Britain won't leave the EU.
As a nation we have walked to the edge of the cliff and looked over. Rather than seeing the promised land of milk and honey, we have seen a long drop and the rocks below. No one is going to be insane enough to push the A50 button, not least BJ. There will be some sort of fudge around the fact that the referendum was not binding and the winning margin was small. There might even be a second referendum, possibly with a slightly different question.
Athgray - terrific post.
If my sons school class is full and the new Bulgarian kid turns up for their first day, I would feel more proud to live in a country where the kids were told to budge up a bit to make room, rather than send the child packing back to where they belong with their 'desperate' parents.
Athgray - well said!
athgray +1
Athgray +1 post of the week
Yes Athgray +1, well said.
"disintegration of the EU practically irreversible." - George Soros ..
[quote=noltae ]"disintegration of the EU practically irreversible." - George Soros ..
He also said last Friday would be a financial meltdown in the UK.
It would be interesting to see the voting of the area posters are from
Mine was 72% leave. And yes there is a correlation with the number of eu migrants and the number of beers cans and rubbish lobbed in the hedges.
There is also a correlation of fly tipping and arrival of caravans in the summer time.
* not sure what tyskie or perla beer tastes like.. any opinions from stwers.
ROW for me...
I suspect you are right. The shower of shit in Whitehall are going to spend ages looking for their balls.Britain won't leave the EU.
I fancy placing some money on this - where can I get odds?
athgray +1
[i]Leavers don't seem to have understood that they have just left a comfortable exclusive club and are standing outside in the rain because they refused to pay a membership fee that amounted to less than half an hours work a week.[/i]
Yep. Worse-case scenario working on Leaves' numbers, it was a £1 a day for our household - at that rate I've spent more on dinner than it costs us for a years 'subscription'. Bargain!
I was reading in the Independant of the people of Salfords who voted leave - they basically said that they knew tough times were coming, they have been through a lot of tough times already, and were willing to suffer the pain in the hope that things might get better, as they were already pretty bad in their view.
They saw four week waiting times for doctors appointments, unable to get into schools, etc. Problems that are just based on numbers of people.
So I have a solution to ignoring the referendum result:
We do not leave the EU, but middle/higher earner taxes are ramped up for a period of time to pay for infrastructure improvements in those areas of the country where immigration numbers have caused pressure on local facilities, like schools, doctors and hospitals.
Even if it is not actually immigraton numbers that cause the problem but just overpopulation leading to a perceived immigration problem, the problem remains and those areas will also be redeveloped.
Most middle/high earners will not complain of short term tax increases because we are not leaving the EU and therefore they won't see such financial turmoil/impact.
And the country will not look too bad in the eyes of the world as it is taking positive, socially progressive, action - from which the EU might learn something.
So I have a solution to ignoring the referendum result:
We do not leave the EU, but middle/higher earner taxes are ramped up for a period of time to pay for infrastructure improvements in those areas of the country where immigration numbers have caused pressure on local facilities, like schools, doctors and hospitals.
Even if it is not actually immigraton numbers that cause the problem but just overpopulation leading to a perceived immigration problem, the problem remains and those areas will also be redeveloped.
Most middle/high earners will not complain of short term tax increases because we are not leaving the EU and therefore they won't see such financial turmoil/impact.
And the country will not look too bad in the eyes of the world as it is taking positive, socially progressive, action - from which the EU might learn something.
You are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my five Australian Dollars (not much point requesting pounds now)
(And please don't take that badly, it's what needs to happen IMO, and something as a higher earner I would have no problem with)
You are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my five Australian Dollars (not much point requesting pounds now)
what's wrong with that then ? maybe 2/3rd of people will think they won from the result. 1/3 still hacked off with the neo-liberal EU.
Yeah, the tories will raise taxes for rich people instead of brexit, that's a real flier.
Genuine question to all those who voted remain. If we entered the EU wholeheartedly, and by that I mean use the Euro etc would you still vote remain?
Turnerguy, the UK is a low tax society, despite the mail and express arguing otherwise, and as far as roads, NHS etc go you get what you pay for.
Problem in the UK, is not and never has been Brussels, just far to easy for Westminster to blame them rather than actually deal with the problems.
Going forward
Would you want to be the Tory leader who presses the button. Have to admire Cameron on that, by resigning he really has ****ed his successor.
Sum up, the UK has been given a revolver and asked to play Russian roulette
No. The Euro was clearly a failure. Nobody is suggesting that it makes any sense as an economic option. As I may have said elsewhere. There is much about the EU that is had to get enthusiastic about. But overall, that doesn't mean we should leave.
those who voted remain. If we entered the EU wholeheartedly, and by that I mean use the Euro etc would you still vote remain?
The Euro is a tricky one. It's a great idea that would only work properly in a fully federal Europe with a unified fiscal policy. I'm not sure I have a problem with that end point provided all checks and balances were in place, but I'm not sure the Euro is so great in the status quo.
That is an interesting comment! But what of democracy?
@imnotverygood..fair point, how easy is it for the EU to ditch the euro and start again? It seems as though the EU needs to restructure.
Yeah, the tories will raise taxes for rich people instead of brexit, that's a real flier.
but the argument is that if we brexit then it will cost them more money than temporary tax hikes.
Plus there's not as many rich voters and poor, so the impact on a strong leader than implements it will be less.
Am genuinely going to look at putting a few quid on us not leaving. Have we done the FB post that's circulating yet (and I assume swear filter will butcher)
Right. **** this. We're ALL up shit creek and we need a paddle. Now, not in three months.Fellow Remain voters: Enough already. Yes, we're all pissed off but navel gazing ain't gonna help. Not all 17 million Leave voters can possibly be racist northern pensioners without an O level to their name. Maybe they have a point about this quitting the EU thing? Maybe not. Whatever, we are where we are and no amount a whinging is gonna change that. Allegedly we're the intelligent ones, so get your thinking caps on.
Leave voters. Well done. Good game. We hear you. Now you need to get stuck in to the aftermath and not just piss off back to Wetherspoons. (Just banter, ****s!). And the first person to say they "want their country back" gets deported to ****ing Gibraltar. OK?
Politicians.
David. **** off. Shut the door behind you. Now.
George. You may be a **** but you're our ****. Plus you know the passwords for our Junior Savers account. Get your calculator. Drop the face-like-a-slapped-ass routine. You're on.
Boris. Sorry mate. That photo of you abseiling by your scrotum over the London Olympics while waving a Union Jack can't ever be un-taken. Plus, you'll never be able to appear on Question Time again without some sturdy Glaswegian nurse asking where the **** her 350 million quid is. Not only will she have a very good point, she'll be wearing a T shirt that shows you gurning in front of that ****ing bus! No captains hat for you I'm afraid.
Theresa. You're in charge love. Get the biggest shoulder pads you've got. We need Ming The Merciless in drag and you'll scare the shit out of 'em.
Nicola. Yep. Fair cop. You probably could get us on a technicality, as could London. But we ****ing love shortbread. And oil. And to be honest you're probably the best politician we've got, so we need you on side. Sort your lot out and we promise never to mention that Jimmy Krankie thing again (although it is pretty uncanny) and we'll make you a Dame once we're sorted. Bring Ruth Davidson. She kicks ass.
Opposition party. We'll need one. Someone take Jeremy and John back to the British Legion Club where you found them. Take Nigel as well. Give back their sandals, buy them a pint, then go to Heathrow and collect David Milliband. **** it. Lets gets Ed Balls as well. He keeps George on his toes. I think he works on the lottery kiosk at Morrisons now?
Oh. And Mark Carney. Give him a knighthood and tell him to keep that shit coming. We definitely need more of that good shit!
Everyone set? Right. Hold the Easyjet. We're going to Brussels and this ain't no hen party.
I heard the brexiters now at least have a name for the plan they are formulating.
"The Edinburgh Defence"
@zokes For me that's half the problem..If we're all in then so be it we'll get on with it..but if there's no stomach for that then we may as well do our own thing..
What's going to happen to Londons financial reputation if world markets fall further ? Losing a lot of international investors lots of money on a whim is not going to help with investment and trust in the future rUK further down the line. Not a fan of globalization and corporations but you can't grab the world economy by the throat and stab it in the back without expecting some kind of penalty.
MSP 😀
I've been away this weekend (TUTB), but saw this- apols if this has been posted, but I'm now wondering about Cameron's strategy in all of this- has he outplayed BoJo, Gove, and the Brexiters?
"Did we do this yet? I've been away a couple of days:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign."
Hmm.
There is much about the EU that is hard to get enthusiastic about. That doesn't mean we should leave
@imnotvery the problem for Remain was that's a bl00dy hard strap line for a campaign 8)
1) Cost us less
2) Regain our "sovereignty"
3) Reduce immigration
4) Improve productivity
5) Lift living standards
6) Increase trade
@zokes it amuses me that as I have no clue, idiot, ... Insert insot of choice here ... I keep popping up on the "winning side" even on the Referendum where I though institutional support and resistance to change would me a Remain victory
1) No budget contribution, zero - if EU won't budge we'll go with full tariffs and make a profit
2) No ECJ jurisdiction over anything except EU specific trade, freedom to set taxes and regulations, freedom to agree trade deals with who we like
3) We may chose to incease immigration, eg tech savvy IT bods from India and China to boost our tech sector (compare us pound for pound with Isreal whcih kicks @rse in that area)
4) Focus on tech, as an aside productivity will likely fall in traditional industries as wages rise
5) See 6
6) Focusing on high growth regions of the world rather than the corpse that EU will beome post Greek default and contagion. EU markets already down more than the UK as investors realise its more of a problem for them than us
@imnotvery the problem for Remain was that's a bl00dy hard strap line for a campaign
Dunno - Jezza did OK:
[b]The EU: Seven out of Ten[/b]
This just keeps getting more and more ridiculous... "There is no brexit plan":
http://news.sky.com/video/1717859/islam-there-is-no-brexit-plan
4) Focus on tech, as an aside productivity will likely fall in traditional industries as wages rise
Company i work for is also in high tech stuff, no way they can continue working here outside the EU as we deal with all the European car manufacturers.
If you want high tech, you going to have to start again from scratch, because a lot of the existing companies focus on the EU.
I'm just going to leave this here.
I've just been chatting to a mate who's a teacher. She spent Friday trying to comfort an inconsolable Polish kid (great student - speaks better English than mosy of the class). The kids of the more triumphalist hard-of-thinking parents had been relentlessly bullying him saying how 'your lot' are all going to be 'sent home'.
Welcome to post referendum Britain 2016. Twinned with Berlin 1933
I feel ashamed of what my country has become
Facebook, Uber, Google, Apple ... all those EU based and focused tech co's eh ? I discovered the Sat Nav app I used was Israeli (until bought by Google recently)
Tech is probably the leading business where location makes pretty much zero difference. Write an app stick it on the app store. Write software and sell it where you like, absolute worst case you hire an EU saleman and stick him in an office somewhere
@binner a terrible story indeed but why didn't his parents make it clear to him that he'd have the right to stay so that when these yobs piped up he could respond
As an aside his native Poland is far less accepting of immigrants and refugees than is this country
'm just going to leave this here.I've just been chatting to a mate who's a teacher. She spent Friday trying to comfort an inconsolable Polish kid (great student - speaks better English than mosy of the class). The kids of the more triumphalist hard-of-thinking parents had been relentlessly bullying him saying how 'your lot' are all going to be 'sent home'.
Welcome to post referendum Britain 2016. Twinned with Berlin 1933
I feel ashamed of what my country has become
As you'll be aware Binners, kids have always taunted other kids, and while there are lots of reasons to feel a little ashamed of your country, I don't really feel this is a great example, and certainly not worthy of the comparison you've made.
@Horatio - how silly of you to have taken any notice of what tech start-up bosses say about the prospects for their business. You should have just asked the resident experts. Bet you feel daft now!!
@binners - ****less Polish parents not teaching their kid the details of the Treaty of Vienna. Bloody foreigners.
DrJ indeed the Guardian that well known tech journal.
DrJ indeed the Guardian that well known tech journal.
The interviewees said what they said. Of course they lack your profound insight, but hey, nobody's perfect.
@binner a terrible story indeed but why didn't his parents make it clear to him that he'd have the right to stay so that when these yobs piped up he could respond
Yeah that's the way the world works 🙄
My 9 year old son was upset on Thursday morning as he was told by others that he would not be able to go to see his French family if Brexit won.
DrJ indeed the Guardian that well known tech journal.
jambalaya, I currently feel absolutely shit about this entire situation, and would literally love to see some reassuring links to alternative sources which describe how any tech companies are going to invest more money now we've decided to leave the EU??
Naming some US tech giants, or telling us about a satnav you've bought isn't reassuring in the slightest.
Here's a non guardian link:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/24/tech_firms_reel_at_brexit_vote/
