I think the bullying of Jamba needs to stop.. it is spreading and it all looks a bit 'lord of the flies'
I think there's a valid point there. And I did say in my response to the mod's warning "Jambalaya's one redeeming quality is that he takes robust criticism extremely imo - he takes on the chin without whingeing".
Actually he has another one imo, he's also got a sense of humour.
However if Nigel Farage's anti-foreigner anti-Muslim tendencies can be challenged on here then I can't see why Jambalaya should get a particularly easy ride when he regurgitates them.
EDIT : "Till then, like Farage, I will challenge his views" Snap!
FTSE closes above pre-Brexit level, French, German and Spanish Mkts all still down. Now in fairness FTSE 250 is still lower but I expect this to be corrected. As I said Brexit is worse for them than us
Indeed, and all logical fallacies including Ad Homs are not sticking to the facts which is why people need to stop using them.
That's my point - mostly they do avoid personal attacks, but when one member just ignores convention then there's no point in arguing seriously and it becomes a circus.
I'd listen to his arguments if they were well constructed and backed up.
I though you also said yesterday that your predictions were for the medium and long term I did not realise that meant later this week .
We are in the eye of the storm basically
Analysts said the sharp recovery in the FTSE 100 was unexpected.
"It is safe to say that, of all the post Brexit outcomes discussed across the City over the past few months, 'buying frenzy' was not one that was viewed as very likely," said Chris Beauchamp, senior market analyst at spread betting firm IG.
"The plethora of bargains on offer, plus a welcome period of calm in the UK/EU relationship has provided the opportunity for markets to recover in impressive fashion," he added.
However Joe Rundle, head of trading at ETX Capital, warned reality was likely to bite soon.
"What we're seeing in the FTSE is hope in Britain being able to ride it out by remaining part of the single market. This looks like wishful thinking."
The FTSE 250 - which contains more UK-focused companies - closed 3.2% higher on Wednesday, but still remains more than 7% below its pre-Brexit level.
Case in point:
FTSE closes above pre-Brexit level, French, German and Spanish Mkts all still down. Now in fairness FTSE 250 is still lower but I expect this to be corrected. As I said Brexit is worse for them than us
Just yesterday he was telling us that short term figures don't prove anything. Today he says the opposite. This is why he is not taken seriously.
The mods are getting a lot of reports from all sides on this thread accusing each other of everything from trolling to out right bullying. This is the only warning I'm going to give before the ban stick comes in and brings it to an end.
The issues around the referendum are important and deserve to be debated. But if you resort to personal attacks then you are going to have your account suspended. Tale a breath, read your response through twice before you hit post.
Enough naval gazing for me...exits to do better things
well said mark
To make it clear I am only trying to challenge his arguments - I have no problem with him as a person, specifically because he is always calm and polite and I respect that.
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Enough naval gazing for me...exits to do better things
Junkyard earlier.
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As a casual observer please don't stop this thread, it's been excellent for some analysis of what's going on and views from a wider range of angles can be found in any other single place.
If a serious internet discussion on any topic is to have any value there must be some sort of gentlemans' agreement that people will as far as possible stick to the facts, and be ready to support their views with some sort of references to verifiable sources.
But facts are exactly what have been in short supply throughout this whole sorry exercise.
DC it has been suggested played a blinder by immediately announcing his resignation and handing the shit sandwich to his successor. There is certainly a "quote" that has been doing the rounds on facebook, and even analysed by new channels in agreement, and been posted here several times.
But actually I am beginning to think quite the opposite (and I am talking about post result here not the stupidity of holding the referendum in the first place). His statements have set out limited choices, these are not just for his successor to resolve but for the country.
He could have resigned with a very different message. He could have said that the result was close, that it was not an overwhelming victory, that the result had to taken very seriously but that his successor and the house of commons had to decide what path to take. He should not have stated that this was a definite mandate to activate clause 50, even if he believes it was he did not need to start the clock ticking now. There could have been time to plan a course of action.
IMO he has acted to spite his successor and the leave campaign, and weakened the countries position by doing so.
But actually I am beginning to think quite the opposite (and I am talking about post result here not the stupidity of holding the referendum in the first place). His statements have set out limited choices, these are not just for his successor to resolve but for the country.He could have resigned with a very different message. He could have said that the result was close, that it was not an overwhelming victory, that the result had to taken very seriously but that his successor and the house of commons had to decide what path to take. He should not have stated that this was a definite mandate to activate clause 50, even if he believes it was he did not need to start the clock ticking now. There could have been time to plan a course of action.
IMO he has acted to spite his successor and the leave campaign, and weakened the countries position by doing so.
I suspect the same myself - it does appear to be deliberately making life harder for the bloke who has to back-pedal out of this fix.
However, I do wonder if the real intention was to make it *really* look like we're leaving to spook the EU into giving us some kind of major concession in future.
Or does he just want to look like a 'good' loser and fully accept the loss?
I don't think he was just knackered and speaking of the cuff because he subsequently made similar comments, including yesterday.
I will deffo be reading any books Cameron or Corbyn write to get the inside story on the freaky events of this last week.
It just one big game for the vile people.
of course . he has been betrayed by some of his closest allies and friends .
Yep I saw that earlier, while t6hey hide, they are arguing over who gets the biggest pieces of the pie.
of course . he has been betrayed by some of his closest allies and friends
That isn't the country's fault.
And as this whole **** fest continues, Corbyn who seems to be getting the most criticism is the only one who is not serving himself.
of course . he has been betrayed by some of his closest allies and friends .
I can't shake the feeling that we're all just being played by the Tories and Murdoch.
Boris's pitch, all along, has been to take us and the EU to the brink because he believes he can extract greater concessions on freedom of movement than Dave. Unfortunately I subscribe to the view that the EU is not bluffing (as has been unequivocally stated more than once). So, the only options for our top negotiator (please not Boris) is to either accept freedom of movement or pull us out entirely and go through the whole trade renegotiation in two years (widely regarded as impossible). Or, as John Kerry suggested, backtrack a bit...
He should not have stated that this was a definite mandate to activate clause 5
I am surprised how many people or organisations keep saying things like "decisive victory"... was it, really? Why is there no discussion as to exactly how decisive it is? 48/52 is hardly overwhelming...
Pull us out entirely...both sides lose some, one thing for sure Great Britain would recover quicker...if only people can chill out than panic. Couple of years from now we will be in stronger position should EU still exist.
Couple of years from now we will be in stronger position should EU still exist.
Why?
Couple of years from now we will be in stronger position should EU still exist.
You can't possibly know that. You can guess, but you can not say this with any kind of certainty. It's as baseless as the Brexit campaign claims.
Hey, i once predicted that it is not the 29er that would wipe out 26 off the market but the 650b.. and I was laugh at..whose laughing now?
The bicycle manufacturer's
Some interesting stuff here (a bit after the event) but the BRIEFING PAPER Number 07212, 3 June 2015 is quite clear as to the type of referendum this was, we just need some politicians with some spine ...... we are f***ed.
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7212#fullreport
And as this whole **** fest continues, Corbyn who seems to be getting the most criticism is the only one who is not serving himself.
No really!! 😀
CMD has played a v bad hand reasonably well. Quite right to let the BSers take responsibility for invoking A50 and dealing with the aftermath. In the meantime, he has bitten his lip (immigration quip at the EU aside) and declined to play the tempting "told you so" card. He is exiting in failure but at least with dignity and as one of the few statesmen out there.
He still should have avoided panicking with either Scotland or UKIP. Both misjudgements that led to his demise.
Everyone loses here - we are lucky to be out of the Euro and have much more policy and labour market flexibility. Our Achilles heel remains the lack of deleveraging, which makes us very vulnerable to a normalisation of interest rates. Managing the positive impact of a weaker £ on exports versus the negative impact via inflation will take some skill.
[url= http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/06/29/brexit-version-downfall-take-us-inside-boris-johnsons-bunker/ ]Inside the BorisBunker NSFW[/url]
As I have said on the other thread, there is no plan Boris and his boys did not think for one minute they would win, the reason Boris is not out front giving us a plan is because he doesn't have one and is currently doing a "fag packet" calculation without the aid of Mark Carney The Tresuary or anyone else with a Scooby - it's so *ing obvious why do you think Gove and IDS have literally disappeared they are all hoping the Corbyn fiasco will keep them out of trouble for a while.
I will support a reasonable plan to get us out of this shit even if it means voting for Boris and his * wit sidekicks provided a. They support my business and b. Cut massive lumps of money out of the pension and benefits bill to get us going - we are too fat and slow to be outside the pack.
What truly astounds me on this forum from those who supported this is any common sense approach to actually solving this problem - la la la ain't gonna fix this. Hard focused zero reward graft for the next ten years (oh just done that) is what is required, we need to sell our limited goods and services as hard as we can to anyone who will buy it (oh and chuck your moral ethical high ground out the window it's sales prevention)
Corbyn who seems to be getting the most criticism is the only one who is not serving himself.
And that's the tragedy. The best man is the worst candidate.
Do we post internet links to back up our views on headset angles, wheel sizes or tyre choices ? I for one don't form my views based on what I read on the internet somewhere. What I like about the internet is I can now listen to whole speeches and make my own mknd up rather than a joirnalists view or summary.
I've said numerous times just read every post of mine as it started with In My Opinion
Excise the slight diversion but in response to this
How sweet - Jamba hurls around accusations of anti-Semitism left right and centre but gets all delicate when on the receiving end.
DrJ I tried to explain my logic on that thread but decided to let it lie as the temperature got so elevated. As a matter of fact I emailed (tried to anyway as the address was a bit of a guess) Northwind to apologise to him. As an aside its accepted (I now know) that the use of the term Zionist in a derogatory manner is regarded as anti-semitic even if the term is addressed to a non-Jew as it has been to me on numerous occasions here.
For anybody thinking Brexit won't happen (or will be delayed for a long time) put your money where your mouth is, you can get 8/1 - which seems incredibly generous odds.
http://www.stanjames.com/UK/802/betting#bo-navigation=175378.2&action=market-group-list
Crispin Blunt was just on Newsnight, representing Team Boris. I've never heard such mealy-mouthed, back-pedalling waffle in my life! Basically refusing to deny or confirm that under a Boris premiership, immigration wouldn't go up instead of down
I think we all know the real answer to that then. There is going to be a lot of pissed off racists when this all pans out!
Crispin, bless his hopelessly dim skull, was on five live yesterday and actually said that the two words you think of when referring to Boris are 'honesty' and 'integrity'
Of course they are crispin. They're the two words we all immediately when we think of the mop haired buffoon. Definitely not 'self' and 'serving', or '*ing' and '*!'
jambalaya - Member
What I like about the internet is I can now listen to whole speeches and make my own mknd up rather than a joirnalists view or summary
What I like about the internet is that I can very quickly fact check things in speeches rather than taking them as gospel.
French opinion poll - 67% of people think "government by the EU" is bad. The notion that eurosceptism is a UK phenominan is mistaken.
Also I think 52/48 is a close but clear result. I believe with equal funding and equal access to the civil service (so we could actually get more detailed analysis or facts if you like) Leave would have won by a far larger margin.
Do we post internet links to back up our views on headset angles, wheel sizes or tyre choices
Yes we do use facts when discussing a wide array of subjects on here. Providing evidence is an entirely accepted practice in all areas of knowledge and debate. Generally folk go for evidence that supports their view.
use of the term Zionist in a derogatory manner is regarded as anti-semitic
Its really not [and the EU authority you cited did not prove what you claimed ,oh the irony]its completely disputed as it was on that thread as it will be now you have brought it up again despite leaving it.
Its is a weak argument used by folk who wish to stop rightful criticism of Israel by erroneously suggesting everyone who criticises it is a Jew hating racist.
You also said that if a Jew said it was racism then it was which was also disregarded
I am scottish if i say you are a racist towards me it is not magically true just because i said it. i actually need to prove it.
I am not sure what you struggled with in Northwinds e-mail as basically he has written his e-mail address down you could copy it and paste it- I wont cppy it here as i think that would be unfair but its very clearly in his profile assuming you understand what @ means
And that's the tragedy. The best man is the worst candidate
Is he, though? Or is that just what Blairite labour say?
leave would have won by a far larger margin
If they hadn't had such a passing, casual, dismissive acquaintance with the truth, they wouldn't
But hey... we're in post-truth times now, aren't we?
For anybody thinking Brexit won't happen (or will be delayed for a long time) put your money where your mouth is, you can get 8/1 - which seems incredibly generous odds.
That's for the A50 trigger being anything after 2017 - that's a long time to wait for your money!
Basically refusing to deny or confirm that under a Boris premiership, immigration wouldn't go up.
a bit of a loaded question for a nuanced issue,
do you want immigration to go up with an additional 100k potwashers?
do you want immigration to go up with an additional 100k Dr's and nurses?
arguably the issue at the moment is that we can't stop the potwashers from 27 countries regardless of the success/ failure/ oversupply of labour of the dishwasher industry and purely on numbers Dr's and potwashers are seen as equivalent
@binners no one will put a number on anything. During the Labour leadership not one of the candidates would say how many refugees they woukd take Corbyn included, Camerons target became an aspiration rendering him and Remain mortaly wounded on that issue. The next PM cannot say for certain what the immigration rules will look like so how can Boris or anyone answer such a question. The campaign wasn't about numbers itnwas about control, as I sais Australia has controlled points based immigration and took double the amount of immigrants last year into a country roughly one third of the size. They did so as they decided it was the right thing to do.
