A compassionate bunch these Brexiteers.
I'll make no further comment. You're making my point for me....
if you think Britain is racist now you should have seen what it was like being a kid in the 70s.
That included the teachers too!
Well that's ok then. We're not as bad as 1970? Job done then. The benchmark we've all longed for. Is that because we don't call them ****s and ****'s any more? At least not in public. Or is there more to it than that?
Oh... and I was a kid in the 1970's. So ... been there, done that
A compassionate bunch these Brexiteers.I'll make no further comment. You're making my point for me....
Argued like a true Brexite(e)r. 😉
Actually, seriously, I see no reason to undermine the seriousness of the occasion by conflating your friends experience with Berlin in 1933. There is no similarity, but arguing that there is just confuses and inflames the situation. Ill founded statements and beliefs are what got us into this mess, and the stuff you've just said isn't going to help.
Is it really?
16million voted remain. Yet remain voters focus on 'only 17.4m voted leave so it can't be right'. Would 16million be right to ignore or overturn a democratic vote? No.
I've been called a few names over the past few weeks. I've not risen to any of this and one lad prompted my partner to intervene. I think all sides should look at their conduct but I find it especially sad when narrow minded thought, invective and bile is aimed at another just because he has a different viewpoint to you.
Instead of the 'I heard a story of a mate who heard from one person's experience' we should focus on being positive, look ahead now and stop being increasingly bitter. As I get older I've realised that the press exists to stir negativity, put a negative angle and spin on all reporting whilst only reporting half the facts to create a clear to palete story. There's alot of trolling going on in the press at the moment. We'd be better off not reading any news articles for a while.
Peace to all. We are all in this for the journey and full duration.
I do apologise. A newly emboldened gang of right wing facists is just fine
Sorry.
Shall I wave my little Union Jack now? I've been dying too. I'm so chuffed we're 'Taking Back Control'. It's all very exciting! When do we get to send them all back?
I think all sides should look at their conduct but I find it especially said when narrow minded thought, invective and bile is aimed at another just because he has a different viewpoint to you.
I think its worse when its just because someone is another nationality.
if you think Britain is racist now you should have seen what it was like being a kid in the 70s.
That included the teachers too!
Perhaps binners, like me, had hoped that we had moved on further than we obviously have.
It has not been pretty - but that is why freedom of speech is important. It much better to know exactly where people stand. And we have a much clearer view of the society in which we live as a result of this referendum.
yes on the receiving end of racism both back in the 70s and even now .. funny how most people think its black and asian people that suffer racism and any one else is ok just because we dont make a song and dance about it. Interesting how even now racist views from the 70s are still present and highlighted by binners
jambalaya
As an aside his native Poland is far less accepting of immigrants and refugees than is this country
This was the case I discovered speaking to one of my colleagues, which is exactly why in my opinion not only Britian suffers but also Europe. The free movement of people in the EU had allowed us a greater understanding of the people and culture of Eastern Europe as well as showing them how tolerant and accepting we were. Sadly any potential immigrants from these countries won't get to experience the UK's tolerance.
On UKIP's breaking point poster and the press again, it's like a centipede with many hundreds of bearded human heads. This centipede is here to take your job in its 'deperation' for a quick buck to pay for razor blades and shaving foam. It will slump into your hard earned hospital bed when its many legs breaks down, and its great many offspring will sit at the school chair filling their brains with the knowledge previously destined for your child by birthright.
All the 'leftie' press could reply with to this onslaught, was a description of who these people are, where they are, and why the are there. Shocking.
Numbness has passed since Friday, and am now feeling appalled and shocked quite frankly.
John Pilger on why Britain voted for Brexit and why it might be a good thing.
[url= http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-british-said-no-to-europe ]Linky[/url]
Blames everyone
The more that I think about this and read about it, the more confident I am that we won't activate Article 50.
- no Tory PM will want to go down as the one who broke the Union and restarted the Troubles (I love that euphemism)
- the Establishment will not tolerate anything that harms their country based on just 1 million (1/65th of the population) votes from Daz and Shazz in Dudley and Burnley. There are big names coming out against Brexit, and when the only people congratulating you on your victory are Sarah Palin, Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen, the writing's on the wall.
- no government is going to make a call of this magnitude based on a 4% majority. There will be an election, after enough time that the muppets who voted Out will have reconsidered.
- there are too many loopholes: the referendum is non-binding; there might be a new mandate from an almost inevitable general election (given the ongoing leadership contests); there might be a parliamentary vote; an EU leader (such as Merkel - make no mistake, the elected leaders don't want us to go, regardless of what the bureaucrats might say) might offer face-saving concessions.
And if none of that happens, all I have to say to the Leavers is: you stupid ****ing fools.
Numbness has passed since Friday, and am now feeling appalled and shocked quite frankly.
+1
My god. Did someone just actually respond to a story about a gang of kids bullying an individual by blaming the parents for not arming him with the correct debating points in return?
Asides from the utter halfwittery behind that comment, what do you think would have happened had the kids answered them back confidently? Most likely they would have kicked the shit out of him as that is what thugs do when words don't work.
Over the next few weeks I can also see the police getting incredibly pissed off with having to deal with shit like this day in day out.
Sorry, Brexiters, time to face up to the elements in our society that you have courted and are now desperately back-pedaling away from. The sheer cynicism behind the Leave campaign has been breath-taking. Farage has paraded himself to all the old farts who would have voted BNP, but didn't like being associated with 'that sort'. Now Farage has done a passable impersonation of the 'right sort of chap' they had someone they could get behind without looking overtly racist at the golf club.
My god. Did someone just actually respond to a story about a gang of kids bullying an individual by blaming the parents for not arming him with the correct debating points in return?
Asides from the utter halfwittery behind that comment, what do you think would have happened had the kid answered them back confidently? Most likely they would have kicked the shit out of him as that is what thugs do when words don't work.
Over the next few weeks I can also see the police getting incredibly pissed off with having to deal with shit like this day in day out.
Sorry, Brexiters, time to face up to the elements in our society that you have courted and are now desperately back-pedaling away from. The sheer cynicism behind the Leave campaign has been breath-taking. Farage has paraded himself to all the old farts who would have voted BNP, but didn't like being associated with 'that sort'. Now Farage has done a passable impersonation of the 'right sort of chap' they had someone they could get behind without looking overtly racist at the golf club.
There is a lot of chatter about Brexit but not Brexit. See article below.
We might end up with soft Brexit with keeping the UK together trumping the hardline leavers. If there was enough restriction on movement for parliament to keep the leavers happy.
Who knows bit of a cliffhanger this whole malarkey. One would hope they been yakking to each and their counterparts while citizens anxiously chew their fingernails.
@corroded the insults are pretty boring. The EU is financially bust, its anti-democratic, its corrupt, it exists to frustrate international trade. No thanks we are far better off out.
@binners immigration has accelerated markedly. I went back some time ago and looked at the census going back 40 years (only 5 documents of course). Immigration has accelerated markedly and especially since Poland joined the EU. The number of Poles now outnumbers the previous #1 country India, so in 10 years we've had more Polish than 100 years of immigration from India. I found before that in 2001 Poles didn't really feature and by 2011 they where the #1 nation. See how much has changed in 2013/14 where EU started outsripping non-EU (I mean thats the whole rest of the world). This is why its an issue, its the numbers and the pace and the trend.
Finally let me be clear I have no issue with the Poles at all but they are there as an example.
In 2014, 1 in 8 (13.0%) of the usual resident population of the UK were born abroad. This compares to 1 in 11 (8.9%) in 2004
There was a statistically significant increase in the non-UK born population of the UK between 2013 and 2014. The non-UK born population increased from 7,921,000 to 8,277,000 (an increase of 4.5%)
In 2014, 1 in 12 (8.4%) of the usual resident population of the UK had non-British nationality. This compares to 1 in 20 (5.0%) in 2004
There was a statistically significant increase in the non-British national population of the UK between 2013 and 2014. The non-British national population increased from 4,987,000 to 5,344,000 (an increase of 7.2%)
The number of usual residents in the UK that held EU nationality (excluding British) was higher than those that held non-EU nationality (2,938,000 compared to 2,406,000) for the second year in a row – prior to 2013 this had not occurred since the Annual Population Survey began in 2004
India is the most common non-UK country of birth in 2014. An estimated 793,000 usual residents of the UK were born in India (9.6% of the total non-UK born population resident in the UK)
Polish is the most common non-British nationality in 2014. An estimated 853,000 usual residents of the UK have Polish nationality (16.0% of the total number of non-British nationals resident in the UK)
[url= http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/populationbycountryofbirthandnationalityreport/2015-09-27 ]UK Census Summary - Country of Birth[/url]
If there was enough restriction on movement for parliament to keep the leavers happy.
@ff If the EU had offered some real change in the pre-Referendum negotiations on free movement that alone could have made a difference but they did not, I personally would have wanted much more but I suspect free movement reform would have got the result to 52/48 the other way
@jambalaya - why don't you come back when you can spell a simple word like 'fierce'?
jambalaya - Member
Facts appear to disinterest you, and most of those who voted leave.
You win today's head in the sand award, which is quite an achievement I have to say as the competiton was fearce.
Now that we finally have some links, where in the documents used as sources does it mention "many millions of Poles"?
Finally let me be clear I have no issue with the Poles at all but they are there as an example.
Smacks of 'I'm not racist but..' What about the 300,000 French people in London? I'd bet that they contribute more to our society in terms of taxes and pastries than 300,000 northern Brexiters. Judging people by the flag that's in their passport is a slippery slope. If we have to judge people's merit (and I don't think we do) then I'd rather judge them on their contribution to Britain. Which would put most Poles and Frenchies ahead of Brexiters.
I haven't actually met many of these Poles who are everywhere, but the ones I did meet seemed like nice people.
You've no issue with Poles. All sounds s bit....
Yip, utterly shameless.dannyh - Member
My god. Did someone just actually respond to a story about a gang of kids bullying an individual by blaming the parents for not arming him with the correct debating points in return?
Racists be racismin'
While maintaining they're not racists, but.....
Polish immigration is nothing new. My father-in-law spent much of WWII on the run and eventually ended up with the British army in Italy before being demobbed with TB in a desolate camp in Yorkshire. He couldn't return to Poland as the soviets were in power - his father died shortly after release from a Soviet prison having been imprisoned for having served with the Polish military. His friend flew in the battle of Britain (Google 303 polish squadron). He lived most of his life under an invented identity going as far as making an incognito visit to family in communist Poland in the 70s taking his kids including my wife.
He spoke German and enjoyed speaking the language with my son and I, spoke French too and loved visiting us in France. In retirement he worked for Amnesty International. He knew as much as any man can about wars, borders, iron curtains and secret police. Our generation has had peace and freedom handed to us on a plate. I'm thankful he can't read this thread.
From a few pages back, but I've been off the forum and it probably deserves an answer:
[quote=duckman ]Aracer, are there examples of the sort of alliance I mentioned? I am sure there must be one or two in the EU.
in reply to:
[quote=aracer ]
duckman » What stops us having trade agreements with both England,and the EU?
Nothing at all if you're totally independent - I thought you wanted to be an EU member though and that was the whole point?
No, I don't think there are any examples of that sort of thing, because one of the fundamentals of the EU is that the EU has trade agreements with countries outside the EU, individual countries within the EU don't have their own trade agreements. Hence the lack of UK civil service lawyers with experience in trade agreements, and what I consider to be one positive argument for leaving - that we can set up better trade deals with Commonwealth countries for example. Feel free to try and find an example - I'm not wasting my time on what I expect to be a fruitless search!
It doesn't really come as surprise, but certain contributors on this thread are revealing their true colours & it is a pretty nauseating spectacle.
Blimey??!! This thread is still alive?! ... thought we've moved on. Enough with the butthurt and focus on whats ahead rather looking back 3days ago. Shaping Britain back is not an overnight fix.
We ARE focusing on what's ahead...!
Indeed imnotverygood. But what I've been gobsmacked by, along with many others, is just how many of them there are
I haven't read much of this thread, but I am going to post up what I am going to keep repeating, for every leave voter=stupid post either here or on other social media, which I see:
Although I voted remain, I can't agree with the tone of this and the statements alluding that leave voters opinions are somehow less worthy than we remainers are. They have been lied to and misled. Leave voters do tend to come from different, less privileged backgrounds, than remainers have tended to be lucky enough to enjoy. We remainers need to understand that deprivation and an unrepresentative political system are very clearly, the source of many issues. It is a massive mistake for remain campaigners to see themselves as somehow superior. This will only deepen social divisions. To avoid sorry events such as this in the future, we need to be supporting disadvantaged communities a lot, lot more. We have not been doing this up until now and I myself have failed to stand up for the rights of those who are less fortunate than myself. I am very, very sorry for this. Our country is now paying the price.
Although I voted remain, I can't agree with the tone of this and the statements alluding that leave voters opinions are somehow less worthy than we remainers are. They have been lied to and misled.
They were lied to but couldn't be arsed to fact-check. Hell mend them.
Listening to some german minster on bbc world service. Seems the germans are very relaxed about this and are willing wait until the internal wrangling settles, I'm really hoping, the brexiters are proven as utter bunkem and another ref or early general election is called.
I think they are also hoping that's the ultimate conclusion too. They are aware this is bad for everyone. The French seem less patient.
[i]They were lied to but couldn't be arsed to fact-check. Hell mend them.[/i]
Did you check all the remain facts? I didn't.
How does your attitude help?
It doesn't really come as surprise, but certain contributors on this thread are revealing their true colours & it is a pretty nauseating spectacle.
@binners is changing his 🙂
I've lost count of the number of times he has railed against the political classes and the "Islington/metropolitan elite" who are so out of touch with ordinary people.Now the ordinary people have spoken...
going now. byyeeeeeeee!
You don't have to be racist to be worried about the effect of 250k people coming to the country every year (but it helps)
I think we need all this out in the open. The Brexit campaign hasn't turned people into xenophobes or racists. The right wing media and right wing of politics has been drip feeding people with racist shit for years. Divide and rule.
What this whole debacle stands for is the abject failure of mainstream politics. If we had a system that in any way, shape or form represented the actual concerns of real people over the last couple of decades, rather than the interests of big business, and a privileged elite, then we certainly wouldn't be where we are now.
It's all been shit! But the direction we're heading in now, with mainstream politicians lending legitimatacy to some pretty nasty right wing bigotry, because it temporarily suits their self-interested agendas is a new low
2 things.
We have to move forward - we can't stay where we are right now and unless there's some kind of Lazarene resurrection, we aren't going back. But that shouldn't stop us from analyzing how we got here (and I don't mean the promises made as part of the campaigns, i mean the social meltdown that has caused a significant proportion of people feel that we are better off without the benefits of the EU in order to deal with the problems they see in our country)
And in order to move forward we need the best politicians and negotiators from all sides to quickly settle differences and work out a route forward. I'm still sore about the result, as many of the Remain campaigners must be. But whether the result of the vote comes about because of a proportion of voters cutting off their noses to spite their faces or genuine logical decision making; if the Remain camp now get the arse and refuse to be involved, then they'll be doing the same, and the country will lose twice over. And then we'll definitely be ****ed.
Carney's showing the path forward - we all need to take a leaf from his book; he must feel he's been given a shit hand, but he'll play it to the best of his ability.
You don't have to be racist to be worried about the effect of 250k people coming to the country every year (but it helps)
Net migration from the EU in 2015 was 184000, net migration from the by UK citizens was -39,000. In terms of EU migration then we're at about half that number. Net migration from out with the EU was 373,000. I can see with Leave are now trying to back pedal on the immigration front....
86% have currently voted oui to a rapid Brexit in the Figaro poll (I voted non). The political class is divided. Spiegel is reporting that the SPD want Britain out quickly but Merkel is standing on the brakes.
The longer it drags on the better IMO. You may remember I thought Cameron's speech "excellent".
