What we want from oz is free access for our banks in their system, they want something from us in exchange, say to sell raw materials from their mining industry.
At the moment those are controlled by WTO rules which really doesn't suit either and restricts industries we think we are good at, so we need to do a deal to create free access, sounds easy but there will be hundreds of trades for all manner of industries with hundreds of caveats on each.
The EU and Australia made a pact to move towards a free trade deal 2 years ago, both sides are still deciding what will be in the negotiation, because that is how long these things take when done with due diligence. If the UK thinks it can rush through deals it will be bum raped quite severely.
At the risk of cross posting with danny[u]b[/u]goode, we would be tearing up the existing deal if we step outside of the single market.Explain why that requires us to have a trade deal with Oz/NL?
We don't need one, but would you do a million pound deal without some sort of contract in place?
At the risk of cross posting with dannybgoode, we would be tearing up the existing deal if we step outside of the single market.
We don't need one, but would you do a million pound deal without some sort of contract in place?
Is there an existing deal? I thought there wasn't? If there is, its very recent and we managed without for two centuries before.
Trouble with trading (in Goods) with NZ and AUS is that you have to ship them halfway around the world. That costs money and, just as importantly, time.
Shipping goods from London to, say Amsterdam, doesn't take long and doesn't cost too much.
To increase levels of trade with NZ and AUS we are going to have to make something they really, really want.
What we want from oz is free access for our banks in their system, they want something from us in exchange, say to sell raw materials from their mining industry.
At the moment those are controlled by WTO rules which really doesn't suit either and restricts industries we think we are good at, so we need to do a deal to create free access,
And Brexiters claim we'd be better off negotiating that from outside the EU because its specifically UK banking and Oz Mining involved so simpler not to involve the needs of 27 other nations some of which might want to protect their mining.
OK, I think I understand the arguments now. Ta.
At the moment we are more likely to lose our banks to the EU who are further down the road to an oz deal. The banks will be better positioned within the EU to take advantage of the deals already in progress, and will not want to lose access to the EU single market anyway..
Same for oz, clearly the EU is a better deal for its mining industry than little old Britain.
At the moment we are more likely to lose our banks to the EU who are further down the road to an oz deal. The banks will be better positioned within the EU to take advantage of the deals already in progress, and will not want to lose access to the EU single market anyway..
Same for oz, clearly the EU is a better deal for its mining industry than little old Britain.
The EU has lots of trade agreements at various stages, the UK will be years behind on all of them. We really are to going to be left behind on this.
"At the moment we are more likely to lose our banks to the EU"
Which will please many Brexiters. Revenge for the banking crisis. Banks aren't popular in some quarters.
We don't need one, but would you do a [s]million[/s] multi billion pound deal without some sort of contract in place?
Banking is just an example, every industry faces the same challenges.
The EU has got the blame for globalisation and modernisation of industry and the world in general.
The clock just cannot be turned back on that, we need to find solutions to equality, fairness and employment, we need to find a way to inject hope back into peoples lives, building walls, blaming immigration and isolationist policies just will not work.
Banks aren't popular in some quarters
It does pay for a lot of stuff though.
Banking is just an example, every industry faces the same challenges
Well be specific then!
Exactly why is a trade deal with Oz/NZ suddenly critical?
t does pay for a lot of stuff though.
Yeah, people don't seem to care that banks pay their staff out of the massive amounts of cash they generate for the UK.
They just hate bankers and want them to **** off abroad.
Well be specific then!
Now you are just being deliberately obtuse.
Trade deals.
Two equally good disc brakes (let's call them EUStoppers and Britbrakes).
They cost the same to produce and ship to OZ, but EUStoppers don't have an import tariff on them while Britbrakes do.
So the EYStopper is cheaper to the consumer and on balance sells better.
The Britbrakes have to be cheaper to produce or work better in order to compete.
And that (while massively simplified) is just the tariff. All the other things mentioned by others will either help or hinder EUStoppers too. Like perhaps having EU standards recognised as pukka in OZ, while Britbrakes have to prove compliance with OZ standards as well as British standards.
It just makes it easier for British companies to compete.
They are normally (always?) reciprocal so OZ companies benefit by being able to sell into our market. But our market is 1/6 of the EU so the EU market might be more attractive first.
Simplistic, but anyone disagree?
a friend whos a teacher in Cambridge 🙁
Feeling very sad. I observed racist ramifications of EU referendum today, with white British students telling a Polish student they should go home to Poland. Obviously this was not exactly the language used. I was shocked and angry these students felt that racism is now acceptable. I may have expressed my anger!
outofbreath - MemberYeah, people don't seem to care that banks pay their staff out of the massive amounts of cash they generate for the UK.
They just hate bankers and want them to **** off abroad.
I do find it funny how people suddenly hate bankers, yet they rely so much on them without them knowing it.
It all started with Americans wanting credit they couldn't afford (sub prime mortgages), the banks just handed them the cash with higher rates of interest to offset the risk, the responsibility of paying it back is for the individual. Yes the likes of Lehman should have managed their risk better, but ultimately it stemmed from individuals not being responsible.
nah it was the hedge fund traders what really screwed it, they chopped up those debts and repackaged it and sold it on, thy got big bonuses for making money out of the same stuff several times
when the mortgages went tits up the hedge funders couldnt exlpain what theyd been selling on so banks just stopped trusting each others borrowing/lending
*i am not an economist
True 😉 i think your opening line needs some revision 😉 and....
I do find it funny how people suddenly hate bankers, yet they rely so much on them without them knowing it.It all started with Americans wanting credit they couldn't afford (sub prime mortgages), the banks just handed them the cash with higher rates of interest to offset the risk, the responsibility of paying it back is for the individual. Yes the likes of Lehman should have managed their risk better, but ultimately it stemmed from individuals not being responsible.
Can we play "spot the banker" now?
I hate bankers because they have hijacked everything we do, we are reliant on them because they have so much influence/control, and yet they are not the most honest when it comes to financial dealings.
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I hate bankers because they have hijacked everything we do, we are reliant on them because they have so much influence/control, and yet they are not the most honest when it comes to financial dealings.
Is that Matthew 21:12?
Trade deals.Two equally good disc brakes (let's call them EUStoppers and Britbrakes).
They cost the same to produce and ship to OZ, but EUStoppers don't have an import tariff on them while Britbrakes do.
So the EYStopper is cheaper to the consumer and on balance sells better.
The Britbrakes have to be cheaper to produce or work better in order to compete.
And that (while massively simplified) is just the tariff. All the other things mentioned by others will either help or hinder EUStoppers too.
Apart from the fact that the trade tariffs, sitting at about 4% of trade price transports into making an inconsequential difference at retail, maybe 2%, which is well within the built in ranges an importer would allow to cover forex rates etc.
Like perhaps having EU standards recognised as pukka in OZ, while Britbrakes have to prove compliance with OZ standards as well as British standards.
most standards are already highly integrated internationally, hence are ISO rather than just local standards. so for example BS EN ISO 4210 applies to bikes pretty much worldwide
Apart from the fact that the trade tariffs, sitting at about 4% of trade price transports into making an inconsequential difference at retail
4% on bike parts? Or on everything? Why is everyone making such a fuss over it if it's not important?
on the standards thing, as everyone likes a helmet debate!, Australia, for some reason!, has decided that helmets have to comply to there standard which is different to everyone elses. That Giro you are wearing is probably illegal in Aus. When i say illegal i mean you can be fined and will be treated as not wearing one at all!
I know it is a minor example, but it does illustrate the point that one of the ideas behind the EU was to unify standards to make life easier to trade.
Now if you are a UK manufacturer and want to sell into the Australian market, whose standards do you adopt? Would it be helpful if their was an agreement in place that allowed for the standards to be regarded as equivalent?
Have a look at your driving licence, see the flag in the corner that signifies equivalence.
Something else that might help explain how complicated it can be
[url] http://www.dutycalculator.com/dc/16850-import-duty-rate-for-Bicycle-is-14/ [/url]
Would it be helpful if their was an agreement in place that allowed for the standards to be regarded as equivalent?
You mean like ISO?
ninfan... you do realise that there are EN standards which aren't also ISO, just like there are ANSI standards for the US etc...
Also, wasn't part of the reason brexiters wanted to leave the EU to stop 'undemocratic institutions' telling us what we can and can't do? Doesn't this also stand for the ISO? Are you going to campaign to leave that next too?
Yes indeed. Bring back the kite mark. See where that gets you.
You mean like ISO?
and ISO isn't universal, it is a step in the right direction granted, but you don't have to accept it.
What have the Europeans ever done for us part whatever - euro norms
Thank you ninfan for reminding us.
Oh and a bicycle doesn't seem to be 4% in mrmo's post. Perhaps you could explain the 4% further. (Just because I'm now assuming that as a leaver you occasionally just make things up - you may not have, but leave does have a track record on this) 😉
igm, tariffs are insane, the rate on a bike is different to the rate on a pile of bits that make up a bike. Also where it is coming from matters, things like anti dumping allow for higher rates to be charged.
mrmo - indeed. As an occasional buyer of things from overseas I see this sort of thing. But ninfan picked 4% so let him explain to us why.
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Nice burn from Guy VerhoofinSlats.
I've been catching up with how a few friends and family voted in the last couple of days and I've only managed to find one other person that voted to remain. Currently the split is 11 to 2.
So Cameron has told the council of ministers that there can be no free movement of people, a few hours after Merkel had said, no free movent, no trade.
A nice **** you to Johnson and Gove; a promise they can never deliver on.
(Their task already suffering a hard blow after Farage, managed to alienate and insult every single MEP, in a display n of narcissistic hubris like no other)
@kimbers Cameron said the EU had to do more on free movement as uncontrolled immigration had been a key issue in the Referendum. He didn't say we had to abolish it (his opinion). Basically he was telling them - [b]"I asked for this, you said no and so we lost"[/b]
Freedom of movement is massive for the EU as its one of the big carrots they need for new members as they need new members to sustain their outdated economic model.
As above many tarifs are not a big deal, £ has moved more than 5% vs the euro many times in the last 10 years. Cars are a big one, I think thats 12% but we still biy plenty of Korean, Japanese and American cars.
@muppet interesting
@welsh I fail to see what advantage their is for a tech company to be inside the EU ?
@captain bankers have "power" as we like to borrow money
igm - membermrmo - indeed. As an occasional buyer of things from overseas I see this sort of thing. But ninfan picked 4% so let him explain to us why.
Because [b]you[/b] used disc brakes as an example, hence me discussing the relevant tariff to [b]your[/b] example, pretty simple I would have thought.
Glad to see your still up Jmaby, where is that link to the Oz PM bit? Given we are 3 days out from an election there is a bit to sift through here.
The UK/Aus trade is very important well was... the UK was seen as the gateway to the EU for a lot of countries, you could set up in an English speaking country with very similar ideas and rules work from an office without needing to learn new languages etc. Then trade in and out of Europe with ease and impunity. Also Australian corporations own a lot of UK assets.
When considered as a bloc, the EU consistently shows up as one of Australia's main trading partners. Consider the statistics below:In 2014 the EU was Australia's largest source of foreign investment and second-largest trading partner, although the European Commission placed it third after China and Japan in 2015;
In 2014, the EU's foreign direct investment in Australia was valued at $169.6 billion and Australian foreign direct investment in the EU was valued at $83.5 billion. Total two-way merchandise and services trade between Australia and the EU was worth $83.9 billion; and
The EU is Australia's largest services export market, valued at nearly $10 billion in 2014. Services account for 19.7 per cent of Australia's total trade in goods and services, and will be an important component of any future free trade agreement.
This is all well and good. But when not considered as a bloc, 48 per cent of Australia's exports in services to the EU were via the UK; of the $169 billion in EU foreign direct investment, 51 per cent came from the UK; and of Australia's foreign direct investment into the EU, 66 per cent went to the UK.You get the picture.
The UK was Australia's eighth-largest export market for 2014; it represented 37.4 per cent of Australia's total exports to the EU. As Austrade noted:
No other EU country featured in Australia's top 15 export markets.
In short, the EU is not as attractive to Australia without Britain in it.
So a mild positive for the UK there, you are much better in the EU from our perspective. A weaker pound does nothing for Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-25/what-britai n's-decision-to-leave-the-eu-means-for-australia/7543318
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-27/verrender-brexit-will-deliver-a-few-home-truths/7545338
And if out PM on the campaign trail did say he was keen to make a trade deal with the UK a priority I can only guess it was important to the people he was addressing like the Wine Makers, Wool Exporters etc. Iron Ore - do you lot still buy any of that?
And as it will take at least 2+ years to need a trade deal I'm sure they will have time to finish the EU one first and we shall see how many firms make the jump to Dublin before then.
Jambalaya......
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What bargaining chips does he just now? None. What sort of say does he get in the second day of meetings today? None. Populist headline that seems to suggest on first read that voting out has in some way empowered the UK.
It is a strange one, I wonder how the sentence actually finished.
Sort out immigration or I'll call a referendum and leave the EU?
It was probably lost on most of the people in the room as the translators all had to leave to piss themselves.
anyway the sun rises on another glorious day in the people's republic of Borisland.... 6 Days post Brexit and the wounds are healing nicely, no sign of infection and nearly time to be moved off life support.
CMD is still suffering convulsions but is expected to hit rigor mortis shortly, during a fierce battle with what turned out to be his friends the Great Black Knight Jeremy
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suffered nothing more than a minor flesh wound and fully expects to return to work as soon as they tell him where they moved his desk to.
in other news the gallant and bold Sir Nigel, Liberator of the People, Man of the People and all round top bloke lept unarmed and into the amphitheatre (we are going to need some english versions of all these words) and fiercely battled all sorts of evil undead creatures, at one stage dropping his trousers and waving his cock in their faces before heading for a pint with the major racists of europe.
Plan Update - call back tomorrow
