[quote=igm ]Only at Westminster it seems. Holyrood appears to have got its act together and is stepping on to the world stage. Nicola is already being asked to talk to a variety of people, she has a plan and her MEPs are getting standing ovations.
Well to be fair, she's got a much easier job - she has a popular mandate to do the right thing
^ Or the fact that he had a platform from which to spiel his vile comments and knew it would reinforce his standing amongst his peers and social class when it was published in the media.
so ingrained in his racist attitudes, that he could not stop himself
Yeah heard that on the radio this morning.
I [i]kinda[/i] understand it. I was brought up with that word in common usage. It was used, completely without malicious intent, to refer to the corner shop. Just as "Chinky" was used, without malice, to refer to somewhere selling Chinese food.
[b]Clearly both are unacceptable now[/b] (emphasis before I get flamed) - but some folks are very slow to change. It didn't sound, to me, like he intended it as the deep racial slur that she understandably took it as.
Well to be fair, she's got a much easier job - she has a popular mandate to do the right thing
Yes - her electoral mandate agrees with the referendum result and her party's aims. She has no shitstorm to deal with, really.
[quote=slowster ]Apologies if this has already been posted, and it probably does not add anything more to the conversation after the video of the racist on the tram, but I am surprised that this has not been publicised more widely.
The difference in this case, is that the man knew he was being recorded by a BBC reporter, and he was a) so thick and b) so ingrained in his racist attitudes, that he could not stop himself. The reporter's name is Sima Kotecha. She's British.
Radio 4 Today programme item, from 2hrs 45 mins:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07h69n7
😆
Heard that this morning, loved the bit when when he mumbles something like
"i'm not a racist though i could have come out with more offensive words, know what i mean?"
[quote=GrahamS ]It didn't sound, to me, like he intended it as the deep racial slur that she understandably took it as.
+1 - he came across as a bit dim rather than particularly racist*. I can understand why she took it the way she did and wouldn't criticise her at all for it, but I'd expect her interaction with somebody genuinely racist to go a bit differently.
* maybe racist on a subconscious level, but those without any real power who don't act on such beliefs aren't really a problem
"Or they could have made it an advisory referendum"
They did.
[img]
[/img]
@mikesmith I hear the PM's of Australia and New Zealnd have each said they would like to be the first country to sign a trade deal with the UK. Exactly as I predicted.
@tmh I am not entirely aure about power transfer with Article 50, with elections in Germany and France in 2017 both those couuntries will be at a very sensitive politcal stage. They will wish to be able to tell their electorates they are progressing a deal with the UK as they have much at stake. They also have to explain how the €15bn nett we contribute annually will be replaced.
Boris is I imagine focusing on the Tory leadership contest, had Cameron not resigned he would be getting on with something else.
I hear the PM's of Australia and New Zealnd have each said they would like to be the first country to sign a trade deal with the UK.
Source?
jamba really is a Farage alter ego - I'm fairly sure the source for that is Farage in the EU parliament earlier today
[quote=jambalaya ]Boris is I imagine focusing on the Tory leadership contest, had Cameron not resigned he would be getting on with something else.
Playing cricket? Writing newspaper articles?
Oh, silly me, that's what he was doing anyway
Source?
Are you new around here?
I posted this on the Scottish Indy thread too, Tusk has said it would not be appropriate for him to meet Nicola Sturgeon tommorrow. I can well imagine the Spanish are pushing back hard on their being any such dialogue. MEP's giving a hearty round of applause to a Scot praising the EU is a bit different than the politics of membership
Aus and NZ are among many that have stated they will do trade deals with the UK, of course everyone knows we are currently hit below the waterline and now is the time to get the best deal for them while we have neither the manpower or time to give deals full diligence.
Could you link where your 15 000 000 000e net comes form, Jamba.
I'm still waiting for a link to the 250 000 city jobs lost in the last 8 years.
As for the EU raising extra cash that's easy. We just have to charge a bit more than Norway is charged per capita to let the UK trade with the 27. And a bit more for good measure.
Great, our natural trading partners, almost literally on the other side of the world. Maybe we can build a tunnel? How are we going to deal with them whilst they are all asleep?
Jambas was referring to this
The good news is that Australia might get a flood of applications from talented prospective citizens. [b]The bad news is that Britain will be a diminished international force with limited capacity to play the sort of role some conservative commentators in this country fondly imagine.[/b] It is hardly a coincidence that those in Australia who want the country to become a republic have a renewed spring in their step [b]as they consider political folly on an epic scale.[/b]
Or perhaps not
Thank **** for Australia wanting a trade deal. One of our major trading partners.
The economy is saved.
Wait-how much trade do we do with Australia?
Fosters?
jamba was actually referring to what he said earlier (not his main speech, that was earlier in the session):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07kdm5s/european-parliament-28062016#playt=1h46m25s
For those who haven't already seen it, listen on to Alyn Smith MEP and the reaction he gets
torsoinalake - Member
Where is Boris anyway?
Never mind Boris. Where's ernie?
[url= http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-27/turnbull-orders-orders-urgent-review-of-brexit-implications/7546890 ]australia nz trade deal[/url]
The last bit is the most telling though,
Where do we put the real effort, the UK or EU, we trade with the EU through the UK....
So as the UK has no trade negotiators and the EU lots.....
Who is going to get the deal done first? And where are the major sea ports in Europe?
edit
[url] http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11664618 [/url]
Currently New Zealand primary exports to Britain are at three per cent, and 11 per cent to Europe. It was a different picture when Britain entered the European Union 43 years ago - at that time 40 per cent of exports went to Britain. And in the 1950s, more than 80 per cent of New Zealand exports went to Britain.
where would you put the effort?
"I can well imagine the Spanish are pushing back hard on their being any such dialogue."
Not just the Spanish. The EU has nothing to gain by encouraging Nationalism and everything to lose.
Plus, far from being a driver for Scottish Independence these events have shown that voting for something to happen doesn't make it practically possible. If the UK can't sensibly extricate itself from the EU what hope does Scotland have of negotiating its way out of the UK without reaching a terminal impasse.
Trading with Australia.. great... so next time I go to a client workshop I'll have a 24 hour flight.. ****ing marvellous.
Trading services with Australia has certain practical problems, don't you think?
Problems? In Jambaland? You must be mistaken...
molgrips - Member
Trading with Australia.. great... so next time I go to a client workshop I'll have a 24 hour flight.. **** marvellous.Trading services with Australia has certain practical problems, don't you think?
but we will bring back concorde, ignore the french involvement, and rule the skies once more. BOAC Comets will provide for the more routine flights.
"So as the UK has no trade negotiators and the EU lots.....
Who is going to get the deal done first?"
Do you even need a trade deal? You pay tariffs on exports, but you get to charge tariffs on your imports.
Doesn't seem terrible.
Do we really export that much more to Oz/Nz than we import?
From reading this forum and others for years I'm aware Australia is a big export market for well-qualified and experienced people. Police officers, medical personnel, IT staff, engineers... .
How do you decide what tariffs are on what?Do you even need a trade deal?
"How do you decide what tariffs are on what?"
Tariffs already exist. The deal is to remove them.
What of it?Always a tremendously flawed system. The only reason it's in use is that the other systems so far invented are worse. It's not an ideal, just a messy compromise.
One person=one vote...how is that flawed, not ideal and messy?
One person=one vote...how is that flawed, not ideal and messy?
Are you not watching the news? Looks pretty flippin messy to me.
Giving everyone's opinion equal weight has some clear drawbacks don't you think?
So you need a deal then? To agree to remove tariffs?Tariffs already exist. The deal is to remove them.
The outcome may be messy but that's not the fault of the process. Once the fear subsides things will seem clearer.
So you need a deal then? To agree to remove tariffs?
Do you? We've managed without to date. Why can't we just carry on as we are?
History is littered with the conclusions to that argument.Giving everyone's opinion equal weight has some clear drawbacks don't you think?
Because we have just voted to leave the EU.Do you? We've managed without to date. Why can't we just carry on as we are?
If only a trade deal was just about tariffs. They're about how you access local markets, overcome potential competition conflicts, what local environmental regulations goods have to meet, whether to allow other countries to trade on the same basis or as part of the deal do you want say China to find it harder to sell steel. Also, it may be that your trade partner wants you to back off a third market in return for preferential access to theirs.
The tariffs are the easy bit.
The much shared presentation by the professor at Liverpool Uni explains the complexities of them far better than I do and also why being out of the EU will weaken our trade position.
Worth 25 minutes of anyone's time to watch the whole thing or skip toward the end for the bit on trade deals.
dannyh, why can't you just accept democracy and crack on?
Surely democracy includes the right to carry on campaigning, to discuss and debate, to fight for what you believe in.
Telling someone to shut up, piss off and move on is about as undemocratic as it gets...
Sorry, was pulling your leg. Or taking the vote Leave approach. Depends how you look at it.
If only a trade deal was just about tariffs. They're about how you access local markets, overcome potential competition conflicts, what local environmental regulations goods have to meet, whether to allow other countries to trade on the same basis or as part of the deal do you want say China to find it harder to sell steel. Also, it may be that your trade partner wants you to back off a third market in return for preferential access to theirs.
The tariffs are the easy bit.
The much shared presentation by the professor at Liverpool Uni explains the complexities of them far better than I do and also why being out of the EU will weaken our trade position.
Worth 25 minutes of anyone's time to watch the whole thing or skip toward the end for the bit on trade deals.
Yup, its been widely circulated.
My question still stands. We currently trade happily with Oz and NZ with no trade deal.
What's the big problem with continuing to do so? The stuff we're exporting to OZ/NL already meets their requirements, and the stuff we import from them will already meet EU (and therefore UK) regs. Why is it suddenly critical to negotiate a trade deal with them? What stops us carrying on without?
Plus I'm not Dannyh 🙂
But seriously, the video is worth watching...
Because we have just voted to leave the EU
Explain why that requires us to have a trade deal with Oz/NL?
@oob-nothing. But one if the things we were 'promised' by VL is that we'd have better deals in place particularly with non-EU countries to offset the extra costs of doing business with Europe outside the single market.
What's the point in leaving if we are just going to maintain the status quo.
VL were very vocal. We leave the EU we're free to do deals with who we want how we want.
And there is a base trade deal lodged in Geneva under WTO rules...
@oob-nothing
Phew.
