And CMD was correct on one thing - this is/will be self-inflicted harm and we have no one else to blame
Which reminds me isnt Davies giving a Brexit update today?
jambalaya - Member
@cody good news also if you are 1 of the 68% of Brits who own their own home. A lower £ generaloy attracts foreign money into UK property in the same way it helps tourism and manufacturing
That's a very narrow view. It helps assembly type manufacturing where labour rate is the cost driver, but doesn't help actual manufacturing (IE Rolls Royce, GKN, Airbus, etc) as raw material/imports costs are now substantially higher.
Which reminds me isnt Davies giving a Brexit update today?
Damn, missed it. How were the details and the plans?
It was largely aspirational and spin. Heavy on what we would achieve light on how.
4 pledges and very little/nothing of concrete - his dept is now at about 300 staff
to be fair there was nothing to stop this happening 😉I think the fingers are so far in the ears they are touching.
nice to see May trumpeting the fact that 5 countries in the G20 are interested in doing a deal, so that means 15 are at varying levels of uninterested?
And yes it is very easy to do a trade deal, harder to do a deal that doesn't see you get shafted. but hey ho.
A lower £ generaloy attracts foreign money into UK property
Jam - if you think having dodgy Russians buy up UK housing stock is a good thing for Britain you are [s]the biggest moron [/s] very misguided.
Junker's nose out of joint 😀
Supposedly said today that as UK is still in the EU it is the EU who should be conducting any trade negotiations with other parties. In another major development Hollande said he accepted that the UK would not be triggering Article 50 in 2016. Welcome to the programme Francois.
@mrmo well over many years the EU managed to do trade deals with The Vatican and Palestine before finally adding Canada. So the fact we are engaged with 5 G20 countries shows how much more able a single country is able to do a deal in bilateral talks than the total dogs breakfast that is 28 European nations. In fairness it's not surprising the EU made so little progress as its primarily an inward looking organisation.
@Leku we live in a free and open society - we don't control who buys what. FWIW Asian and specificaly Chinese buyers are much more numerous than the Russians who whatever you think of them tend to spend a lot of mkney here on rennovations etc. We've always had a lot of intrnational buyers, used to be mainly Arab money but much more diverse now
@Daffy international products like aircraft engines are priced in dollars. The raw material costs don't change just because £/$ moves (assuming they are "imported") but our local UK labour costs, premesis etc are all cheaper in $ terms
Yes, they do. My business costs are in £ due to UK funding for RnD and my raw material costs are in $ and €...in which direction do you think my cost have gone and what effect do you think that's had on my profitability?
If sales of aircraft have not gone up and I still have to pay my staff the same wage, whilst material costs and energy costs are increasing...what's happening to my profit?
Your model relies on increasing sales and assumes that a business has the capacity to handle the increased work with additional investment in either man power or equipment. It's flawed.
Daffy
The raw material costs don't change just because £/$ moves
Depends how you've hedged your accounts really.
Yes it does but why hedge costs in dollars if the sale peice is in dollars, just saying. Yes a lower exchange rate "imports inflation" for good consumed within the UK but we've some scope for that as inflation is below the BoE target. There where posters here saying a lower £ would be bad for manufacturers but usually thats not the case
So far it's been humble pie all round from the doomsday merchants.
You spent weeks after the referendum telling us to ignore the short terms and that we'd need to wait a decade to see how things turn out.
But we haven't even left yet and now you're saying the "doomsday merchants" were wrong?
good news also if you are 1 of the 68% of Brits who own their own home.
....
A lower £ generaloy attracts foreign money into UK property in the same way it helps tourism and manufacturing
I was speaking (amiably) to an old boy a couple of weeks ago who told me he voted Leave because he didn't think it was fair that his son couldn't afford to buy property is his own country because "it was all owned by foreigners".
I pointed out that leaving the EU won't prevent that and a weaker pound actually makes it a lot easier for foreigners to buy up UK property.
He changed the subject. 😕
Yes, they do. My business costs are in £ due to UK funding for RnD and my raw material costs are in $ and €...in which direction do you think my cost have gone and what effect do you think that's had on my profitability?
what are these the R&D costs you get tax credits of 230% for offsetting the corporation tax ?
If sales of aircraft have not gone up and I still have to pay my staff the same wage, whilst material costs and energy costs are increasing...what's happening to my profit?
Your model relies on increasing sales and assumes that a business has the capacity to handle the increased work with additional investment in either man power or equipment. It's flawed.
Unlike doing R&D and not figuring out how to work smarter, maybe they should remove the idiot in charge and put an experienced resource manager in there to make a profit.
I'm pretty sure Jambaliar must be an absolute master troll.
Anyway, want to remind yourself why you voted leave?
http://voteleavetakecontrol.org/our_case.html
Unlike doing R&D and not figuring out how to work smarter, maybe they should remove the idiot in charge and put an experienced resource manager in there to make a profit.
Are you calling (taking a wild guess based on financial reports) Rolls Royce incompetent as opposed to taking responsibility for the effect that the brexit vote has had?
That's hilarious coming from a brexiteer, the people who usually **** themselves senseless to the sound of a Merlin engine.
You know, I'd start believing in god if Rolls Royce ever goes under because of Brexit - the hilarity would just be too much for me to process.
How were the details and the plans?
More or less as detailed as you'd expect.
So David Davies was just expressing his opinion yesterday.
"Theresa May has slapped down one of her most senior Cabinet Ministers after he said it is "very improbable" that the UK will remain a member of the single market if the country is to regain control of its borders.
The Prime Minister's spokesman said it is not right to be "putting all your cards on the table" and claimed David Davis was setting out "his opinion", not government policy, when he spoke in Parliament yesterday.
Mr Davis told the House of Commons that it is "a simple truth" that if the UK was forced to accept free movement of people it would be unlikely that the country could remain in the single market. "
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/06/theresa-may-rebukes-david-davis-over-warning-that-uk-could-leave/ ]Naughty boy[/url]
Any bets on how long she can keep micromanaging the egos?
I thought it was well established that anything from a Brexit point of view is only opinion and not to be believed. Don't try and hold anyone to what they say as they really didn't mean it and as the minister responsible had no business trying to make policy... Satire is truly dead
The Prime Minister's spokesman said it is not right to be "putting all your cards on the table"
Quite right, but it might raise confidence if we could at least see the deck.
The deck is very complex.
They don't know what game they're playing yet.
It's a ****ing joke. Well it would be if the stakes weren't so high. 10 weeks in and they don't have a ****ing clue, not a single one of them. They haven't even got to the beginning of the beginning.
You mean those advocating Brexit didn't have a detailed exit strategy ready to table? I'm shocked.
I didn't follow the argument here, but I'm guessing most were for remaining, with the Government in charge and very much assuming the remain vote would get it and positively pushing in that direction, why would they have a plan, it was unthinkable.
But it's here and now they have to grasp the nettle, so my question would be who would you rather be arguing our case? I'm no lover of the Tories, but I very much get the vibe Mrs May is a contrary enough, tough enough hard nosed female who will not sell us short.
I like the fact she's stuffed Hinkley back on the burner (I'm sure it's a chip to be played later with the French and Chinese) It's very unusual for the Japs to be so undiplomatically loud, like they allow free movement of people into japan ffs, there is the defence issue, it is a little known fact the Eu contributes allegedly 50% to our defense budget and that was due to include Trident, then there's TTIP which we really don't want to be signed into, plus a whole host of other complexities that are going to take years to unravel, but despite all this I'm still inclined to the view better in than out, well into the current arrangement, what the EU will look like in 2 years time remains to be seen, but my money is on it being something very different to what we have now.
I very much get the vibe Mrs May is a contrary enough, tough enough hard nosed female who will not sell us short.
Problem is that most of her party want two mutually incompatible things. They want successful businesses, which means free market, but they don't want foreigners all over the place, which is a condition for the free market.
[quote=GrahamS ]
The Prime Minister's spokesman said it is not right to be "putting all your cards on the table"
Quite right, but it might raise confidence if we could at least see the deck.
I think at this point I'd settle for just seeing a card they're not holding
Nothing they can do about 'foreigners' now, they've spent too long badly educating and 'indulging' the indigenous species not to have to rely on work ethics from other countries, it's just the volume they might eventually have to bring under control, it is getting a bit rammed and if you are unfortunate like me to have to live in the South which is fast becoming a building sitet, you might also come to that conclusion.
The free market is a trade thing, trade also needs people, there will be some form of deal with free movement of employed folk, but I suspect there will be a requirement for English speakers among low skilled workers, we can't operate without them.
then there's TTIP which we really don't want to be signed into
I'm not sure that our government agree on that.
The UK was the biggest supporter of TTIP in the EU. It was the rest of the EU that prevented us from signing it (thankfully).
if you are unfortunate like me to have to live in the South which is fast becoming a building site
Person living in the South complaining about people living in the South...?
TTIP was never going to happen, the EU constantly delayed and fudged and renegotiated to the point of death, it was just another Brexiter lie
Having seen some of David Davies impassioned waffling yesterday asserting that we'd not be in the single market only to see him slapped down by PM May I'm more convinced than ever that she's set him up to fail, but what's the betting he tries to get us to sign up to TTIP and try and claim it as a great trade agreement.
He's already got 300? people working at the ministry of Brexit, and we are told that it will have to expand hugely to have a chance at negotiating our way out easily
Brexit, It's never going to happen.....
I knew the brexiters didn't have a plan at the time of the referedum: I was rather expecting those who want to leave to have at least started to come up with one in the 10 weeks since.
Agree with kimbers et al:
one of the worrying things for me in all of this is that if we do exit, I can see America putting the TTIP screws to us- by this I mean that any 'sweeping free trade' deal (in reality of course there's no such thing) will be conditional on us signing up to it.
Before I get shouted down, I'm well aware of existing trade agreements that we have with the US, but as others have said above, we were almost the solo cheerleaders for TTIP in the EU, and I can see this becoming a condition.
Don't be daft. They bailed out. It's someone else's problem to work out how.
Current Brexit analogy:
It's like being in a plane half an hour away from a safe landing in London, passing over your house and simply jumping out. Then thinking everything's great cos you're really close to home, in fact you'll be there in two minutes. Much better than going all the way to London!
what are these the R&D costs you get tax credits of 230% for offsetting the corporation tax ?
Once again, I have absolutely no idea what you're saying...
UK Research tax credits are ~7.5%, but once again you missed the point by almost a parsec.
And the hits keep on coming.
There is no reliable data to identify EU nationals in the UK or the length of their stay in the country, immigration minister Robert Goodwill has said.
He told MPs this lack of detail would not affect Brexit negotiations as he could not foresee a situation in which all EU nationals were told to leave
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37291830 ]"We have databases"[/url]
Once again, I have absolutely no idea what you're saying...
You evidently have no idea about R&D tax relief either.
the longer you lot go on and on with your obviously complete knowledge about britex, you are delaying the inevitable independence for Yorkshire.
You "comer inner's" taking up our trails, drinking our beer. Free Yorkshire! an better be cheap.
philxx1975 - Member
You evidently have no idea about R&D tax relief either.
No, no idea at all, and neither do our external accountants, nor any of the internal finance team.
In fact, why don't we fire them all and take you on as a consultant?
it is a little known fact the Eu contributes allegedly 50% to our defense budget and that was due to include Trident,
Little known is somewhat of an understatement !
How can David Davies possibly say what the outcome of negotiations which haven't even started yet will be ?
He and the Government have given our objectives/best case scenario
1) A trade deal, not necssarily full access to the single market
2) A deal specific to the UK, it won't be the Norwegean deal, it won't be the Swiss Deal etc
3) No freedom of movement
4) No budget contribution
As for TTIP I think its now dead if it wasn't before, Germany and France don't want ti and Clinton and Trump want to renogtiate NAFTA never mind sign anything new. TTIP was/became an Obama project, he's done now. We do a lot of business with the US without a deal, I forsee that being the near term future.
Brexit isn't about having a plan - It's about the capacity to make plans of which remaining teathered to an inherently facist system prohibits - There is nothing intrinsic pertaining to Brexit ..
^^ this
Phew yeah, we really stuck it to those Fascists:
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/how-bnp-created-road-brexit
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/brexit-new-beginning-uk
https://www.britainfirst.org/tag/brexit/
http://www.englishdefenceleague.org.uk/the-remainers-project-fear-is-claiming-victims-across-england/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/24/european-far-right-hails-britains-brexit-vote-marine-le-pen
How can David Davies possibly say what the outcome of negotiations which haven't even started yet will be ?
Not quite as good a slogan to pop on the bus eh?
