[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

I want to know what has been promised to Nissan.

I've met several young leavers and their reasons were based on their own research, and there are many valid reasons to want to leave the EU - Corbyn until recently used to iterate them for example.

I have no reason to doubt you and they could just vote Leave again. Their single vote is worth as much second time around as the first: another vote isn't devaluing that.

I just don't see why it shouldn't be considered prudent for such a massive decision to have a second vote, especially when the vote was so close, and with such a large percentage of the electorate not voting. I'd probably be saying the same if it was marginal the other way...

I almost feel embarrassed to be a remainer given the excuses that are being bandied about - we didn't k ow this, we didn't know that, others are stupid they didn't know anything etc. FFS, we had months of debate

The whole debate is embarrassing - at least the editor of The Economist is talking sense - poor lady having to deal with the ignorant shouter!

it's not an assault on democracy

Not liking the decision, like brexit, does not make it undemocratic

Any bets on which party bald headed bloke supports?

edit: no I don't mean Javid

Shit thick, old, ruddy faced, furiously indignant flag wavers shouting down anyone who disagrees with them. Who'd have predicted that eh?

Are you talking about Javid now?

He's an alien. He'll get bermed up as the programme finishes

I've never got the '17m have spoken' argument. 30m didn't vote Leave.

What price apathy?

So why was the public vote on Boaty McBoatface not honoured? Leaving the EU is even more stupid!

Good question from DD - what exacltly do we want to Gov to say?

.....err it's about jobs. No shit Sherlock.

No one knows what they want on either side. WTF is going to be presented to Parliament for them to vote on???

Some very angry people there.

Almost enough to make me want to leave the country just so that I don't have to pay for their pensions.

And therein lies the problem Hurty. We're months into this, and everyone (on all sides) is still sat there with their thumbs up their arses, going.... 'Erm.... What happens now?'

Go on.... meet us half way..... give us the remotest *ing clue where this is going? Where the * are you proposing to take us?

Any bets on which party bald headed bloke supports?

edit: no I don't mean Javid

😀

Some articulate bloke just arguing against representative government now 😯

We don't know what happens next. It's never been done before. And we are now pretending that we can package it into a nice cosy package that we can all agree on - no really

With this and the US election, we are at an end of civilisation moment. Good job there at no Russioan boats in the Med about to bomb the hell out of Alleppo

Trump is gonna win Hurty. Just to make this the most insane year since the 1930's. Then we're into the end of days. I'm going to buy a shitload of heroin and a wingsuit

There are no winners in any of this binns.

Self harm gone mad......

What compete tools on QT tonight on both the Con and Labour sides. Just STFU, stop arguing amongst yourselves and work together for a change to do something for the country to make the best of this whole sorry Brexit mess!

Agreed re QT, thats the problem at the moment we have some stupendoiusly poor politicians.

Edit: Oh hang on things are looking up Lizzie's on This Week

Agreed Wilburt. There are utterly clueless ****-wits at the helm in both Labour and the Tories

I predict that open civil war is about to erupt in both the main parties about what form brexit should take. It's going to be anarchy. The madness is really about to start now. This could be the end of traditional party politics as we know it

Here's hoping...

I think it's time to bring in some consultants, you know, people who are qualified in service transition. People with real gravitas. Like the Bobs.

[img] [/img]

...and then you have representatives of the will of the people in the QT audience. I did enjoy the demonstration of a complete failure to understand things coming from the ardent Brexshitters.

I was rather disappointed that nobody elaborated on the point about voting for Trump being like voting for Brexit from one of the audience members - I'm curious what the reaction would have been from a clearly anti-Trump audience to being told that voting Leave was just like voting Trump in a more explicit way.

stop arguing amongst yourselves and work together for a change to do something for the country to make the best of this whole sorry Brexit mess

So agree that the leave campaign was founded upon deceitful manipulation and downright lies, then agree to remain and work constructively with the EU to improve it? That sort of thing for the country?

So agree that the leave campaign was founded upon deceitful manipulation and downright lies, then agree to remain and work constructively with the EU to improve it? [b]That sort of thing for the country?[/b]

I think the "or summink" is a more lucid concept than most of the frothing Brexit supporters have achieved for the duration

I want to know what has been promised to Nissan.

I reckon it was that Brexit isn't going to happen.

Been browsing the Daily Mail (through a proxy obviously) and this is my favourite quote so far.

And, yes, this paper acknowledges that on a blinkered reading of statutes and such very few precedents as exist, it is possible to argue that the Government lacks the authority to trigger Brexit without the go-ahead of the Lords and Commons.

But from every other viewpoint, the ruling flies in the face of justice and common sense.

The basic problem is that the referendum told us that (on the day, campaign facts, lies and spin aside) about half of those who voted wanted one thing and half wanted another diametrically opposed thing.
And the referendum legislation didn't say what to do.

That and no one knows exactly either of the two thing we're in real terms.

Referenda throw things into black and white when everyone wants shades of grey - and the post referendum discussion hasn't helped.

Oh the irony. The referendum was partly to do with us supposedly wasting millions of pounds in the EU...but Dave Cameron has potentially wasted millions of pounds on a vote that may not have been been legal...shows how politicians are not particularly smart...

Sadly there was not unlawful about the referendum itself (although given how recklessly it was carried out is should have been).

This is purely about who has the power to act on this particular referendum. If the Govt wanted to be able to trigger A50 under royal prerogative then it should have written that into the Referendum Act and then there wouldn't be an issue.

It will be interesting to see what happens now. Would the government dare to trigger A50 anyway? Under the EU constitution that might well be binding and also irrevocable in spite of the Court's decision. We'll have to see what happens in the appeal.

Oh and to all these people that wanted to "take back control" that are now calling the judges "traitors" etc. Perhaps reflect for a second on the fact that, where in human history a Government has acted without recourse to a Parliament or the judiciary, we have called that a dictatorship.

I'm surprised that no one has bought a legal case against the Brexit campaign, mostly based on lies and false promises. Seriously how as a country can we allow a vote's result to be valid when those results were based on lying to the people.

It would be like Tony Blair taking us to go to war in Iraq on the promise of finding WMD's and then when WMD's are not found, continuing into war anyway. Oh wait . . .

It would be like Tony Blair taking us to go to war in Iraq on the promise of finding WMD's and then when WMD's are not found, continuing into war anyway.

My worry, not just about Brexit but all the big challanges, globalisation, climate change, polution, distribution of resources, conflicts, is a view suggested by that lovely Prof Cox in a recent interview.

He said "maybe we(humans) are clever..but just not quite clever enough to
succesfully run a planet.

I don't think the Daily Mail has taken the news well... 😆

[img] [/img]
From [url= http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2016/11/03/unbrexit-article-50-its-not-very-nifty/ ]ThePoke.co.uk[/url]

Also, as for 'Hard Brexit' - that's not what the people voted for is it. The vote was a very close run thing and 48% of the voters wanted no Brexit, so the negotiations with the EU should reflect this, meaning that the deal we finally agree with the EU should be roughly half way along the line between Hard Brexit' and no Brexit.

Would we be able to take the Out campaign to the Advertising Authority for blatantly advertising a lie?

What a day to pick to be offline 😉 Must catch up later. Article 50 before end of March either via winning an appeal or by a Commons Vote perhaps as soon as later this month. Tories won't vote against it or trigger a General Election. My 2 cents.

classy stuff from the sun
[img] [/img]
nothing like stirring up a bit of xenophobia.

Ahh, the good old Sun, the racist builder's friend!

He said "maybe we(humans) are clever..but just not quite clever enough to
succesfully run a planet.

He's right, on the one hand, but I also doubt whether we're intelligent enough to even run countries, let alone a whole planet.

The real Daily Mail cover is just as bad Klunk:

[img] :large[/img]

How long till they do: "Reader's Offer: Collect three tokens for your own sovereignty pitchfork and petrol bomb"

But...but...we wanted to get sovringty for our Parlyment back, didn't we?

I see the papers are reveling in sewing hatred and division once more

aahh the sweet, sweet smell of Brexishambles we truly are a global laughing stock, hurraahhh for little englanders

Article 50 before end of March either via winning an appeal

Given how clear the Judges were about the reasoning behind their verdict, I doubt the answer from the suprime court would be any different. And why would you want it to be, you wanted the UK parliament to be sovereign, right? This is the separation of powers in the Westminster system working as it's supposed to.

or by a Commons Vote perhaps as soon as later this month

They won't be debating it while they're appealing it. And in any case, it requires an act of parliament, which means the Lords as well (no brexshit majority there either, and no way of voting them out either, so no pressure), and good old Queen Bess' moniker 'n' all. In any case, once it is debated in parliament, the absence of a plan will become very apparent to all.

.

Tories won't vote against it or trigger a General Election.

My 2 cents.

Which, coincidentally, is what the pound jumped by on the news that some semblance of sanity had been returned

My ghod - Brexshit delayed by a darkie!! Horror on Mail Street!!

Defenders of the people surely?

tragically predictable, Death Threats against Gina Millar, I saw some very horrible stuff on FB yesterday too

I thought it was us remoaners who were supposed to be all nasty ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/article-50-fallout-sees-gina-millar-receive-death-threats-online_uk_581ba19fe4b020461a1bec57

sewing hatred

It's a stitch up!

tragically predictable, Death Threats against Gina Millar,

Sadly unsurprising. My first thought on seeing the daily mail front page was 'how long till one of them gets death threats/ screamed at in the streets'

Loaded foreign elite? A bit like Murdoch then!

Does it really need an act of parliament to trigger article 50 as opposed to a parliamentary resolution ? It will need an Act to revoke the EU legislation but that is a different post article 50 thing . I have not read the full judgement yet as too busy trying to read and apply other ones from this week .

Paper owned by billionaire shapeshifter lizard resident of wherever he can get away with paying the least tax rails against "loaded foreign elite".

The press in this country is an open sewer.

I feel a bit funny.

Listening to Ken Clarke last night and Nick Clegg this morning, on the radio, I thought they were excellent and completely agreed with them.

Thank goodness for parliamentary process.

Paper owned by billionaire shapeshifter lizard resident of wherever he can get away with paying the least tax rails against "loaded foreign elite".

If you want a laugh, turn Five Live on. They're about to have a phone in about yesterdays court decision.

Expect a parade of shouty, angry, racist, very red-faced black cab drivers, and outraged retired colonels, so fuelled on righteous indigence that they're about to go into orbit

All very entertaining 😀

I watched Question Time last night, I'm depressed.

It was the Labour lady that did it, she and the other Politicians have no intention whatsoever in making sure we get what's best for the country as all we heard was that she'd vote for Article 50 (along with typical weasel politician phrases about jobs/economy etc), but bottom-line is that none of them (except the SNP I'd guess) will put themselves out there.

IMO the UK is bollox'd and it'll only get worse; socially and economically.

I watched Question Time last night, I'm depressed.

I remember sticking up for the UK on previous threads, saying how overall it was a pretty decent place to live and work. Partly because of the openness and tolerance of people.

I feel pretty stupid now.

Yep [i]you're[/i] bolox'd.

Grandparent's birth certificates obtained. Entry requested on Irish birth register.

It was the Labour lady that did it, she and the other Politicians have no intention whatsoever in making sure we get what's best for the country

Exactly, all she's interested in is making the Conservatives look like idiots (which often they are of course) - she's not interested in what's good for the country. Shame on her!

It's about time that the politicians worked together for the good of the country, standing up for what they believe in and not just by default opposing what the other side are saying, engaging in political points scoring to try and further their own careers. It's no wonder that the public hate politicians!

If you want a laugh, turn Five Live on. They're about to have a phone in about yesterdays court decision.

Expect a parade of shouty, angry, racist, very red-faced black cab drivers, and outraged retired colonels, so fuelled on righteous indigence that they're about to go into orbit

All very entertaining

I'm holding out for the Jeremy Vine show on R2. Even more incoherent frothing than normal, hopefully. 🙂

A spilt government including the nutters capable of doing real harm and with the levers to do so, a split opposition including the nutter capable of doing real harm but largely AWOL - please can this put an end to the idea that we want governments play a greater role in running the country. It an omnishambles

QT (Ed of Economist apart who must have wondered WTF did I agree to this) was a genuine low

So next step. Present Bill proposing trigger of A50 noting this is

1 Executing the mandate delivered by the referendum
2 Will trigger negotiations regarding a deal specific to the UK
3 As such involves a wide range of potential outcomes including potentially a hard exit (all known at the time of the election)
4 Gov will seek to protect trade, investment and jobs in the UK, prioritising access to a single market

The Ayes have it....

Now get on with it FFS

I hope someone takes the express to court for incitement, just for sh1t$ and giggles I had a look at what they were saying, its horrific! Article talks about war and churchill and ends exhorting people to 'fight fight fight!'

Yesterday's express front page had a picture of FOREIGN lorry drivers on their phones. Any driver on their phone is bad news. Why did they have to comment on where they are from if not to stir up hatred?

please can this put an end to the idea that we want governments play a greater role in running the country

So who else is going to do it?

If you want a laugh, turn Five Live on. They're about to have a phone in about yesterdays court decision.

Marvellous isn't it. I especially liked the man who was blubbing about the end of the greatest democracy the world has ever seen. Special mention too to the woman who said the next 1000 years of history will be consigned to the dustbin if we don't leave the EU.

Risked a look at the Express website this morning (early morning heart starter you see) and I can only come to the conclusion it is the Daily Mash come to life - evoking the spirt of Churchill and all of that.

I already hated the prospect of Brexit and the Brexiteers, but I hate them even more after seeing the reaction to the courts.

The Turkeys might have almost been spared Christmas, and yet they still demand it. Weird.

Ok, here's an idea.

If Trump wins the US election, maybe we can get him to issue say half a million green cards a year to UK citizens. That should filter out a fair few dickheads from this country. No-one decent would emigrate, but the kind of stupid racist thickos for whom those newspaper front pages are written would probably lap it up and leave.

I'm as depressed now, because of those newspaper headlines, than I was on the 24th of June.

....

Article talks about war and Churchill

Thought Churchill was pro EU?

Ok, here's an idea.

If Trump wins the US election, maybe we can get him to issue say half a million green cards a year to UK citizens. That should filter out a fair few dickheads from this country. No-one decent would emigrate, but the kind of stupid racist thickos for whom those newspaper front pages are written would probably lap it up and leave.

Thought Churchill was pro EU?

He was, but that is an actual fact and who gives a shit about those any more?

So who else is going to do it?

Please bring back Spitting Image. Please.

If we could get all the moderate businesses and people to chip in enough money we could maybe start a free paper, like Metro - hand it out to bored people on public transport, and perhaps present an alternative viewpoint...

maybe we can get him to issue say half a million green cards a year to UK citizens

Or even better get the EU to issue passports to those who want them and everyone with half a brain and the ability to use it can **** off and leave the idiots to their 1950s fantasy island.

Please bring back Spitting Image. Please.

Teamhurtmore - Member
please can this put an end to the idea that we want governments play a greater role in running the country.

Or, maybe our government could actually *try* running the country for while? - it would probably be more constructive than all the posturing and back-stabbing our glorious leaders fill their time with...

for example, here are 3 problems requiring urgent attention:

1) the price of housing
2) air pollution
3) energy production

i don't see anything being done about any of them.

leave the idiots to their 1950s fantasy island.

The German slang for Brits has never been more appropriate:

Inselaffen - Island Monkeys

matt_outandabout - Member

Please bring back Spitting Image. Please.

I did wonder if Brexit had been carefully manipulated by Ian Hislop purely for the comedy news. The great reveal will be when Theresa May pulls off her wig and it turns out to be Paul Merton in drag.