[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Better than bickering about mandates and rules...she has a country to run!

Soooooooo. Back on topic.

Out! Another (there are many) reason was Brussels giving 100,000,000 Euro to Turkey to support a plant to make the Transit. Which directly precipitated the demise of the Southampton plant.

Workers in Southampton, paid taxes, some of which found their way to Brussels, to be handed over to a non EU country to Man-Up to take production of the very product the Southampton folk were producing.

What did the EU do for Southampton?

teamhurtmore - Member

Better than bickering about mandates and rules

I'm not sure if there has ever been a time when I've agreed with you more THM.

Yep, let's be honest about the Tory legacy and the shit state the country is in instead of bickering about mandates and rules.

So to recap :

Because right now, if you’re born poor, you will die on average nine years earlier than others. If you’re black, you’re treated more harshly by the criminal justice system than if you’re white. If you’re a white, working-class boy, you’re less likely than anybody else to go to university. If you’re at a state school, you’re less likely to reach the top professions than if you’re educated privately. If you’re a woman, you still earn less than a man. If you suffer from mental health problems, there’s too often not enough help to hand. If you’re young, you’ll find it harder than ever before to own your own home.

So when the EU shifts money to help develop a poorer economy and presumably keep people there you complain when immigrants turn up here.

And for how many of the past 15 years have the Tories been in power Ernie?

What is current happening to income inequality - lets say since the crisis? Or more recently to unemployment, employment, average earnings, tax thresholds etc?

[i]Nipper99 - Member
So when the EU shifts money to help develop a poorer economy and presumably keep people there you complain when immigrants turn up here. [/i]

No, I expect the faceless, autocratic, types in Brussels to sac-off a load of workers in Southampton, because it is Southampton!
And use their tax money/money borrowed by their government. To fund an operation that subsequently puts them out of a job.

That's a beautiful thing, don't you think?
Go ask the folk in Southampton how they feel about it.

Here is another opportunity for you comrade as this will rende ryou outraged....FFS dont look at what % of private schools kids get there you will be livid about entrenched self interest of the rich and wealthy and their offspring, that is the private education sector, to the detriment of the white working classes you so steadfastly champion

so explain why Corbyn (or Milne the real brains of the operation) are the answer to this issue?

Why were the EU picking on Southampton?? Did the EU force Ford out?

Blame Ford , not the EU .

pre-brexit jamba dismissed erasmus as being unaffected by an out vote?

ive signed, its been very important for uk scientific research

"So when the EU shifts money to help develop a poorer economy and presumably keep people"

So if we're outside the EU, they will subsidise a load of industries to stop us becoming a basket case and sneaking into mainland Europe.

Sounds like being a neighbour of the EU but not in the EU is a good call.

Forcing through an exit to maintain the value of democracy and "serve the interests of the whole country" on the basis of a ~50/50 advisory public vote that has left us with an unelected PM has a cruel double irony.

As I understand it the Southampton thing was an £80m [b]LOAN[/b] from the European Investment Bank to Ford, yes?

If so that's a rather different thing to Brussels [i]giving[/i] taxpayers money to Turkey.

Have just emailed my M.P to reflect the wishes of our borough (52.1 % in) and vote for a second referendum .

Thanks for signing the petition about Erasmus.

I've tried writing to our MP about the issues that affect our area - EU social funding which we'll lose, Horizon2020 funding and environmental protection via the European court which is currently hearing concerns about the mismanagement of a local grouse moor and SSSI which has an impact on flooding in our valley. That's my first three, I'm building up a few more of the next salvo. He's a shower though and thinks it's too difficult to actually research what the impacts are going to be and do something about them.

Hence also clicking on all the petitions I can find (Erasmus: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/136595) as I think parliament needs to be aware that we're aware of what we stand to lose.

Jamba - of course I've written to my MP, but a) I won't feel patronised by your suggesting it to me and b) given that even in a remain voting constituency he campaigned for leave and he basically follows the whip every time I have no expectation that he'll do anything. He also arranged his surgeries during the working day so he doesn't have to meet anyone who works for.a living. Tory by the way. Useless wazzock.

So far, about two weeks on he's ignored my letter.

So petitions it is Jamba. That and letters to the paper are all we have.

pre-brexit jamba dismissed erasmus as being unaffected by an out vote?

It's a seperate programme outside of the EU

IGM I'm a big supporter of it, suggested it to both my eldest daughters, one did it and the other did her MBA in Spain after she didn't get an Erasmus place during her undergrad. I wasn't being patronising just a comment on this link clicking approach to democracy/campaigning.

Why then would they say on their own website that they're not sure what the impact of Brexit would be? Jesus christ you're full of shit 🙂

If anyone else talked as much crap as Jambaliar they'd just be written off as a troll.

Rich because they are worried we will decide not to pay up and IMO there is a political view being expressed. There is some issue with Switzerland and they decided not to pay anymore or at least pit it on hold. Given we will be £10bn + a year better off and we as a country value education I don't see how we'd stop the programms. Remember we have had numerous Leave campaign figures say we will allow all EU workers to remain, we have had Alex Salmond say that should NOT be guaranteed.

@fourbanger 80% of stw where for remain so it's clear there is a bias on this site not reflected in broader society, in 4 years here I've been on the "winning side" of every major debate including supporting various foreign policy stances. I appreciate some people here don't like that. Thats just par for the course, that won't continue and I thought Remain would win as they had so many cards stacked in their favour, I said so a number of times.

Given we will be £10bn + a year better off

Only if there's no recession surely?

It's a seperate programme outside of the EU

Uh huh, so it is. oh wait, what's this?

The Erasmus Programme is an EU exchange student programme that has been in existence since the late 1980’s. Its purpose is to provide foreign exchange options for students from within the European Union and it involves many of the best universities and seats of learning on the continent.

http://www.erasmusprogramme.com/the_erasmus.php

So what now? Are you going to cry to the mods because I'm harrassing you with facts again? Oooh report me again, go on!

I remember my Aunt & Uncle used to take Foreign exchange students in about 44 years past. Unsure it was called Erasmus then.

Uni exchange grantway? Is that scheme available? Thing is Erasmus is, it will just have to be funded from that pot of cash we are spending 10 times over.

The problem with that £10b.

When we come to look for it, somehow it won't be there. There'll be new trade deal subscriptions to pay, or a recession, or the pursemasters will work out its been promised four times over.

Hope I'm wrong - but I suspect there will be some nominal sum payments made which won't total £10b or anything like. Anyone fancy a £1 bet on it - first taker only, happy to use PayPal gift.

I wasn't being patronising just a comment on this link clicking approach to democracy/campaigning.

Jamba - apology accepted. People have alway petitioned Westminster (go read A Man For All Seasons for example) the clicky thing is just a faster way of doing it. Do I like it? Not really, I'm 45 and would much prefer to face off against an MP and make it quite clear what them. But when he deliberately times his surgeries so he only sees retired people...

So what now? Are you going to cry to the mods because I'm harrassing you with facts again? Oooh report me again, go on!

Is that a squirrelking fact? Jamba has never reported a post to mods. Maybe lay off a bit then we wouldn't mod your posts.

in 4 years here I've been on the "winning side" of every major debate including supporting various foreign policy stances

Just because the right wing win elections or vote for Brexit doesnt mean you have won the debate. What an odd thing to say.

My mistake, must have been someone else. Checked the relevant thread and it turns out I was being gratuitously insulting. And why should anyone give him a free pass to talk pish? Seriously, he has had this jambyfact corrected at least twice before now by myself and thm, with quotes and links yet he still persists in lying.

And FWIW you know fine and well why I got a ban and it wasn't harassment.

..he has had this jambyfact corrected at least twice before now by myself and thm, with quotes and links..

To quote from that rather insightful [url= https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/12/how-technology-disrupted-the-truth ]article[/url] that kimbers linked to earlier:

Arron Banks, Ukip's largest donor and the main funder of the Leave.EU campaign, told the Guardian that his side knew all along that facts would not win the day. "It was taking an American-style media approach," said Banks. "What they said early on was [b]'Facts don't work'[/b], and that's it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn't work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It's the Trump success."

I think Jam is going to make a [s]good[/s] suitable Tory politician some day.

I wouldn't last 5 minutes, too opinionated. Its a horrible dirty businesses Politics and one that doesn't appeal at all.

@Graham that same logic applies to sales, you don't sell stuff by listing the spec.

Depends who you are selling to I suppose.
Personally the specs are the first thing I click on when buying something, so perhaps I am more fact-oriented than some.

Seriously, he has had this jambyfact corrected at least twice before now by myself and thm, with quotes and links yet he still persists in lying.

I must have posted a dozen times just read every post with [IMO] ... [/IMO] thats what I do. Simple. As for link tennis we can all find links to support our views.

@molgrips £10bn indeed subject to many variables and could easily be more

Where are you getting the £10bn a year better off figure from jamba? I missed that one.

@molgrips £10bn indeed subject to many variables and could easily be more

And could just as easily not exist at all. So best not go on about it eh?

What they said early on was 'Facts don't work', and that's it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn't work. You have got to connect with people emotionally

But he is right, one of the biggest problems of the Remain campaign was it was very dry, to get through to people you need to paint pictures which illustrate the facts.

...or paint buses that abuse them

"winning side"

You reckon that the good folks of rotherham are going to end up on the 'winning side' in the long run

Don't confuse ignorance with winning...

I must have posted a dozen times just read every post with [IMO] ... [/IMO] thats what I do.

Say that as much as you like, in no way does it justify the relentless postings of unsubstantiated nonsense presented as fact, or arguing that black is white and ignoring the facts of the matter. You might even have a good point under all that gibberish but no-one can tell because you're the boy that cried wolf.

And could just as easily not exist at all. So best not go on about it eh?

As for link tennis we can all find links to support our views.

just read every post with [IMO] ... [/IMO] thats what I do

Not all opinions are created equal though. Everyone can express their opinion but to expect every opinion to be treated with equal value is just plain stupid/journalism. If an opinion is laughable, expect it to be mocked. If an opinion is backed by facts and shows a degree of thought it can expect at least some acceptance, even if others disagree with the sentiment.

@Graham that same logic applies to sales, you don't sell stuff by listing the spec.

I think that this goes to the heart of the matter. Neither side should have been selling anything. They should have been presenting the spec.

@Graham that same logic applies to sales, you don't sell stuff by listing the spec.

I must have posted a dozen times just read every post with [IMO

Its not its just being wrong

The world is flat is not an opinion its just wrong.

Erasmus is outside the EU is not an opinion its just wrong and a demonstration of the, supreme, breadth of your, wilful, ignorance.