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EU Referendum - are...
 

[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

 igm
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Ninfan - fair enough. Got me. I knew that bike parts tend to be lower than bikes, but I didn't check it. Thought it was higher than 4% though.
Anyway the general point still stands, though you are correct somethings are higher, some lower. My real point was that it was other people's tariffs imposing costs on your industry that was the issue. And a 4% change in cost in our industry is the difference between massive contract and no contract - not retail so you can't dilute it by the mark up.

Sorry breaking news, Jamba say tariffs are not an issue so presumably he thinks we can not waste the time and money on the oodles (I've heard 120 or so)!that we'll need to renegotiate.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 6:59 am
 igm
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Probably be off line today as I'm off trying to do something nationally on addressing the skills shortage in our industry.

Which even with EU migration and other migration wasn't great - it'll be worse going forward given at least some of our staff are talking about leaving before they are pushed.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 7:09 am
 igm
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Vodaphone thinking similar thoughts - we need free movement of people to keep our industry going.
And the, well the necessary people can get visas in a points based system, just isn't good enough. I've tried it, it's not fast enough and posts go unfilled.

Vodafone has warned it could move its headquarters from the UK depending on the outcome of Britain's negotiations to leave the European Union.
The telecoms giant said in an emailed statement it was important to retain access to the EU's free "movement of people, capital and goods".
It was too early "draw any firm conclusions regarding the long-term location for the headquarters".
But Vodafone said that it would "take whatever decisions are appropriate".


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 7:29 am
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Since we are still members of the EU until Article 50 is declared and then it will be two years until we are out, why has our commissioner resigned and David Cameron not attending the summit today?


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 7:48 am
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I think the commissioner got the hump and flounced.

Why aren't we in the meeting where the remaining 27 decide what their redline issues / points to concede are for the forthcoming negotiation? I can understand that - will we be inviting them to our own pre-negotiation meetings?


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 7:50 am
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why has our commissioner resigned

Because as the Uk voted out he doesn't feel he can represent the UK's interest, has some morals and conviction so resigned. Anyone is free to do that.
David Cameron not attending the summit today

If it's one where they talk about us leaving we are not invited.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 7:52 am
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Because the PM has asserted that the govt's intention is to invoke A50 when they feel like it. If I told my wife I was planning on divorcing her in 2018 I wouldn't expect her to twiddle her thumbs until then.

In other news, British scientists are already being excluded from international EU grant applications. No-one wants to set up a multi-year project where one partner may pull out at any time (cos if we leave, UK institutes will no longer be eligible to hold the funding). Up to now, the UK has been incredibly successful at winning EU science funding, pulling in substantially more than any other country (and more than it's share of what it pays into the system too, of course).

Less than a week in, no plan, no govt, no opposition (except the SNP) and no way out. Well done Brexit.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 7:55 am
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2+ years of not knowing wtf is going to happen is awful for science, grant applications have to be submitted well in advance


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:01 am
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Yep, I'm in Cambridge later for a meeting with academic and industry partners. We were discussing a grant application, now we're discussing if we're eligible for grants any longer seeing as they are EU money.

I'd hope we'd still be able to get the money because now we're not sending it to the EU we can use it internally to sort out this stuff for ourselves. Except..... there's something I've overlooked, I'm sure.

Ah yes, i remember.

It's going to the NHS
It doesn't actually exist
And in fact we're already worse off than we were as our £ tanks, our investments plummet and GDP drops.

On the plus side, at least all the partners in this project are UK based SME's, academics, with one big multinational end user. I hope [u]they[/u] stay in the UK.......


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:05 am
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Less than a week in, no plan, no govt, no opposition (except the SNP) and no way out. Well done Brexit.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:08 am
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Clearly, you are eligible. We are EU members and no formal decision to leave has been made. Whether you want to take on something that you might have to pull out of in the future, is another matter. Whether you get the money in the first place when safer havens exist overseas, is yet another matter.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:10 am
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if only we were close to the end of the beginning Ninfan, I don't even think we have got to the end of the prequel yet.

Unless the tories have a sudden rush of common sense/greater good and draw straws for who gets to be the shorted serving PM ever and drops the ballot then the end of the beginning is pencilled in for sometime in September


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:11 am
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The ECFR have recognized that opposition parties are calling for 34 referenda across the EU ..


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:11 am
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34 in 28 members? Good effort


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:13 am
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Was thinking about this on the drive into work. The only possible way the Tories can make this work is by ditching austerity. The economy at best is going to go sideways for the foreseeable, so they are going to have to borrow and spend, spend, spend.

They are going to have to recruit hundreds, if not thousands of unelected bureaucrats in Whitehall and foreign offices to take care of all that bureaucracy we so craved to take ownership of - not sure how that is going to go down while public services continue to creak because of "immigration". So probably need a few more policemen around to take care of the race crime and rioting.

Need to keep spending on infrastructure otherwise when the economy does take off like the promised bottle rocket we will be sat around in meadows blinking in the sunlight.

Not sure they are going to go for that though.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:14 am
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Need to keep spending on infrastructure otherwise when the economy does take off like the promised bottle rocket we will be sat around in meadows blinking in the sunlight.

Not sure they are going to go for that though.


as good as any other plan isn't it..... nearly as good as trying to work out what a massive cock up for zero return the entire exercise was and how to get out of it and keep their jobs.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:18 am
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Was thinking about this on the drive into work. The only possible way the Tories can make this work is by ditching austerity.

They did that a while back - its just that no one noticed. GO has presided over one of the loosest fiscal policies in the developed world.

unelected bureaucrats in Whitehall

A bit puzzled by this. What are you proposing? That civil servants are elected?

Need to keep spending on infrastructure otherwise when the economy does take off like the promised bottle rocket we will be sat around in meadows blinking in the sunlight.

True, but not quite in our DNA. HS2 to be an early casualty?


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:28 am
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unelected bureaucrats in Whitehall

A bit puzzled by this. What are you proposing? That civil servants are elected?

I'm guessing it's a gentle poke at the VL unelected bureaucrats running our country


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:29 am
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Surely science grants are OK anyway. VL [s]pledged[/s] vaguely mooted the possibility of maintaining all current EU funding...


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:33 am
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Thanks mike 😉


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:36 am
 km79
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34 in 28 members? Good effort

Some will need to be run again though after they change their minds!


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:40 am
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Anyone think this is going to be an amicable divorce?


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:42 am
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What Mike said, "Taking back control" and all that.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 8:43 am
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"Surely science grants are OK anyway."

I think one source of science funding was not exclusive to EU members. Be interesting to see a list of all sources. Neither campaign thought that would be useful, it seems.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 9:04 am
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Scientists strive to be experts though. Nazis basically. Best to make sure they don't get any more money.*

*Piss taking


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 9:07 am
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Yep some schemes are part of the EU,some are out Horizon 2020 is fortunately seperate, but only has 7 more years to run,
ESA is also seperate, but plenty weren't
We contributed directly to EU science funding about 5bn and got 10bn back,o vet the last 8 years
Britain git twice as much as the next country out (germany). Because we were able to publish so well.
It's harder to quantify in many ways though because science is all about collaboration, Switzerland were shut out of the exchange programmes when they tried to leave schengen and the government had to stump up 25m just to keep them in ERASMUS


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 9:20 am
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Apparently Michael Dougan, the Liverpool uni prof whose EU law video has been posted here a few times, has [url= http://www.legalcheek.com/2016/06/university-of-liverpool-eu-law-lecturers-incredible-out-of-office-email-response-to-bremain-haters/ ]got so much abuse and racist hate email that he has had suspend his account[/url] 🙁

[i]"people in this country have had enough of experts"[/i] 😳


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:03 am
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Apparently Michael Dougan, the Liverpool uni prof whose EU law video has been posted here a few times, has got so much abuse and racist hate email that he has had suspend his account
"people in this country have had enough of experts

Those Remainers and their name calling. Tsk tsk. They need to move on now.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:08 am
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OOB, some non-EU countries have negotiated access to the funding, but it requires someone to sit down and do it, and it's not happening yet. To be clear, it is not the nationality of the scientist that matters, it is the location of the institute where they work. So UK scientists with ongoing ERC grants (which are probably the most prestigious funding scheme around) could always move to Europe if the UK left the EU, and I'm sure plenty of them will already be considering their options. In reality, the UK would certainly try to negotiate access but that's many months and possibly years down the line and no use to current applicants.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:09 am
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I think the commissioner got the hump and flounced.

This. As I posted before now there is some real work to be done he's not interested. Of course its no bad thingas by very definition and appointment our commissioners have been massive EU fans, something else is required now.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:14 am
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"Yep some schemes are part of the EU,some are out Horizon 2020 is fortunately seperate, but only has 7 more years to run,
ESA is also seperate, but plenty weren't
We contributed directly to EU science funding about 5bn and got 10bn back,o vet the last 8 years
Britain git twice as much as the next country out (germany). Because we were able to publish so well.
It's harder to quantify in many ways though because science is all about collaboration, Switzerland were shut out of the exchange programmes when they tried to leave schengen and the government had to stump up 25m just to keep them in ERASMUS"

Thanks, very interesting.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:17 am
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@kimbers £25m for Earsmus is tiny, we'll happily pay that. The whole EU "business model" is aboit squeezing the life out of member states democracies and making them feel dependent upon the EU. We are not depedent upon the EU, all this money you speak of is our money - we pay £180 for every £100 we get back. The forward planning can be dealt with by the government. Also how lucky you are to have 3-5 yr project funding. I am hired by my clients on 3 months notice, they can terminate at amy time after a 1yr minimum (if we can negotiate the minimum, often not possible)


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:19 am
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We contributed directly to EU science funding about 5bn and got 10bn back

@outofbreath, the EU cannot create money. It only has the budget contributions and we get back far less than we pay in. If we received more from that programme than we pay its becasue we are paying much more elsewhere


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:21 am
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@kimbers £25m for Earsmus is tiny, we'll happily pay that. The whole EU "business model" is aboit squeezing the life out of member states democracies and making them feel dependent upon the EU.

promises promises.... will we pay it today? Will we fund it before we get out magic not quite 350m back? Will we fund the stuff that won't happen as we are out of the cooperation zone?

we pay £180 for every £100 we get back

Or as Kimbers put it we get back 2x what we put in for the research field he is in. Others invest in us as we invest in them.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:22 am
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@j, Well yes, that's self evident. But since EU science funding was brought up the detail of it is interesting.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:24 am
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I have a challenge for you University Research folks (slightly tongue in cheek but I am trying to make a point)

Please submit a proposal here to say why your work is more valuable than extra funding for the NHS. Going forward this is what you'll have to do and its going to be tough because as much as I value academic research I'm leaning heavily towards money for the NHS. If anything is going to be "privitised" its research, business or charity (endowment) funding can pay. In a world where tough financial choices have to be made you must make a good case

I have no doubt the EU used academic funding as a carrot (and a stick) - as I said we are a net contributor somwe are funding our own research as well as that of others.

As for trade deals Trump has been making his views known. We could well be looking at a world in 2017 where trade deals are not quite the pancea some bureaucrats make out


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:28 am
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@mike but its a left pocket / right pocket circle with a middle man taking a 45% cut


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:29 am
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@torso - austerity. This always was about trying the balance the books, trying to prepare for more difficuot times ahead by nit being over indebted and/or dependent upon borrowing for day to day living. Now you and your fellow car passengers could well be right, depending upon how this works out the Government may have to increase borrowing but it won't ditch the necessary cost savings. It may be that the Brexit scenario/process is the "rainy day". IMO if thats rhe case its worth it for the long term benefits.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:33 am
 MSP
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Please submit a proposal here to say why your work is more valuable than extra funding for the NHS.

Tellk you what, why don't you submit a proposal telling us all why your 5% tax cut is worth more than funding the NHS. Then tell us how medicine advances without research, how the technology needed to create jobs advances without research.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:33 am
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Got that Oz PM link yet Jamby?

A stronger EU benefits the UK


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:34 am
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No Pudding for the EU leaders 🙂

"No beans in tomato sauce nor pudding for the dinner tonight," tweeted Tomas Prouza., the Czech State Secretary for European Affairs.


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:37 am
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Listen to Farage's speech at the EU. Its not my job to post links others can't be bothered to look for, I thought I'd made that apparent already. Links (which almost certainky won't be read) don't win Referendums do they 8)


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:39 am
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is that for me? Your claiming the Oz PM's comments based on something Farage said 🙂 No wonder there was no mention of it here. Both him and Shorten (opp leader) have said they would pursue close cooperation with the UK.

and with that has anyone got the total??

#Jambyfact


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:41 am
 DrJ
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Listen to Farage's speech at the EU. Its not my job to post links others can't be bothered to look for, I thought I'd made that apparent already. Links (which almost certainky won't be read) don't win Referendums do they

Is there a referendum we're contesting? I thought it was an internet discussion on a cycling website!


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:42 am
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A Spanish friend of mine has just been told "f***-o*f" back to Mexico". She is now afraid to talk in her own language, and even tries to hide her accent, due to this verbal abuse.

Well done England, well done [Sarcasm, for those hard of thinking]


 
Posted : 29/06/2016 10:43 am
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