe's criminals on the run hiding in the UK? one is too many.
I'm sure next week i'll swing back to 'in', but this week i'm definitely 'out'.
Scotland, Wales and Kernow?
Strange how they missed out N.I isn't it?
It seems pointless arguing that the UK is being hypocritical or trying to stop Scotland leaving, we [b]gave[/b] them a referendum and they bottled it.
40% of our exports goes to the EU which means 60% of it goes to non-EU countries with the vast majority of our trade growth going forward going to non-EU countries i.e. India and China, so that's the whole trade argument sorted
You're not thinking about it from the perspective of our prospective trade partners. Dealing with the much larger EU will be a higher priority for India and China than dealing with a smaller UK. Equally, you don't want to invest in the UK for the domestic market alone - you want to use it as a springboard for the whole EU market - but that won't work if the UK will Brexit and will have to go through an uncertain period of economic, legal and political negotiations and transitions. A non-EU UK is a less attractive and lower priority investment and trade partner.
How many people have been raped and murdered by Europe's criminals on the run hiding in the UK? one is too many.
Hope you're looking forward to getting all those British and Irish gangsters back from Spain...
And it's ironic they would want to remain part of an organisation that completely ignores their votes anyway
Consistent is it not as they voted to remain in the UK and got a Tory govt - would you like to argue this is their votes being counted and them getting what they wanted? How on earth did you not not the ginoromous amount of irony inherent in that "point"? Someone even gave yo a picture to help.
Was it a fact fomr Jamby you were reading? Dave just had a big meeting where he got concessions for the UK [ mainly minor I agree] but did get it entrenched that we are not committed to further unionI read this week that basically 100% of the items we've raised within the EU over the past however many years have been voted down
Still 100% of everything we wanted never happened 😕 Why do people write down/believe such obviously false statement
Your figures are wrong [ its over 50%] and no company can just switch markets overnight so its not "sorted" because you named some other countries with a market 😯40% of our exports goes to the EU which means 60% of it goes to non-EU countries with the vast majority of our trade growth going forward going to non-EU countries i.e. India and China, so that's the whole trade argument sorted.
Someone who sells parts to BMW cannot just tomorrow start selling things to China. Its not as simple as you think it is.
Clearly over time we can do this but short term its obvious to everyone but the most committed brexiter that the short to medium term effects as we adjust our markets and how we trade will have a negative effect on us/GDP.
I wouldn't worry too much Julian, even if it is a "Leave" vote, it'll take years - possibly a decade before the exit actually completes. Meantime, you'll still be free to live and work in the EU as at present.
And in ten years time everything will look different. We'll be teleporting to work and riding our hovver bikes at weekends. The local SNP activist promised me that when she was trying to convince me of the benefits of Scottish independence. She also promised she would come and help me paint my house if I promised to vote "Yes", but that's a different subject really.