I think you'll find China are rising above that. We're going to be the next sweat shop sewing t shirts for Primark.
Of course we'll need immigrant labour 'cos the Brits won't want to do that sort of work.
great artilcle about brexit (jamba)facts here
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/12/how-technology-disrupted-the-truth
I liked the bit about him correcting the Guardian.
One is a piece written by a jounalist and the other is an opinion from an asset manager with 30 years of experience
If EU even start playing games with Uni project funding we can play hardball too.
@kimbers I am very much in favour of strong journalistic critique, thats why I support Hacked Off and the second part of Levinson.
The referendum was lost for Remain as there is no positive case for the EU, no one really believes in it.
nice link kimbers - the oakeshott admission and advice (use your judgement and then dont believe a word she says 😉 )is quite telling.
posttruthpolitics is as fascinating as it is appalling - each time, you think you have reached a nadir, but it keeps getting worse
as there is no positive case for the EU, no one really believes in it.
I do so another Jambafact shot to pieces
no one really believes in it.
just imagining away the 16 million remainers then
as there is no positive case for the EU, no one really believes in it.
Most of the people here do, most of us see it as much better than the land of no ****ing idea that is a million miles from the promises of freedom and 350 million a week hot air spun dried BS spouted by leave.
@Pigface well you should have been out campaigning more forcefully. The most positive Remainers I heard said "it needs reforming" when we all know the reform in only going to be closer union.
@mike you are forgetting the whole rest of the world gets by just fine without being in the only trading block with a parliament, a law making commission, a defunct currency and freedom of movement
just imagining away the 16 million remainers then
I think you'll find very few of them voted Remain as they believe in the European [b]Union[/b]
[u][b]Getting By Fine[/b][/u]
the new making Britain Great again.... it's really about how far back the UK wants to go to achieve being fine. How much you want to give away and what will be left. I don't see many leaver being happy with what is delivered bears very little resemblance to what was promised.
I think what you have to accept Jamba is that other people don't see the world like you don't share the view that we do.
When the UK settles for paying to trade, accepting free movement and no say in the terms of dealing with the largest economy in the world there will be some very unhappy and unemployed people.
when we all know the reform in only going to be closer union
Stop bullshitting, you can't say that with any accuracy what ever.
Jamba - I'm yet to hear a positive case for leaving. Lots of ra-ra speeches and vague promises that turned into "we never actually said that" - but no positive case.
And the nastiness that arose during the debate (from ugly words to the shooting of a remain MP) appears to be continuing. Like it or not leave validated abuse of those who look / sound a big foreign and those who stand up for those who look / sound a bit foreign.
On the flip side I could and can think of many positives for remaining - read some of my previous posts for details.
I think you'll find very few of them voted Remain as they believe in the European Union
I don't think you'll find that at all.
What's with all this "playing hardball" business? These are our friends and neighbours. The war ended 70 years ago.
Mon Amis, discerning voters were able to understand that we had a unique relationship with the EU which included exemption from greater Union and from other specific elements eg Euro, Schengen etc.
Of course, this was muddled by the deliberate attempts of the BSer leadership and campaigners. Recall as an example the notion that were were on the hook for Greece etc. Total gobbledygook but great tactics in the world of post truth politics
#fakecontrol
Zippi, it takes a certainly level of Emotional IQ to move from "them and us" to "us." Something that is/was beyond the BS campaign. But remember we have control now, not them, just us.....Marvelllous isn't it?
Another Brexit backtrack. Not sure how basic literacy and numeracy is going to build the metro and the heads of the valleys road improvements or pay for the electrification of the railways - lying twunts.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-36776268
Getting a bit confused about which thread to be posting on now 😆
On the BBC, the second referendum idea is to be debated on September 5th in House of Commons. Does this in any way preclude May from triggering article 50 in a fortnight as sugested by Ken Clark?
Another Brexit backtrack. Not sure how basic literacy and numeracy is going to build the metro and the heads of the valleys road improvements or pay for the electrification of the railways - lying twunts.
Can someone explain to me what Alun Cairns means when he says:
[i]"Why are [b]white[/b] working class people less likely than their peers to go on to university?"[/i]
That's an odd adjective to casually throw in there 😯
That's an odd adjective to casually throw in there
Because statistically white working class males are least likely to go to university.
It does seem odd as wales has the lowest non-white ethnicity in the UK
its like he wants to bring race into it, just beacuse
Is this 2nd referendum debate not a huge development?
No one else seems as excited as me
its like he wants to bring race into it, just beacuse
He is bringing in race because there is a clear statistical difference between the outcomes for different races, if you are not allowed to draw attention to these issues - what hope is there of addressing them?
Hey can you all sign this please? It's to maintain the Erasmus programme which has been really important in sharing ideas, getting our students out learning and using languages and sharing ideas - as well as bringing European students here. So we should demand that one way or another it survives the craziness: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/136595
Zippy - no not huge on its own (petitions are only advisory and governments can ignore them - as are the debates that flow from them - where have I heard that before) but it's all about ratcheting up the pressure on MPs and government, because contrary to popular belief, that's how our democracy works.
Letting politicians know that the 48 (who were generally the more skilled, educated, affluent and younger part of the population which presents a Western European government such as ours with a problem) aren't going away is vital.
Time to write to your local MP, visit them, make it clear where you stand and what you want them to say on your behalf. They don't have to listen, but if they hear it from enough constituents..,
Clover - 25 years ago I benefited from Erasmus. So I'm off to click your link now.
Because statistically white working class males are least likely to go to university.
Fair enough, just seemed an odd comment. Usually politicians are a bit more cautious when discussing race issues that could very easily be misinterpreted!
mefty - Member
He is bringing in race because there is a clear statistical difference between the outcomes for different races, if you are not allowed to draw attention to these issues - what hope is there of addressing them?
indeed, but equally he should be asking why bangladeshi, ****stani and carribian ethnicities perform worse than white kids
Usually politicians are a bit more cautious when discussing race issues that could very easily be misinterpreted!
not being paying much attenion to the Brexit campaign then ? 😉
What do you make of this statement, how and what will be affected in your area?
https://www.dgwgo.com/dumfries-galloway-news/dg-council-leader-brexit/
How will the money "saved" be distributed?
Looks like Spain & Portugal have incurred the wrath of Brussels 👿
Graham, what is wrong with someone sticking up for white working class youngsters?
igm - Member
Clover - 25 years ago I benefited from Erasmus. So I'm off to click your link now.
My wife also benefitted from the Erasmus programme so I've also completed it and forwarded it to her to do likewise.
indeed, but equally he should be asking why bangladeshi, ****stani and carribian ethnicities perform worse than white kids
Did you actually read that report - it shows the slowest rate of improvement is in the white population.
Graham, what is wrong with someone sticking up for white working class youngsters?
Nothing at all.
Nothing is wrong with it THM but I cannot be alone in being tired of the way you Right wingers steadfastly champion the rights of the WHITE working classes
Here is another opportunity for you comrade as this will rende ryou outraged....FFS dont look at what % of private schools kids get there you will be livid about entrenched self interest of the rich and wealthy and their offspring, that is the private education sector, to the detriment of the white working classes you so steadfastly champion 😉
less than 0.5% of state school students on free school meals gained a place at Oxbridge in 2013/14, and only 5% of those students gained a place at a Russell Group University.
FWIW there is also a gender gap as well with females more likely to attend
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/01/06/poor-boys-attend-university_n_8921854.html
Post truth politics indeed eh
FFS dont look at what % of private schools kids get there you will be livid about entrenched self interest of the rich and wealthy and their offspring, that is the private education sector, to the detriment of the white working classes you so steadfastly champion
Theresa May yesterday
It is about that vision that I want to talk to you today. Because if we’re going to govern in the interests of the whole country, we cannot become defined exclusively by the process of our withdrawal from the EU. That is an important job and we’re going to get it done. But we also need a Government that will deliver serious social reform – and make ours a country that truly works for everyone.Because right now, if you’re born poor, you will die on average nine years earlier than others. If you’re black, you’re treated more harshly by the criminal justice system than if you’re white. If you’re a white, working-class boy, you’re less likely than anybody else to go to university. If you’re at a state school, you’re less likely to reach the top professions than if you’re educated privately. If you’re a woman, you still earn less than a man. If you suffer from mental health problems, there’s too often not enough help to hand. If you’re young, you’ll find it harder than ever before to own your own home.
Indeed nothing typifies tories that the way the endlessly struggle for the plight of poor folk. I am sure she will continue Daves tireless efforts in [s]demonising the poor and making the rich richer[/s] working for all the people.
Its at the very core of their ethos and not some empty shit they say at election time.
I am not sure why she said any of that tbh as its not like she will even try to deliver on that let alone make it her ethos
Ps did she mention what she thought of human rights seeing as you like to protect the most vulnerable
Pure politics and its theatre.
Honestly do you think she will actually redress any of that?
Do you even think she will actually try?
Genuine question as you are to the right of me but honestly do you really expect anything on "social justice" beyond lip service at election time?
She has been doing some of it for years, hence the Voice described her
as fast becoming someone who the black and minority community can do business with
I hope she appreciates your loyalty; I was surprised you thought it was anything other than lip service.
Your vision is more blue tinged than I thought[EDIT: reads like a dig but is not meant to be one].
A Tory delivering on social justice is as likely as Corbyn liberalising the banking sector. Lets discuss her massive social reform programme in 2020
As for a second referendum, the British government sent me a short e-mail to say it won't be happening. And May is being presented as eurosceptic by French TV.
Edukator May is eurosceptic, I was a little surprised she campaigned for Remain at all. The fact she is so has allowed her to gain support from many Leave MPs andarty supporters. Her campaign manager Chris Grayling was a very prominent Leave campaigner.
igm please lets not try and run our country via "petitons". I am a very big supporter of Erasmus, I think it costs about £25-40m pa to be part of it and it has not much to do with the EU. I have little doubt it will be continued. May I suggest you write to your MP, thats more effective than link clicking.
igm please lets not try and run our country via "petitons"
For once we agree. Referendums based on misinformation are a much better way.
I'll be very surprised (pleasantly) if Britain pays for Erasmus given how much the Swiss pay in for their much smaller student population.
I don't have an MP to write to as there is no constituency for non-resident British passport holders.
igm please lets not try and run our country via "petitons"
Are you suggesting it is a bad idea to listen to the electorate Jamba? 😆
May I suggest you write to your MP, thats more effective than link clicking.
Is it? In my experience petitions trigger a parliamentary debate but a letter to my MP triggers a condescending reply.
Both usually result in complete inaction of course, but one is definitely more transparent and public than the other.
i will sign, like Jamba, one of my kids has been a beneficiary
Theresa May yesterdayBecause right now, if you’re born poor, you will die on average nine years earlier than others. If you’re black, you’re treated more harshly by the criminal justice system than if you’re white. If you’re a white, working-class boy, you’re less likely than anybody else to go to university. If you’re at a state school, you’re less likely to reach the top professions than if you’re educated privately. If you’re a woman, you still earn less than a man. If you suffer from mental health problems, there’s too often not enough help to hand. If you’re young, you’ll find it harder than ever before to own your own home.
Tory governments, eh?
Well at least she's honest.
I'll give her that.
