Has anyone mentioned treason yet?
Naive about what's happening in Germany, thebees? You're accusing the wrong man. Ich weiss besser was in Deutschland geschieht als in UK, und auch was in Deutschland besser läuft als in UK.
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Right. **** this. We're ALL up shit creek and we need a paddle. Now, not in three months.
Fellow Remain voters: Enough already. Yes, we're all pissed off but navel gazing ain't gonna help. Not all 17 million Leave voters can possibly be racist northern pensioners without an O level to their name. Maybe they have a point about this quitting the EU thing? Maybe not. Whatever, we are where we are and no amount a whinging is gonna change that. Allegedly we're the intelligent ones, so get your thinking caps on.
Leave voters. Well done. Good game. We hear you. Now you need to get stuck in to the aftermath and not just piss off back to Wetherspoons. (Just banter, ****s!). And the first person to say they "want their country back" gets deported to ****ing Gibraltar. OK?
Politicians.
David. **** off. Shut the door behind you. Now.
George. You may be a **** but you're our ****. Plus you know the passwords for our Junior Savers account. Get your calculator. Drop the face-like-a-slapped-ass routine. You're on.
Boris. Sorry mate. That photo of you abseiling by your scrotum over the London Olympics while waving a Union Jack can't ever be un-taken. Plus, you'll never be able to appear on Question Time again without some sturdy Glaswegian nurse asking where the **** her 350 million quid is. Not only will she have a very good point, she'll be wearing a T shirt that shows you gurning in front of that ****ing bus! No captains hat for you I'm afraid.
Theresa. You're in charge love. Get the biggest shoulder pads you've got. We need Ming The Merciless in drag and you'll scare the shit out of 'em.
Nicola. Yep. Fair cop. You probably could get us on a technicality, as could London. But we ****ing love shortbread. And oil. And to be honest you're probably the best politician we've got, so we need you on side. Sort your lot out and we promise never to mention that Jimmy Krankie thing again (although it is pretty uncanny) and we'll make you a Dame once we're sorted. Bring Ruth Davidson. She kicks ass.
Opposition party. We'll need one. Someone take Jeremy and John back to the British Legion Club where you found them. Take Nigel as well. Give back their sandals, buy them a pint, then go to Heathrow and collect David Milliband. **** it. Lets gets Ed Balls as well. He keeps George on his toes. I think he works on the lottery kiosk at Morrisons now?
Oh. And Mark Carney. Give him a knighthood and tell him to keep that shit coming. We definitely need more of that good shit!
Everyone set? Right. Hold the Easyjet. We're going to Brussels and this ain't no hen party.
#weneedaplan Share!
A little something doing the rounds on FB.
I posted this on facebook a couple of weeks ago. Re-reading it in the aftermath of the anti immigration bile and hatred from the past couple of days makes me very sad
Some pretty grim talk about around the EU stuff about immigrants, and how bad immigration is. Reminds me of a story…Sometime around 1947 a young man, about 16 years old, left his home country. In his home country he faced poverty, religious persecution and what was basically civil war. Some of his friends had already made the journey and one of them wrote him a letter saying they had arrived safely. The letter encouraged him to make the journey too as his friend told him there was work available there.
With very little money to his name, the young man had to find some to afford the journey. He only had one possession of any value which was a three wheeled bicycle. He sold it to someone in his village and then had the money to make the journey overseas to join his friends.
Despite suffering from pneumonia at the time, he made the journey overseas in search of a better life. Arriving in the new country, he had nowhere to stay so he spent his first night alone, sleeping in a field.
The country he arrived in had already experienced a big influx of migrants from his home country, and he was viewed with suspicion because of his nationality and religion, often suffering discrimination or abuse.
Despite that he set about making a new life for himself in his new home, finding work and somewhere to stay. After some time he met a local girl and soon they were married. Over the years they had 8 children. The man worked hard to provide for them all. After many years of hard work he had his own business, employing family and locals in his adopted home. His children grew up, grandchildren were born, the family expanded.After many years the man decided to return to his home country where he lived out the rest of his years. Some of his children remained in his adopted country, some accompanied their parents back to their father's home.
If it wasn’t for that young man making that journey back in 1947, I probably wouldn’t be here today. That young man was my grandfather.
It pains me to see such negative views on immigration particularly when the “facts” used to castigate immigration are often completely untrue or misunderstood. Mostly it’s around money and benefits with the misconception that migrants are bleeding the country dry. In fact, based on recent figures, of the 5.3 million people claiming benefits in the UK, 93% of the claimants were British. The statistics show without any doubt whatsoever, that migrants contribute far more to the economy than they take out.
Hating or distrusting someone because they’re foreign, speak a different language, have a different skin colour, worship a different pretend man in the sky from you just seems absurd to me. We’re all human beings, plain and simple. The opportunities we give to EU immigrants here in the UK, are also available to you if you wanted to move within the EU. So for example tomorrow morning you could decide to pack up and move to Spain without a single issue. No forms to fill in, no permission to ask, no barriers at all. Maybe it’s just me but I think that’s a fantastic thing. You can buy a home, get a job, start a family etc with no problem. All possible because we’re part of the EU.
Is the EU perfect? Absolutely not, but show me this mythical perfect utopia that people seem to think exists elsewhere or could exist? The economic and social opportunities afforded to us by the EU more than outweigh any negatives.
binners - Member
And that is why the mainstream politicians stoking up racist views, to suit their ends, really are playing with fire. But they're too arrogant to realise that the nasty sentiments they're talking up won't be easily put back in their box.
I hope that you are wrong binners, but fear that you may be right.
Add to that the sheer scale of the lies and deceit that has characterised this and the Scottish referendum and you see the complete contempt that these guys have for those they are supposed to serve. It really is truly shameful.
[and to think that some folk want them more involved in running the economy and our lives 😉 ]
I didn't expect the back pedalling to start [i]quite[/i] that quickly!
I bet gideons been on one hell of bender.
I just watched the QT EU special. It seemed to me that my mate Dom Raab and UKiP's Paul Nuttall rather floundered. While Anna Soubry came out of it pretty well: regardless of their nationality, whoever contributes something positive to our society is OK with me. The Leavers don't seem to have grasped this.
ninfan - MemberBut a couple of million Syrians rock up in Germany in six months and somehow their children get taught, Ninfan. Where there's a will... .
Yep, hasn't created any problems or bad feeling there has it?
as you may know I'm in Germany and have been for over 8 years.
i've been sat on trains travelling from Vienna to Munich that have been delyed by hours due to the refugee crisis. i've been sat in 3 hour long queues at the Austrian/German border due to checks. i've read reports about what happened in Köln and elsewhere. i've heard first hand about the situation in the refugee homes from people that have worked there.
Merkel's handling of the situation was less than ideal.
yet here in the south at least, there is a majority of people that still have sympathy for and want to help the refugees. and personally i would rather have a family from Syria living next door than some right wing neo-nazis.
i find the whole referendum thing sad. i felt like shit on friday morning.
i fear for the cultural well-being of not just the UK, but the rest of Europe.
[quote=ninfan ]
What if there had been a baby boom 5 years ago and all these new kids had British parents? You'd be campaigning for more teachers, I expect.
In that case, wouldn't there have been a full five five years advance warning to put enough resources in place, train teachers, build schools etc.?
Primary schools are struggling for places around here, where there aren't many immigrants (a dozen or so who aren't white British at our school - it's now slightly less monocultural than it was, which I consider a good thing). Don't blame immigrants for a lack of planning.
Our village school was oversubscribed from within the catchment this year, mostly I think due to all the white British incomers to the new build houses #bloodyimmigrants
the only person more pleased by this result than Farage is ninfan he will be trolling the hell out you all for months on this
nick1962 - Member
Phew!
Sarcasm aside nick, eu funding for that kind of thing creates jobs in the uk, not to mention spin off benefits such as increased tourism and the knock on effect of other productions being filmed in the UK. All positives.
the only person more pleased by this result than Farage is ninfan he will be trolling the hell out you all for months on this
I have to disagree Junky, I can't imagine @ninfan is anywhere nearly as pleased as me.
1m of any new nationality arriving within 10 years and thus becoming the number 1 nationality from virtually no where is too many too fast in particular in a time of economic stress. Of course Poles have been coming here to live for a long time as have Indians, ****stanis, Jamacans etc. Sadly this reaction to the level and type of immigration was very predictable, I've been warning on here of it for 4 years now. If a government is granting visas and the population does not approve they can vote on the matter, when its out of our hands its quite something else.
Stuart, Gove and Boris where very controlled at the press conference, statesmen like was the description used by the press. No need to gloat or be triumphant about a stunning victory, in fact to do so would have been counterproductive.
As for motives this was not about internal Tory manouvering, Boris would almost certainly imo have been the Tory leader in 2019 anyway, Osbourne has no carisma. This referendum was about the EU, it's totally crap and we recognised that.
@alpin the other problem you have in Germany is that, what, 40% of the refugees are from Syria. The German government has already said no one from Afghanistan will qualify for asylum and had to pay people to leave. Then you have all the Moroccans, Tunisians etc a number of who you have tried to deport but their country won't take them back.
@Edukator we don't really care what the French (quick exit) or Germans (slower exit) want. Its up to is to decide, Cameron has already said it's the next PM's decison so that's October at the very very earliest and more like Dec 16 as the soonest or possibly even another year or two. Merkel and Hollande will meet on Monday, lets see what's actually said. I am dreaming of a good slap for Junker in the form of warm words from Merkel, she has a lot to lose from a bumpy exit. There will also be the matter of the €13bn hole in the EU budget if we leave without a trade deal, in any case the EU is going to be getting far less revenue and thats going to have to be amde up by the likes of France and Germany
it's totally crap and we recognised that
The EU isn't perfect but it is, to any rational observer, vastly better than the alternative.
A nice gentlemanly stroll towards Brexit sounds great, but the longer it takes to start negotiations the longer uncertainty continue and the more business here stagnates . Don't get me wrong we need to get, this stuff done right, but, 2 years is an impossibly short time to unlock 43 years of shared laws, trade, regulations and partnerships
There's huge panic already in the science sector as to how we will fill the funding shortfall from EU grants. I can't imagine any new ones being awarded until our final status is decided, will the government step in to help out in the meantime? I know there is real concern at the Sanger centre and the EBI, people want to know if they'd be better just moving to Heidelberg to garuantee the funding
I know there is real concern at the Sanger centre and the EBI, people want to know if they'd be better just moving to Heidelberg to garuantee the funding
And with the nice stroll/sweat um approach to getting out it will just set in stone some of the moves. Even if the UK gets favourable terms for this stuff nobody will still be there to take it.
Warning ecomonoic and expert content
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36636853
Sterling was trading at $1.3440, down more than 2% from Friday's close. Against the euro it was trading at €1.2165, down 1.3%.
His statement comes amid forecasts of further falls for the pound.
Jeremy Cook, chief economist at World First, said: "We are still looking for another 10% fall for the pound against the dollar in the coming months as data confirms the economic slowdown and monetary policy expectations increase."
The pound fell further against the yen on Monday, a currency considered to be a safe haven, to 137.16 yen - down from about 139.64.
The trading week has started, I assume nobody thought it was a good idea to get in front of cameras on Sunday night to try and inject some sort of calm into the situation and layout some sort of plan...
3 more months of this?
The people are fed up with the way this country is going,
And that's quite understandable. But it also has **** all to do with the EU.
However, from the way VL carried on, I can see how they might have been misled into thinking it did.
@zokes it amuses me that as I have no clue, idiot, ... Insert insot of choice here ... I keep popping up on the "winning side" even on the Referendum where I though institutional support and resistance to change would me a Remain victory
You don't have to be clever to be a winner in this referendum. In actuality if the poles that separated voting intent by education, social group, age, etc. were anything to go by, sadly they point to quite the opposite. But do carry on...
1) No budget contribution, zero - if EU won't budge we'll go with full tariffs and make a profit
Make a profit from reduced trade, reduced production, reduced profits. Interesting concept. Perhaps you should contact all these countries trying to come up with free trade agreements that don't even come close to offering what the EU offered us and let them know where they're going wrong
2) No ECJ jurisdiction over anything except EU specific trade, freedom to set taxes and regulations, freedom to agree trade deals with who we like
But still an unelected head of state, unelected house of Lords, and a minority elected lower house, which would govern [i]every[/i] law in the country. Laws including, funnily enough, the one that says parliament doesn't have to take a blind bit of notice of the advisory referendum we've just had. Yay for British democracy.
Oh, and of course anything that contravenes the ECHR, ICJ, or any jurisdiction's system that might have a clause in any trade agreement. So that would still be the ECJ for much of our trade then.
Also, we already had freedom to set taxes and regulations.
3) We may chose to incease immigration, eg tech savvy IT bods from India and China to boost our tech sector (compare us pound for pound with Isreal whcih kicks @rse in that area)
[i]INCREASE[/i] immigration? I thought this was about reducing immigration. Immigration is the cause of all our woes mmmkay. At least that's what VL were having us believe until about 72 hours ago...
4) Focus on tech, as an aside productivity will likely fall in traditional industries as wages rise
What if "tech" focuses on the EU? And how will wages rise in a recession. You truly are an economic genius.
5) See 6
So, you can't answer it then?
6) Focusing on high growth regions of the world rather than the corpse that EU will beome post Greek default and contagion. EU markets already down more than the UK as investors realise its more of a problem for them than us
So, the high growth regions of the world that has said they are more interested in completing trade deals with the EU than a non-EU UK? And in the mean time being under prohibitive WTO rules that will enforce tariffs and stifle trade.
Basically, as I said, you don't have a clue. None of the above is scaremongering, it's facts. Not Jamby-facts either, actual facts.
and as I know Jamby is such a fan of the view from the RoW here is a very balanced piece from the ABC today
That sense of powerlessness now threatens to overwhelm the positives of globalisation and free trade; such as cheaper consumer goods and higher global living standards.Cars, clothes and almost every conceivable consumer item are now better and far cheaper in real terms than they were in the "good old days". What has gone backwards is job security, and employment itself.
Turning inwards, however, will not solve the problem. The textile mills, the car plants, the coal mines and the ship building won't return to England's north nor to Wales, unless wages drop to such alarming levels that it becomes worthwhile for major global firms to shift back.
For that to happen, there would need to be a sustained deterioration in the UK economy and living standards. That could be entirely possible in the future. And so it will be the younger generation - which voted overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU - that ultimately will bear the cost of the xenophobic pipedreams sold to their parents by cynical politicians.
The simple fact is, there is no way back. The dramatic improvements in communications technology and transport - that have increased the mobility of now even skilled jobs - can't be unwound. The forces that have been unleased cannot be restrained.
Last week's decision creates significant problems for Australia's future. Aside from the ructions on global markets, we will certainly feel the chill winds from the UK's new isolationist policy.
...
Australia sees the UK as its gateway to Europe, one of the world's most important trading blocs. That now will have to be reassessed.The pound - which plummeted 12 per cent on Friday - will be permanently weakened by its exit from Europe. That will result in a dramatic drop in income for any Australian company or individual that has invested there. Similarly, UK firms will have less money to invest here.
The disaster that was inflicted on an unsuspecting world last week will undermine the prospects for an already weak global economy and have a particularly harsh impact on Australia.
Maybe now is the time to consider jettisoning the UK relationship altogether. After all, we have a Prime Minister who once led the movement for an Australian republic. He could make it a captain's call.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-27/verrender-brexit-will-deliver-a-few-home-truths/7545338
Of course I expect it's all wrong and just scaremongering by whoever is the bad guy today
Aracer; that's fine, that's what I wanted to know. We will still be off if that OK.
So, it seems we have a plan:
BoJo on the BBC:
PT1)
[i]"There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment.
"EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.
"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI - the BDI - has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
[/i]
PT2)
[i]"The only change - and it will not come in any great rush - is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal."[/i]
No exact clarity on how he expects to get (1) without (2) mind you, no mention of cost, and it seems that scary foreigners will still be able to come and live in the UK. So what exactly was the purpose of this again?
and on with the obscure references...
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Glad thats all cleared up then, lets see what the markets thought of that then
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36636853 ]Pound falls further in Asian trading on Monday[/url]
I have no idea what everyone was so worried about
No, zokes, it's better than that - well be able to come and go as we please in Europe, but we'll have a points based immigration system to keep out the foreigners! We'll also have all the trading benefits of membership, without the fee or rules.
Utterly delusional.
Is this really the best the tories can come up with?
Oh and just to check...
As anything BoJo etc said during the campaign was purely aspirational and in effect just non-policy thought bubbles that should not have been taken too seriously. What are we meant to think of what he is saying now, with what capacity does he speak? Does he have the authority to make claims like this? Who does he represent?
I think we should know before even entertaining his ideas
It's his manifesto for the tory party leadership election.
yes but are we sure, he might just change his mind again...
Glad Osbourne has decided to stay and work through it. We need him now, more than ever!
"there's no great rush to leave the EU" according to Boris.
No sh*t.
Maybe there shouldn't have been a single question on it thrown out to the masses then.
Well lets see what the audiance says on that bombshell
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=12h
[url= http://www.plus500.com.au/Instruments/UK100?gclid=CjwKEAjw-r27BRCzsNyzrMrM-j0SJACp2TiBmXq2x_Elo0ZhQ0cAS0DISr0ae0HrSKsaCiPtHZL9TBoCpfnw_wcB ]FTSE[/url]
The real, important question is: when to buy my Canadian currency? I'm thinking as soon as possible.
So the only thing that's going to change is the occupant of number 10?
It's almost as if that the most cynical, power-crazed egotist in the country was only ever really concerned about that, and nothing else.
So Brexiteers.... To quote John Lydon: " ever had the feeling you've been cheated?" 😆
Interesting that Boris is now suggesting retention of large amounts of our integration with Europe and that being in for a lot of stuff is a good thing.
Firstly seems like dreamland, secondly did those who voted leave really vote for that?
It looks like bojo is still keen on removing human rights, at least he will keep one promise.
Firstly seems like dreamland, secondly did those who voted leave really vote for that?
If many people can use the [b]EU[/b] ref to answer a different question(s) ... not least to stick two fingers up at the establishment
Maybe the establishment will reciprocate .... and use the result to answer a different question than [b]EU[/b] vote ?
So what exactly was the purpose of this again?
He did not expect to actually win, he is not a leave voter and he just wanted to be PM
Now it has bitten him on the arse and Cameron has passed all the planning tohim he is shittign it and back pedalling as furiously as he did when he flopped over to the remain side
Ignoring that he is a tory does anyone actually want a person with this little probity,principles or morals - FFS he is an adulterous racist as well- as our national leader
To use a football chant - you're not fit to wear the shirt
I imagine the Tories will find an anyone but Boris candidate as they did with Heseltine when he culled Thatcher. So the real questions is , in this hour of our countries need, who is the Tories current John Major ?
jet26 - Member
Interesting that Boris is now suggesting retention of large amounts of our integration with Europe and that being in for a lot of stuff is a good thing.Firstly seems like dreamland, secondly did those who voted leave really vote for that?
Many of those who voted to leave really didn't think that deeply about it.
Broadly:
They didn't like the austerity cuts.
and/or
They don't like foreigners -immigrants or EU leaders.
Interesting that Boris is now suggesting retention of large amounts of our integration with Europe and that being in for a lot of stuff is a good thing.
It's a brave new world....anything is possible! 😕
The only change - and it will not come in any great rush
May be no great rush for Boris, but I'm champing at the bit to get stuck into my new career in fruit picking, as soon as the E Europeans have been shipped out. Plus I need a hip replacement at that new hospital I was promised. What's he waiting for?
Well we keep getting surprise results all over the place.
Equity markets... subdued, quiet ... would have thought we'd have seen more activity.
No article 50 ... no result ... just uncertainty.
If the situation roughly remains the same ... it'll drift throughout the summer (as it will do today)
Currency ... If you looked at Mike's link above .. that needs to be put into context... have a look at a 2 day graph
So we seem to have slipped seamlessly from disaster to farce?
I'd say that with every passing minute of this ridiculous Charade, Boris's goal of being handed the keys to number ten becomes less and less likely
Business as usual then...phew! thank god that's over 😉
