@GRAHAMS 180K peak immigration, at the same time unemployment was falling. As a comparison Oz issued over 200k working holiday visa's last year with 1/3 of the population.
There are reasonable legitimate non-racist concerns about immigration.
As before - reasonable to have concerns, racist to elevate those concerns to headline level.
As a comparison Oz issued over 200k working holiday visa's last year with 1/3 of the population.
But... but... are you suggesting that an Australian Style Points System wasn't/isn't a magic bullet that will mean that 'nice' foreign people can move here to contribute, while brown people/ones that are the wrong religion/ and Turks/rapists can all **** off back to where they came from?
Next you'll be telling me that the Leave campaign were fully aware of this, but carried on parrotting it anyway, offering ludicrously simple solutions to complex problems, having built the 'immigration problem' up to mean the end of civilisation as we know it?
@GRAHAMS 180K peak immigration, at the same time unemployment was falling. As a comparison Oz issued over 200k working holiday visa's last year with 1/3 of the population.
Yep, didn't mean to imply I agreed with those concerns, just trying to illustrate that people can be concerned about immigration without being racist.
Apparently Leadsom's CV might not be entirely accurate - who'd have thought a leaver might be a bit of a fibber?
I'm gob-smacked.
Not to defend the little Englanders, but the Aus working holiday visa thing is a bit of a red herring. They are only valid for a year (I think). Japan also gets probably 250,000 immigrants a year too, but almost all of them get kicked out after 3 years at most, the total immigrant population is stable at around 1 mill (plus 1 mill 3rd-gen Koreans, but that's another story entirely). Short-term visa holders are not immigrants, they are visitors.
Whereas 300,000 EU immigrants per year are potentially staying as long as they want.
if increased immigration means our population grows faster than before then how will our already stretched public services cope with the extra demand at a time when their budgets are being squeezed
Well then don't squeeze the damn budgets.
If the people who come generate wealth then the taxation pays for the public services.
By moaning about strain on public services you seem to be implicitly assuming that they won't be contributing in proportion. Not all immigrants are benefit scroungers, as we have already established. In fact - by arriving at working age and starting work straight away it would be better for the economy than people being born here.
Whereas 300,000 EU immigrants per year
184,000 a year, according to Migration Watch UK. (270,000 arriving and 85,000 leaving).
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics
Indeed and I agree that most of the concern over immigration seems to be aimed at the Muslim population, despite the fact that has nothing to do with the EU and many (or most by now?) of the Muslim population are British born anyway.
Gilliam Duffy was complaining about eastern European migration, she lives in Rochdale which has a high Asian population, deep social divides based on ethnic origin and the grooming Scandal at its worst at the time
She was the canary in the mine, and should have been heeded by labour who dominate the local political establishment
But, no need to let facts get in the way of a political campaign eh?
I voted remain, but the "bigoted woman" commentary about leave voters isn't going to tackle the issues, rather it will just increase division and us and them politics
indeed it will but they started the us and them and tbh my desire to appeal to racists and pander to their ill educated biases is extremely low indeed.
We will remain divided on this issue as will remain divided from those who oppose equal rights and those who opposed same sex marriage
There are reasonable legitimate non-racist concerns about immigration.
In theory perhaps. But in practice your two examples do not hold up to scrutiny despite their widespread usage. Hence one is left to the alternative explanation.
Plus we have heard on here that the main problem with the latest EU entrants is that they are poorer. So we have a combination of xenophobia and discrimination against those less well off than us. Neither make me proud to be British at the moment
Sorry, yeah I was thinking of the total not just EU (actually more like 350k IIRC). Same principle though.
Many of the towns and villages with the least amount of exposure to actual immigrants were the ones that voted remain and have higher levels of racism - as they think that their quaint little English villages are going to be descended on by a horde of spear chucking brown people.Those towns and cities where the local whites have been more exposed to brown people tend to be less afraid of them.
That phenomena has also be proven time and time again in the psychology world.
"Legitimate concern" is just a euphemism for "I hate n******"
Hmm, its always dangerous to generalise, but perhaps you could explain why Maidenhead and Windsor (77% White British) voted to remain, while Slough (35% White British) voted to leave?
I found another 700k a year who will be a drain on society for the next 20 years and can also stay as long as they want.
- ONSThere were 695,233 live births in England and Wales in 2014
Plus some in Scotland and Ireland.
As the Asian taxi driver said in the Guardian piece he voted leave as there where too many immigrants. He (or his ancestors) had to come here with a visa. They (generalisation) don't see why their relatives have a hard time getting a visa whilst any old bod from the EU can just turn up. I can see why Slough voted leave.
Sorry, yeah I was thinking of the total not just EU (actually more like 350k IIRC). Same principle though.
Yeah from the same figures Total Net Immigration was 333k for 2015.
But the majority of that (188k) was non-EU, so presumably unaffected by us leaving the EU and "taking our borders back".
Though the 123k Brits emigrating each year probably will be hit.
"There are reasonable legitimate non-racist concerns about immigration."
No there aren't. Nobody is entitled to something over someone else, simply by accident of birth/nationality. **** borders. They were invented to divide and rule people.
If it weren't for immigration, Britain would be inhabited by one bloke chewing a turnip.
Jamba - you bring up an interesting point. Non-EU citizens who have been in Britain for a long time will have tended to get citizenship so therefore got to vote. However an EU citizen in a similar situation would probably not have because they didn't need to, and therefore got no vote. So did the voting rules discriminate against the EU long term residents?
I think perhaps they did.
Question from Ninfan:
Slough (35% White British) voted to leave?
Answer from Jamba:
As the Asian taxi driver said in the Guardian piece he voted leave as there where too many immigrants.
Racism isn't restricted to white folks.
Actually jambas post DOES point to an actual point that DOES withstand scrutiny ie, immigration has been proven to have a negative impact on the wages of previous immigrants. Hence past immigrants often resent new ones.
Dr J - though that argument undermines Toms point that:
Many of the towns and villages with the least amount of exposure to actual immigrants were the ones that voted remain and have higher levels of racism - as they think that their quaint little English villages are going to be descended on by a horde of spear chucking brown people.Those towns and cities where the local whites have been more exposed to brown people tend to be less afraid of them.
Actually jambas post DOES point to an actual point that DOES withstand scrutiny ie, immigration has been proven to have a negative impact on the wages of previous immigrants. Hence past immigrants often resent new ones.
Could be. Or could be that dark brown people get swept up in the general negative sentiments about slightly brown people.
Dr J - though that argument undermines Toms point that:
Strictly speaking not, as Tom did not claim that the effect he describes is universal. I would guess there are many factors in play, but the net results ain't pretty.
Oh the irony, some of you are going to accuse me of being horrifically racist for saying this - but predominantly Muslim areas often voted leave because poorer white catholics from southern Europe and Eastern Europeans quite often have to move into "their" areas - due to the lower cost of housing.
Which again, kind of backs my point that brexit was about tribalism and racism.
It's all a little bit "Walking Dead" isn't it? Anyway, Britain has managed to utterly cement my misanthropy.
I hope that I live to see the day when western civilisation finally eats itself in a repeat of the 20th century, just so that I can tell my friends - "I told you so."
No there aren't. Nobody is entitled to something over someone else, simply by accident of birth/nationality. **** borders.
Blimey....thats a viewpoint Ive not heard before! 😯
Isn't that how wars start?
Nobody is entitled to something over someone else, simply by accident of birth/nationality
I disagree. When I tried to get a game of football with the Brazil national squad, they told me to **** off.
Apparently you need to be a "Brazilian" 🙁
No, wars usually started because of disputes between the elites of a country. Borders used to suit them as it defined the lands that they could appropriate wealth from - they don't have to do that these days.
My grandfather was a 2nd generation Hungarian (likely Jew but hid it well) who fought the Nazis. One grandmother is half Icelandic half Spanish Roma, none of them had proper papers - if you had the means, emigrating was actually easier back then. You forged a name, papers and pretended that you were British.
I'm the grandchild of illegal pikies and Jews who fought their own country. 😀
"Apparently you need to be a "Brazilian"
So get a razor out then. 🙄
Some sense from Dan the Man
That'll be a first then.
However the civil service used to have an acronym for that sort of thing - LOWSOD, long on words, short on deliverables.
Or in other words, lovely rhetoric, but what did it actually say?
Apart perhaps from, please don't be too nasty to us, we love you really.
Well I suppose he speaks French quite well.
Regarding the 245-2 vote on EU nationals:
[quote=binners ]Probably my MP was one of them. He's a horrible nasty, bigoted, rabidly anti-EU, racist, homophobic Tory ****!!!
I don't think this has been done - I've only skimmed the thread today. The division information is available - if he's a Tory he didn't vote against, he probably abstained like most of them. 5 voted for the motion:
Richard Fuller Zac Goldsmith Philip Hollobone Boris Johnson Tania Mathias
The two who voted against were both Labour MPs:
Holly Lynch Halifax
Conor McGinn St Helens North
- not sure what significance there is in those constituencies
As previously noted, Carswell voted for the motion
Tim Farron and Nick Clegg were both absent - in fact half the Lib Dems were 😉
Oh and Alex Salmond either abstained or wasn't there (it doesn't seem possible to tell the difference - effectively they're the same thing)
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2016-07-06&number=36&display=allpossible
This is entirely coincidental you understand? [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36746763 ]Nothing to see here, move along...[/url]
Hannan talking sense? I thought he'd finally been exposed for the fraud he is
.
Here's some actual sense
Did Daniel Hannah ever say we would never sign up to freedom of movement ? I recall him being a stronger speaker on law making and other constitutional issues, I personally would rather have no trade deal at all than one wifh freedom of movement and an EU budget contribution but within Leave there are clearly other views.
Most of my constituents will accept a measure of legal immigration, provided they feel that we have some rough control over who arrives and in what numbers. Outside the EU, we could have a skills-based immigration policy that does not discriminate against Commonwealth nationals, and makes space for asylum seekers. Both left and right could live with it. But not until we recover the right to decide for ourselves who can enter Britain.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/how-many-refugees-uk-take-migrant-crisis-europe-yvette-cooper
For pity's sake, we must shut the borders: DANIEL HANNAN says the only way to control who comes here is to leave the EU
http://www.****/debate/article-3219016/For-pity-s-sake-shut-borders.html
tbh it was when the tea party/American healthcare industry paid him to go to america and slag off the NHS, in their attempts to stop Obamacare that he was exposed as a complete idiot, his comments about prostate cancer UK vs US were laughable
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Loathsome loves Alec
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/andrea-leadsom-tea-party?CMP=fb_gu
Vive la France! Let's do this 😀
Bloody foreigners charging us more for their currency eh? Cheeky blighters. This is why we should be glad we are leaving Europe. Or something....
🙄
Is that the DM trying to make out, its not the Leave vote that has tanked the pound??
So after Cameron was booed at Wimbledon, is he set to become as unpopular as Tony Blair, when/if recession really bites?
"Taking advantage of the public's lack of financial knowledge"
Nasty money changers, not like when those nice Brexiters took advantage of the public's lack of knowledge. No, no, no.
I'm OK with this - I'm treating it as the next generation of reality TV.
A kind of reality satire.
Actually that's not a bad description of what's happening.
The Daily mail standard line of its everyone else's fault.
Original article is [url= http://www.****/news/article-3681503/Fury-holiday-money-sharks-Exchange-rate-rip-offs-greedy-currency-firms-cash-falling-pound.html ]here[/url] if you [i]really[/i] want to read it for a laugh.
It's fairly desperate - they seem to admit that it [i]might[/i] have something to do with Brexit, but mostly they imply it's those nasty rip-off exchanges profiteering from some kind of unavoidable natural disaster. 🙄
