You are right, they won't go, but will cut down a lot.
85% of Nissan made in Sunderland are for the European market.
Well chewkw the Brexit vote and labours struggles have delivered an opportunity the likes of which no Tory government has ever seen and they know it, they have full control and no one to oppose them- corbyns refusal to address immigration (a load of bollocks anyway) will drive the disgruntled labour Brexiteers into the arms of UKIP and further fracture the opposition. Trouble is most centrist folk like me will vote for no one so it's left to the right/left nutters to scratch over the pile of shite.
It's interesting that Sunderland as a town voted to leave? Yet the implications on very very well paid jobs at the Nissan site are genuine - commitment or ignorance?
What is the size of the Tory majority?
Have they been defeated in the Commons recently?
Ignorance
They have a majority and a reasonably United party
No really.
and a reasonably United
Just not united on the only real important issue
True, true ... no peace of mind for everyone.oldmanmtb - Member
Trouble is most centrist folk like me will vote for no one so it's left to the right/left nutters to scratch over the pile of shite.
It is Not ignorance because they just do not want to be part of EU regardless of the benefits.oldmanmtb - Member
It's interesting that Sunderland as a town voted to leave? Yet the implications on very very well paid jobs at the Nissan site are genuine - commitment or ignorance?
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/european-customers-boycotting-british-cars-eu-brexit-vote-jaguar-land-rover ]Jaguar Land Rover are a bit Nervous about hard brexit too[/url]
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/30/anna-soubry-brands-liam-foxs-free-trade-speech-delusional ]not divided eh ?[/url]
[quote=chewkw ]It is Not ignorance because they just do not want to be part of EU regardless of the benefits.
Which is ignorance of what is really important in life and how political decisions actually affect them. To be fair that's an ignorance shared by most people. In terms of their actual lives (ie going to work, down the pub in the evening, walking the dog, having kids etc.) it's hard to see how leaving the EU benefits most of them - it's an ideological thing based on a somewhat strange set of ideals.
[quote=Klunk ]not divided eh ?
Well of course it is - they have Fox, BJ and whoever the other bloke is on one side of the divide, most of the rest on the other preparing to cast them adrift. At least that appears to be the only plausible explanation for the way the toxic triumvirate keep getting allowed to spout a load of bollocks before being knocked back and told to shut up.
Shakelton I have written at length about my reasons for Brexit, why I think we are better off and the various options for how the future may look and what my preferences are. To be honest if there is one thing I couod be critised it would be repeatedly reposting the same views on Brexit and the various future outcomes. I can no more guaranty what the future will look like outside the EU as Remainer could predict how it would be inside.
Engaging further in a discussion where some posters are simply intent on making personal attacks ? Well I've got better things to do than respond.
aracer - Member
Which is ignorance of what is really important in life and how political decisions actually affect them
Sometimes in life you just have to risk it all even if it means hardship. If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Not sure about they even care about ideology this or that. I asked my friends they just laughed.it's an ideological thing based on a somewhat strange set of ideals.
[quote=chewkw ]If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Do you really think it will? Or when it all turns to bollocks will they just find something else to blame?
Not sure about they even care about ideology this or that
It doesn't matter what they call it or whether they understand the meaning of the word - if they're making decisions based on something other than facts or real benefits then it's ideology. Racism is fundamentally an ideology.
not divided eh ?
I said this on the Corbyn thread, but I think the tories are about to give labour a lesson in how to do party in-fighting properly. For all it's venom, the labour troubles are mostly about the fact that the blairites completely f***** up and couldn't accept it. They appear to be doing so now though. The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy. The tories however are split ideologically down the middle. Only power holds them together, and given May's less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together.
aracer - Member
chewkw » If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Do you really think it will? Or when it all turns to bollocks will they just find something else to blame?
That depends on your British culture.
What is the norm of blaming?
In the Far East - corrupted politicians.
dazh - Member
not divided eh ?
The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy. The tories however are split ideologically down the middle. Only power holds them together, and given May's less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together.
Any politician or party that does not embrace Brexit will slowly disappear from politics in the next 20 years.
ThanksEngaging further in a discussion where some posters are simply intent on making personal attacks ? Well I've got better things to do than respond.
If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Because, they, obviously, are not the only one effected.
they have Fox, BJ and whoever the other bloke is on one side of the divide
Does anyone really think Fox (and DD) really want the same thing as BJ?
Well BJ simply wants power, and has accidentally found himself over there, but with about the most power he's likely ever to get now - what do the other two want?
Agree with DazH the brexit negotiations ais going to be like one slow car crash - tbh it would be whoever was in power as its just going to be ames
So far the three main players acannot agree with each other never mind the non brexiters in their party - ie th emajority.
“Liam Fox’s speech this week was very worrying. In fact, it was delusional,” she told the Guardian. “How can we have ‘freer’ free trade? Let’s get real, for God’s sake. It’s really worrying that these are the senior people who have the future of our country in their hands. May is the voice of sanity, and without her I don’t know where the three Brexiteers would take us.”
kelvin - Member
If that that makes them happy with hardship why not?
Because, they, obviously, are not the only one effected.
We are all affected regardless so I don't see why we cannot work together to make everyone happy again.
I said this on the Corbyn thread, but I think the tories are about to give labour a lesson in how to do party in-fighting properly.
No-score draw more likely
For all it's venom, the labour troubles are mostly about the fact that the blairites completely f***** up and couldn't accept it.
Come on dazh, be serious
The divide in the tories on the other hand goes much deeper. The labour party agree on pretty much most things, but disagree on strategy.
As abpve - have you been on holiday recently or were you fooled by Smith's attempt to be Militant-lite
May's less than competent record at the home office I doubt she has the ability to hold it all together.
Ok, you finished strongly, phew.
I used to agree as I am not a May fan. But she has surprised me on the upside so far. Still v early days. Dare I say it but good FT article on her situation today.
what do the other two want?
You really need to ask?
R W O E P - re-arrange
I like May.
She has a good no nonsense approach of not giving needy running commentaries.
May will win 2 general elections easily if she is strong enough to command.
Basil Brush could win two general elections against Corbyn.
BOOM BOOM
5thElefant - Member
Basil Brush could win two general elections against Corbyn.
I respect JC for standing firm without giving in to the champagne socialists. Who is that bloke that was seen at the field partying? I mean WTF ...
Historically we have always been a free trading nation, that is unlikely to change, recognising as we do that lots of previous world altercations have their roots in trade protectionism. So yes Fox saying it'll be free-er trading has roots in truth, anyone who has tried to vye with the European 'Chambers of Commerce' system will know that protectionism is alive and well in the single market to this very day and that the single market as a free trade area is largely an illusion.
So what can we expect I hear you cry, well you can expect to remain as you always have been, a market, to be sold to, abused by global capitalism, mis informed by corporate controlled media and fed the illusion of democracy, exiting the EU isn't going to change that. It will however be a minor speed bump in Corporate Americas domination of the region they call Europe, TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward, for whatever that's worth.
It's not going to save the planet that's for sure, but it's not going to be the disaster that the remainers have attempted to scare us into thinking. there's an old saying in business, 'one door closes, another door opens' and that's the way to view this.
As a trading nation, the sensible play is to make it easier and cheaper to trade with your partners, not the other way round. We largely had that in place and yet decide to throw it all away. Cretinous.
which of the dear departed is rosccore?
Great to see chewkw back. Just the straight-talking common-sense fact-based outlook this thread has been missing 😆
Large corporation good or bad?
...
Now is the time to see some of them vanish forever.
Are you suggesting that people voted for Brexit because they [b]wanted[/b] to drive all the large corporations away from the UK??
Well that's a new one!
It is kind of amusing to see people moaning about Nissan's move being political.
Nissan publicly came out for Remain before the referendum. They warned about the potential impact on the Sunderland plant. They even sued Vote Leave for using their logo and misquoting them.
3 months ago on this same thread:
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/215#post-7795219 ]igm[/url]
Renault-Nissan plant at Sunderland is competing for a new model, will they be on a level playing field with a French plant?[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/215#post-7795331 ]mdavids[/url]
The next new model is the new Juke, but only if they can hit the cost targets that were promised. They only just won it and that extra potential £??? that has just been added by voting to leave might well tip the scales in favour of the Renault plant they were competing with.
As for Jaguar, my brother-in-law and his mates have worked for them for 20 odd years and done extremely well out of it (judging by his massive house in Warwick).
Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK - no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.
TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward
What...?
Our government were the biggest supporters of TTIP. They were gagging to sign us up to it straight away and it was other countries in the EU that refused to sign and insisted on "checks and balances".
[i]"We should set ourselves the urgent task of completing the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership [TTIP] – the EU-US Free Trade agreement.
This would be the world's biggest ever trade deal – together our economies would account for half of global output."[/i]
-- [url= https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/extracts-from-the-chancellors-speech-on-europe ]George Osborne, 15th Jan 2014[/url]
What...?Our government were the biggest supporters of TTIP. They were gagging to sign us up to it straight away and it was other countries in the EU that refused to sign and insisted on "checks and balances".
"We should set ourselves the urgent task of completing the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership [TTIP] – the EU-US Free Trade agreement.
This would be the world's biggest ever trade deal – together our economies would account for half of global output."
-- George Osborne, 15th Jan 2014
You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don't think you'll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all. The greatest trick May pulled was convincing them she wasn't the Brexiteer she quite clearly is.
Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK - no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.
Politics of envy isn't it?
I guess its easier to hope others will be brought down to your level then to try and raise yourself up.
Perhaps he should put his money where his mouth is and get rid of all the goods in his home developed by those evil corporations, maybe do us all a favour and start with whichever device he's accessing the internet from.
Mr Ghosns' statement the other day is nothing new, he's just re-iterating the company line which was made clear before the referendum.
They're a business, they aren't trying to play politics. If it becomes cheaper to build elsewhere because of trade tariffs they'll go. Unless May puts her hand in her pocket and makes up the shortfall.
You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don't think you'll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all.
Riiiight.. it was that bad old government, the Tories, that wanted us to sign up. This new Tory government are completely different. 🙄
Assuming that were true, do you think we are now in a [i]stronger[/i] negotiating position to dictate terms when the USA decide to approach us with a new TTIP deal?
We are absolutely desperate for trade deals, we are less than a tenth the size of the EU, and the pound is at an historic low against the dollar.
Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we'll have to send the work experiences kids.
Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we'll have to send the work experiences kids.
We'll just get some immigrants in to do it for us.
GrahamS - Member
You might have missed the fact Osbourne and the Eton elite are no more, I don't think you'll find the current adminstration quite as oblivious to what TTIP contained for us all.
Riiiight.. it was that bad old government, the Tories, that wanted us to sign up. This new Tory government are completely different.Assuming that were true, do you think we are now in a stronger negotiating position to dictate terms when the USA decide to approach us with a new TTIP deal?
We are absolutely desperate for trade deals, we are less than a tenth the size of the EU, and the pound is at an historic low against the dollar.
Plus all our good negotiators will be busy sorting out all the Brexit stuff, so we'll have to send the work experiences kids.
Before we start, answer me this, are you arguing in favour of TTIP?
No, based on the very little we actually know about TTIP, I'm against it.
But whether you are for or against it, we are undeniably in a much poorer negotiating position for "TTIP Mk2" or whatever post-Brexit Trade Deal the US decides to offer us (if they do at all - Trade Deals are a hot potato there at the moment).
"TTIP might not be quite as effective as first planned, but by and large our subservience to the capitalists system may at least contain some checks and balances retained by our own Government going forward, for whatever that's worth."
We'd have been signed up to that, had it not been for the rest of Europe.
Also: you're 'Just5minutes'.
I've just realised.
GrahamS - Member
Are you suggesting that people voted for Brexit because they wanted to drive all the large corporations away from the UK??
EU yes. Large corporations? That depends on which one of them are winding people up.
Nissan publicly came out for Remain before the referendum. They warned about the potential impact on the Sunderland plant. They even sued Vote Leave for using their logo and misquoting them.
I bet they want subsidies of some sort but just saying it differently or they wanted to be treated specially with some sort of lower tax etc whatever ...
Jaguar employee 26,000 people in the UK - no idea why you think it is a good idea to drive them away.
They ain't going anyway because I bet they are trying it on ....
The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them. Imagine if Range Rover is driven by some blokes from say Asia or some other countries ... nobody will buy them.
They want to sell Range Rover they need the British people to sell that image and same goes to Jaguar. Nobody in the world will buy Range Rover or Jaguar if their image is associated with say Asia.
I double dare them Nissan, Ranger Rover & Jaguar to go away from the UK.
p/s:
Great to see chewkw back. Just the straight-talking common-sense fact-based outlook this thread has been missing
I was away learning other cultures ... 😀
Sorry, cross-post with GrahamS.
chewkw
The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them.
...they sell 8 out of 10 RR's abroad, chewkw.....so: bollocks.
codybrennan - Member
chewkw
The only reason Range Rover is doing well because the British people drive them and the Queen has them.
...they sell 8 out of 10 RR's abroad, chewkw.....so: bollocks.
Yes, because the well off people bought them for status symbol to be associated with certain class. Especially the very well off British class. Same goes to Mercedes in Asia.
You try associate Range Rover with people from say my hometown of Borneo then see if the well off buy or even sit in one of them.
In the Far East we drive Toyota Landcrusier or other Japanese brands 4x4, only those that want to show off drive Range Rover. You go see.
Nobody in the world will buy Range Rover or Jaguar if their image is associated with say Asia.
Ummm... Jaguar Land Rover is owned by [url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Motors ]Tata Motors[/url] - an Indian company headquartered in Mumbai.
