Don't blame the media. Sixty kids in my daughters reception class due to mainly Polish intake, and I like the Poles. I didn't like the system that allowed this to happen on such a scale and so voted Leave.
They were lied to but couldn't be arsed to fact-check. Hell mend them.
Absolutely correct. Quite a lot of banging on about not trusting "any of them ****ing politicians" but then listened to politicians and willfully ignored expert analysis.
The more you try to rationalise what has gone on, the more you keep coming back to the conclusion that sheer stupidity is to blame.
If you're an expert you are ignored because you are 'talking down' to people.
What else could the experts have done? Drawn graphs in crayon and explained that when the big red line goes down, that is bad?
This is the biggest manifestation so far of what I have referred to for years as "the shithead tendency". If you try to reason with some people one on one they just get more frustrated when they realise they are totally wrong. They then usually threaten to kick your head in.
How do you influence people who refuse to be influenced by reason and then start to actively take pride in the fact that they have to resort to threats of violence?
How have we created a situation where wanton stupidity is considered somehow noble? Where anyone who is intelligent and well-informed is pilloried as a liar and elitist if they present a case against the views of the idiots.
We are in dangerous territory here, wanton stupidity is very easy to manipulate - as has been proven in the last week.
I agree with Binners.
Now, I'm off to watch my old friend Dom Raab on QT. He's exceptionally bright, hard-working and focused but if fellow Brexiters think he's a soft-hearted hug-a-hoodie Tory that will look after their communities they've got another thing coming.
And that is why the mainstream politicians stoking up racist views, to suit their ends, really are playing with fire. But they're too arrogant to realise that the nasty sentiments they're talking up won't be easily put back in their box.
The direction of travel we're presently heading in politically can not possibly end well. It's hateful! And we, as a nation, should be better than that!
ctk - Member
You don't have to be racist to be worried about the effect of 250k people coming to the country every year (but it helps)
I didn't vote but if I had it would have been out like most of my family and work mates voted..don't think any of them are racists. The people are fed up with the way this country is going, you might not see it or feel the impact in your areas but the people have spoken so accept it. All of a sudden there's a mass number of political experts on here and truth is nobody knows, might benefit you and others might suffer. But I find it utterly offensive the way the remainers are name calling and acting! 🙄
The Ref for Tories was about power at the top , they never expected the Leave to win . Now they are ****ed .
The Ref for Tories was about power at the top , they never expected the Leave to win . Now they are ****ed .
Without a doubt. I'm going to enjoy the squirming and back-pedalling.
Did you see the look on Goves and Borises faces at the press conference they finally reluctantly made? The last thing they wanted was this. And Dave has called their bluff to double their problems, by leaving them, not him, to activate article 50.
I do love the fact that our countries economic future has basically boiled down to a parlour game of one-upmanship with a bunch of over-privelidged ****s! While th Labour Party sits watching with its thumb up its arse!
Sixty kids in my daughters reception class due to mainly Polish intake, and I like the Poles. I didn't like the system that allowed this to happen on such a scale and so voted Leave.
What if there had been a baby boom 5 years ago and all these new kids had British parents? You'd be campaigning for more teachers, I expect.
So the difference is that these kids are *Polish*. They don't belong here - is that what you are saying?
The Tories weren't the only ones who didn't expect leave to win, Chris. Farrage said as much the night before and Labour were so convinced of a remain win they didn't really campaign against leave. Even those voting leave didn't expect leave to win on the tiny sample size of people I know. And they are all equally baisé(e)s
Corbyn deserves some credit. It's what he wanted and he played his part beautifully. Whether he can now capitalise on it will be interesting.
Corbyn is a bystander. He hasn't got the brains to cspitalise on anything. As today's resignations have shown, I'm not alone in this opinion
I didn't vote but if I had it would have been out like most of my family and work mates voted..don't think any of them are racists. The people are fed up with the way this country is going, you might not see it or feel the impact in your areas but the people have spoken so accept it
None of which will be solved by leaving the EU. If people wanted to give the politicians a kicking for being untrust worthy arseholds who, in general, don't care about you, they picked a ****ing stupid issue to chose to express their anger.
I am Welsh. I live in Wales. Wales is a big net beneficiary of EU cash. But Wales voted out. Lots of people cited immigration as a reason to vote out. But only around 2.6% of Wales' population was born outside of the UK. Yes there are areas with a localised polish contingent due to say a meat factory or similar but immigration hardly features here. Yet they still cited immigration as a reason to vote out. I wonder why?
I went to feed a friends cat thie weekend. She is away on hols - the friend not the cat. On the door mat was a leaflet from the leave campaign. A leaflet I had put to one side when I received it myself. This time I read it. It's Wales specific because it's in English and Cymreig. And.... there is was in black and white - immigration, Turkey, control of our borders, etc, etc. together with the £350 million/week claim..... And they say that remain was project fear.
they all created a hell of a mess .
Love le jeu de mot Edukator. 😆
Corbyn is a bystander.
I suspect he may end up one, but to go from nothing to opposition leader and help take us out of the EU at his age is mind-boggling.
I wonder who'll play him in the movie.
[quote=Edukator ]86% have currently voted oui to a rapid Brexit in the Figaro poll (I voted non). The political class is divided. Spiegel is reporting that the SPD want Britain out quickly but Merkel is standing on the brakes.
The longer it drags on the better IMO. You may remember I thought Cameron's speech "excellent".
Well thankfully that's the only place they get a vote, and it's not really up to anybody else in the EU how quickly we leave either - given the new political situation, the conviction with which we're being told to do it quickly should tell us all we need to know. Merkel seems the most sane person around (and I'm certainly including all UK politicians in that comparison).
Remind me, what did you think particularly excellent about CMD's speech - can't be bothered trawling back...
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037 ]BOJO WANTS TO INTENSIFY COOP WITH EU[/url]
I thought he wanted to tell them to F off??
Man is a clown.
If this Brexit does go through then at some point in time we are still going to have to sign up to the single market & pay. Only this time we really will have no input.
If you prefer to believe that this is the beginning of the end of the EU & will lead to it's break up then thank you for helping create the biggest global sh1t storm in the last 100 years. £2t off global markets, £120b off the FTSE, the pound at its lowest level in 25 years (?).......all done on your 1st day on the job!
Congratu****lations!
I can't wait to see what you achieve tomorrow???
Molgrips- I'm dealing with the situation that presents itself, and thats a school infrastructure that can't cope with the influx from EU immigrants above the numbers that the school normally deals with. If you think I should be fine with this then I suspect you're not a parent. Are you looking to slur me as a racist ?
is BJ on drug or something ?
apparently nothing is changing .
@ Thebees , how many are we talking about ?
round here classes are about 30 , so unless there were 30 poles , school should have opened another class anyway .
As somebody who mostly associates with university-educated 30-40 somethings and lives in a pleasant enough (Remain majority!) borough, almost *all* of the people I know (including my older and elderly relatives) appeared to be in favour of Remain.
The bookies seemed to be expecting a Remain win.
I was hopeful that Remain would win.
On Thursday lunch time, however, I headed to a large supermarket in the northern town where I work. I looked around at my mostly white fellow customers who appeared to be a mix of "classes" and had a sudden thought that leave might well win after all.
My circles of friends and colleagues are certainly not privileged and mostly not wealthy/well-off, but they are mostly educated, well-travelled, have some disposable income and know / work with people of different ethnicities and nationalities without any issues.
If I felt detached from the general public close to where I was brought up, then a bunch of high-flying politicians (especially the likes of Boris, but even Corbyn to some extent) must be like a different species to the working class folk of Northern England.
Persuading the down-trodden to vote to their own detriment to leave The EU -although the masses really should have looked into it more deeply, the info was out there- and then not be in a desperate rush to leave the "awful" EU (because it isn't actually that awful?) and not appear to have a plan in place for leaving is just clever manipulation with an amatuerish Follow-up that has resulted in a mess and a potentially terrible outcome
I think it is time for a police investigation into the whole sorry affair. Some of these politicians (starting with Boris) should be prosecuted for what they've caused, and for what? Nothing by the looks of it.
Boris really didn't want to win it did he? First Dave completely miscalculates calling the referendum & then Boris leads a campaign he doesn't actually believe in. These boys are good! What a cock up.
I can't wait to see what you achieve tomorrow???
Dont PANIC George is back tomorrow he says to give us all a statement and make us feel warm and secure.
thebees - a class of 60 is not a great situation. Do you think the austerity measures might have had as much to do with it as the immigrants though? Supply as well as demand?
I understand you wanted to kick out, I just question the direction given all the figures I've seen have suggested immigration helps us pay for more services generally, while creating some pinch pints such as the one you describe.
I think you've been let down by your council and Westminster- not Brussels (or was it Strasbourg?)
Take back control! They kept saying, and now it seems they have no clue what they are doing.
What if there had been a baby boom 5 years ago and all these new kids had British parents? You'd be campaigning for more teachers, I expect.
In that case, wouldn't there have been a full five five years advance warning to put enough resources in place, train teachers, build schools etc.?
So. We are back to immigration talk. Local schools can't cope with an influx of people. People who are working and contributing to the economy. Should we get rid of the people or make the schools bigger?
Is it the people who we should blame? Or the inadequate planning and service provision?
How do we solve the problem? Stop workers coming by leaving the EU and all that entails... or adapt the services to suit demand?
Lots of people cited immigration as a reason to vote out. But only around 2.6% of Wales' population was born outside of the UK. Yes there are areas with a localised polish contingent due to say a meat factory or similar but immigration hardly features here. Yet they still cited immigration as a reason to vote out. I wonder why?
Maybe they've seen whats happened in other places, English cities etc. and thought 'lets stop this before it happens here'?
But a couple of million Syrians rock up in Germany in six months and somehow their children get taught, Ninfan. Where there's a will... .
BoJo, the complete text:
Nowhere on the ballot paper did it say it was a vote against immigration.
The leave campaign said it, but it was a pack of lies. UKIP are not in power. Immigration won't change.
Cant do links , but N Surgeon tweet about Dc and GO in hiding , Leave campaign with no plan , sums it up quite well .
But a couple of million Syrians rock up in Germany in six months and somehow their children get taught, Ninfan. Where there's a will... .
Yep, hasn't created any problems or bad feeling there has it?
Corbyn deserves some credit
The funniest thing I've read so far....in a tragic sense!
Did you see the look on Goves and Borises faces at the press conference they finally reluctantly made? The last thing they wanted was this. And Dave has called their bluff to double their problems, by leaving them, not him, to activate article 50.I do love the fact that our countries economic future has basically boiled down to a parlour game of one-upmanship with a bunch of over-privelidged ****s! While th Labour Party sits watching with its thumb up its arse!
This. Sad but so true.
Edukator, you seem a bit naive on the subject of Syrian integration in Germany. It's a ****storm over there !
Gordon Brewer put it well this morning on the Scotland politics show.
"Bismarck once said man cannot control the current of events, he can only float with them and steer.David Cameron has proved this adage wrong by creating the current,steering the country onto the rocks and then jumping ship, leaving others to work out how and where the country goes next"
[quote=ninfan ]Maybe they've [s]seen[/s] fallen for the propaganda about whats happened in other places, English cities etc. and thought 'lets stop this before it happens here'?
It wasn't only the angry poor who wanted to leave.
I happen to know that a lot of comfortably-off old people (mostly men) in a fairly posh, almost entirely white British, Cheshire village voted to Leave the EU. They were quite triumphant and light-hearted about the result.
The reasons seemed very wrong, superficial and simplistic to me. There was no thought given to the economy or the future, just getting one over on "Europe", "immigration"/racism and "350 million pounds a week"
David Cameron has proved this adage wrong by creating the current,steering the country onto the rocks and then jumping ship, leaving others to work out how and where the country goes next"
Its almost supervillain esque
i wonder what he will do next, my money is on something in the EU
[quote=cchris2lou ]Cant do links , but N Surgeon tweet about Dc and GO in hiding , Leave campaign with no plan , sums it up quite well .
I liked this one
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She certainly seems to be the only one raising to the challenge of this mess .
