[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Brexit isn't about having a plan

Hehe.. you wish it wasn't.. but we actually need one if we are to do it.

I think the problem here is not necessarily the referendum, but the fact that the government thinks the result means we have to implement it. The referendum should have simply indicated the will of the people - the government then should have promised to figure out what it could do to work towards that, IF it's practical. None of this 'Brexit means Brexit' sloganeering with talk of article 50 in 6 months' time.

[quote=noltae ]Brexit isn't about having a plan - It's about the capacity to make plans of which remaining teathered to an inherently facist system prohibits - There is nothing intrinsic pertaining to Brexit ..

Phew. So we could come up with a plan which involves staying in the EU then?

If anything is worse than having the damn referendum in the first place, it's how the government has handled it since.

Actually, the debate was pretty stupid too. So in ascending order of stupidity it's

The referendum pledge - stupid
The debate - scandalously stupid
The handling of the aftermath - colossally stupid

These politicians have no idea what they are doing. Have politicians ever really known what they are doing?

I must say, the whole thing is wonderfully entertaining.

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[quote=molgrips ]Have politicians ever really known what they are doing?

Probably not - it's just that previously they've always had civil servants who did holding their hand. This time the civil service have no idea what to do either.

This time the civil service have no idea what to do either.

and more meanwhile....

Research fears
Dame Julia's warnings follow concerns about the stability of research funding at UK universities, with some research groups saying they lost out on grants in the weeks following the referendum.
The latest global university ranking table, published on Tuesday by QS, shows UK universities losing position compared with international competitors.
"Uncertainty over research funding, immigration rules and the ability to hire and retain the top young talent from around the world seems to be damaging the reputation of the UK's higher education sector," said QS head of research Ben Sowter.
Mr Sowter said his research was carried out before the referendum but he believes the result will have "undoubtedly added to this uncertainty".

(Awaits the spin machine)

Australian trade Minister says no deal until Brexit complete.

'Advance agenda'
In a joint statement, Mr Fox and Mr Ciobo announced the creation of a working group to discuss areas of mutual co-operation including future investment opportunities.
The working group's first meeting will be in Australia in January.

Brexit isn't about having a plan - It's about the capacity to make plans of which remaining teathered to an inherently facist system prohibits - There is nothing intrinsic pertaining to Brexit ..

Back of the queue with Australia now as well, oh this Brexit lark is going so well isnt it?

What can we possibly trade with Australia that will make up the shortfall of leaving Europe? I heard that the service industry makes up 80% of our GDP how is that going to help Australia. Distance, time zones notwithstanding what services are we going to sell them? What manufacturing are we going to trade with them?

It is a joke, a really bad joke.

As previously
Aus Imports Cars and Pharma as the mains stays, hope the UK doesn't stuff up it's motor and pharma insustries... The trade off will be cheaper Oz wine probably.
Also being an English speaking country the UK is/was seen as a good EU staging point for HQ's etc. as the languange and culture made it easy to set up a base in the EU.
Say hello Dublin 🙂

But, but, we were told everyone would be queuing up to sign deals with us!

Seems like we're the ones doing the queuing. Talk about humiliating.

These politicians have no idea what they are doing. Have politicians ever really known what they are doing?

Yep.. They get paid regardless of how harsh joe public gets hit with brexit.

I just think the biggest thing they learnt from it was that they can pretty much lie and use a good slogan and (so far) get away with it.

BTW Breakfast means Breakfast.

Still at least Liam Fox is guaranteed several trips to Australia a year, he probably sees it as a just reward, he fought desperately to avoid paying back some of the largest sums owed in the expenses scandal, after all.
Will his chum Werrity get to go too? What's the betting his Healthcare company (that fox is a major shareholder in) will get a good line on Australian healthcare provision.
While they are at it maybe they could discuss Hunt's flight of Jr Drs to Oz 😉

I'm still waiting for Fox to announce a major (arms) deal with Sri Lanka, they must be getting annoyed at waiting for the backhanders paid to Fox and Werrity taking so long to bear fruit (even tho we are already their biggest trading partner after India, despite their abysmal human rights record and american cable/Wikileaks revelations )

I dont really have a problem with the fact that they have no idea/plan about Brexit - that was/is obvious - but i do have a problem that the BSers pretended that having a plan might be possible and that Brexit would be relatively painless. It isnt and wont be. It will be tortuous and demanding not least because we lack the resources to deliver it.

We have years of unnecessary pain and uncertainty inflicted on us on the basis of lies, racism and xenophobia. To watch that clown Gove in the debate was another low point.

**** Europe **** australia we can trade with the Faroe Isands. (Hopefully)
When that **** said that there will be no going back on Brexit because some people didn't like it he seems to forget that "some" is very nearly half the vote.
****ing stupid ****ing ****.

Politicians and the none commercial public really don't get this 'trade' thing, it's not about wether we can trade with Australia, Europe or wherever, its what the duty tariffs will be. When we went into the single market, 100's of duty brokers lost their jobs, if we don't get a tariff free deal with Europe which I have to say is unlikely since they don't want us becoming the back door to their territory which would be incredibly profitable for us if we managed to pull it off. Then there will be simply more tariffs to apply at the point of entry, which means more jobs.
If you've ever imported stuff or worked in a company that does you will know the Tariff book is bigger than the Holy Bible and Koran stacked on top of each other and just as ambiguous. The Dutch in particular are the masters in 'interpretation' hence the massive trade hub around Rotterdam, we on the other hand have dull jobsworths that apply the first tariff they come to with the resulting increase in the costs of your goods.

Personally although it's going to be a huge amount of work, I'm happier that in the long run control of inbound pricing is back under our mandate and if we manage to swing a deal, it could be a bonanza for UK manufacturers.

Take bikes for example, there is a huge tariff on ready built bikes from China, yet if imported as components it's only about 4%, there's a deal between us and Taiwan yet an anti dumping clause from I'm not sure where, probably the EU.

If we negotiate a better deal with China, down would come the cost of entry of bikes into here, then the possibility of re export to Europe via our tariff free agreement could flood their market with cheap chinese built complete bikes, so do you see where it could go and why it's going to be complex?

but i do have a problem that the BSers pretended that having a plan might be possible and that Brexit would be relatively painless

Well as I said, if they'd treated the referendum as the advisory statement it was meant to be, we might have been able to do something.

Only one man can save us now

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The Doctor?

Well as I said, if they'd treated the referendum as the advisory statement it was meant to be, we might have been able to do something.

What?

Start exploring what would happen, put together a potential plan, debate its consequences, and then a commons vote on exit. Or maybe incorporating voter's concerns into party policies and manifestos.....

In other words, the constitutional equivalent of Relate, rather than simply popping out for fags and not coming back.

Or maybe incorporating voter's concerns into party policies and manifestos.....

How do you incorporate 'burn the foreigners' into sensible party policy?

coffee/keyboard

thanks dazh!! 🙂

Well, I see Brexit trade agreements are preceding as expected..

The US, China & Oz have all told us to naff off till we've invoked Article 50, then they can properly screw us to the floor!

Well done BSers!

Oh come on why so negative? Slowly we will turn this country into such a shit hole that all those nasty foreigners will bugger off.
Three cheers for nigel. ****.

Good point zippy!

At least we'll have taken back "CONTROLLLLLL!!!!" as well......????

More evidence that the EU has our best interests at heart :

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/06/transatlantic-trade-partnership-ttip-canada-eu?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=189252&subid=11255125&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2 ]The transatlantic trade deal TTIP may be dead, but something even worse is coming [/url]

More evidence that the EU has our best interests at heart :

Indeed, but it's not just the EU. As noted in the article, the UK govt is equally enthusiastic to sign away our lives to multinationals. What we need is a party that has a different idea about the way forward that focuses on the rights of ordinary people, and not the profits of the already-very-rich.

Thing is - suppose such a party looked like emerging - how do you think the establishment would respond? Maybe with a media onslaught designed to make sure that it could never get the necessary support of the proles. Sound familiar?

"What we need is a party that has a different idea about the way forward"

Aye laddie the Yorkshire Party, it's the place we can all winge about cost of everything.

Free Yorkshire! An it better be cheap.

DrJ - Member

Indeed, but it's not just the EU. As noted in the article, the UK govt is equally enthusiastic to sign away our lives to multinationals

Considerably more enthusiastic; if they had their way we'd have probably negotiated worse terms for TTIP while insisting it was "brave".

I see Liam Fox is doing a sterling job of advertising the UK to the world.

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I can't tell if he's getting his excuses in early or trying to blame businesses as hes finally realised that outside of his Brexit fantasyland foreign investors see Europe as a bigger priority than the UK. 🙄

Phew, at least he's not got a silly man bun this time.^

You've got the admire the sheer brass neck of Fox, a man who has not only spent his entire career living off the state but was also caught defrauding it. Breathtaking.

Also couldn't help but raise a smile at the Grady, the union lady, demanding that her members aren't the ones having to 'pay' for Brexit. What percentage of her members do we reckon voted to leave? I'm guessing at +50%.

I would happily challenge the deceitful DR to a mirror test to see who is the fatter and take an hours worked test. What stupid comments, even if taken out of context.

I hope [s]theresa[/s] Teresa knows what she is doing by giving these fools enough rope. They can do a lot of day amaze before they hang themselves.

From personal experience I think Dr Fox might have a point, even if rather inelegantly put. To export goods you need to put the legwork in (agents, trade shows, learning your markets etc) and many SMEs (again anecdotal experience) don't do this if they can keep their heads above water doing the easier sales.

Export figures from a macro perspective probably also support his argument - at least outside of the services sector.

Ironic though that the great export success story that is the City and associated professional services will be eviscerated by this idiots campaign for Brexit.

I hope theresa Teresa knows what she is doing by giving these fools enough rope. They can do a lot of day amaze before they hang themselves

I'm still thinking that the plan is to let the trio of fools make such a mess of the whole thing that the wider public will realise that is going to be too costly to pursue
And then she goes and releases her grammar schools pan flying in the face of the evidence that it's worse for social mobility and attainment

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme ]visas for euro travel[/url]

Apparently we're not going to get £350M/week for the NHS after all:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge

Well they've got to pay all the lawyers and consultants first.

[i]The new department charged with handling Brexit has spent more than £250,000 on legal advice over the past two months.

Government lawyers have been paid £33,000 a week to look into the legal implications for Britain leaving the EU.

This does not cover the cost of any external legal advice and the government has revealed plans for recruiting from outside the civil service are being "considered".[/i]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/brexit-department-spends-more-than-250000-on-legal-advice-in-jus/

£10bn+ saving per anum pays for a lot of Brexit lawyers

Did we need visas to travel to Europe before '73 (Soviet block excluded) ?

We didn't need visas, but the world is a different place to 1973.

First time I went to France was on one of those passport things you got from the post office, and never actually showed it is to anyone. Before 9/11, it was never an issue going to the US either.

And £10bn, yer right...

We didn't need visas, but the world is a different place to 1973.