[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

This is getting real - York, so Hull-Zeebrugge is normally my ferry of choice, but our rail connections make it pretty easy to start from most places.

Might need to leave it until Easter or beyond but I like it.

And I like the jersey - if we all chip in do you think Jamba would wear one? Worth it for the photo.

How about when A50 is triggered? 🙂

London-Brussels a lot shorter, doable in a single day I think.

Best ride fast so that your £ will still get you a beer in Paris 😉

[i]Same level as in 2011 - did we have a thread then ?[/I]

Presume we did, regard the global financial crisis fallout.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi

I am not saying that won't cause some issues but rising import prices will encourage us to buy less imported goods

I wonder how many UK made goods use raw materials also sourced from the UK.

Nobody has been in touch regarding joining my Lakeland Tea and Coffee growing enterprise yet, perhaps next I can seek some backers for my UK iron ore mining projects

Unfortunately you've already lost first mover advantage - there's a Scottish Tea company growing white tea and exporting it to China:

http://weeteacompany.com/

I am not saying that won't cause some issues but rising import prices will encourage us to buy less imported goods

The thing with imports is that they tend to be things that either we don't make because we don't have the resources or we simply can't make at a competitive price.

The UK is the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_imports ]sixth largest importer in the World[/url] but only the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports ]tenth largest exporter[/url] (2014/15 figures).

Our [url= http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-10-imports/ ]main imports[/url] include things like engines, machinery, computers, vehicles, electronics, fuel, pharmaceuticals, gems & precious metals, medical equipment, plastics, aircraft and clothing.

Much as I'd love to see the country covered by open-cast diamond mines, oil wells, and sweat shops - it's not going to happen.

there's a Scottish Tea company growing white tea and exporting it to China:

http://weeteacompany.com/

As chewkw incredulously pointed out earlier: have you seen their prices?!?

postive spin, it the pound tanks enough we can reopen the cornish tin mines, reopen those north wales slate mines, open cast the Forest of dean to get the iron out.

Fracking, bring it on.

lets rip the crap out the UKs environment!

As chewkw incredulously pointed out earlier: have you seen their prices?!?

could go for Cornish Tregothnan instead then.

But that's about thrupence in Chinese now since the pound collapsed

molgrips - Member
How about when A50 is triggered?

I'm 45 now, I might be to old to ride by then.

Much as I'd love to see the country covered by open-cast diamond mines, oil wells, and sweat shops - it's not going to happen.

nah give it 50 years post brexit and I could well see the developed world: China, India, Federated States of Europa 😉 basing their sweatshops and call centres here.

nah give it 50 years post brexit and I could well see the developed world: China, India, Federated States of Europa basing their sweatshops and call centres here.

You forget one detail, the reason we outsourced to India was that there were English speakers there. How many in the UK speak Mandarin? The only hope for the UK is a Trump presidency.

I remember one of my history teachers telling me c.1988 that we were only one step away from becoming a third world country. Pretty prescient, certainly seems a possibility at the moment.

Here's a nice idea:

http://www.stilleu.uk/want-keep-eu-passport/

I like that molly, keep your EU passport for 11quid a month !

Even though he'd never admit it on here I'll bet that would be something jammers would sign up to in a flash 😉

Molgrips...signed.

[img] https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55425fafe4b05386c5523c4a/t/555f464ee4b0026857fe52d4/1432307280329/ [/img]
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When you get it, don't shout out. And try doing it without looking at the image file names 🙂

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😉

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another law you can bet that the government will be desperate to ditch when we leave

still for now, thank goodness for the EU
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/02/diesel-vehicles-face-charges-after-uk-government-loses-air-pollution-case

Why Kimbers ? Diesels seem a great target for some environmental tariffs. The whole issue has come about as German and French interests have pushed the EU to approve meaningless and easily dodged emissions tests

Little LOL at Kimbers for thinking the EU protects us from diesel particulates. Au contraire!

30% of city air pollution comes from 1% of vehicles and it ain't Audi A4s

If you give up I'll tell you.

Thanks Molgrips. I'm European and so is my wife.

30% of city air pollution comes from 1% of vehicles and it ain't Audi A4s

If you give up I'll tell you.

Is it bicycles? The Daily Mail said it was bicycles and cycle lanes that caused all the pollution and as they were so pro-Brexit and all the wondrous things that being free from the shackles of the EU would bring us, I think it must be bicycles.

The Daily Mail wouldn't get it wrong.

i have a very serious question , where will people get their Audis, will there all of a sudden be a black market?

It's gotq to be busses hasn't it? Or cabs.

Little LOL at Kimbers for thinking the EU protects us from diesel particulates. Au contraire!

and yet our own government is failing even to meet the EUs standards

because post brexit, we'll be putting all kinds of restrictions on car manufactureres,

oh no, we'll be offering them whatever they want as long as they build cars here....

Paris's solution from the other thread

Paris Mayor (Socialist) is talking of banning Diesels altogether. She has already been closing roads, reducing speed limits and in summer banning cars with even or odd numbered registrations on alternate days

Mattyfez wins. Buses

Paris's solution from the other thread

Are you approving or disapproving that Jamba?
Sounds good to me! Far from perfect but a step in the right direction.

I believe Dublin was considering something similar?

There was that crazy report a while back saying that electric cars produced just as much particulate emissions as ICE cars because of the greater weight on the tyres... so I reckon it's actually kids pulling skidz on BMXes. Am I right?

There was that crazy report a while back saying that electric cars produced just as much particulate emissions as ICE cars because of the greater weight on the tyres

Nissan Leaf curb weight from 1475kg. So not light, but not really heavy either. Not enough to produce clouds of tyre smoke really.

Particulate emissions is a bit of a vague term, particulates of natural rubber or particulates of heavy metals?

Wasn't Paris banning motorcycles and scooters at one point?

Graham. Bit draconian particularly after EU govts have been effectively running around persuading people to buy diesel. I think a move to electric/hybrid is a good idea. Shutting the roads is nuts, it makes the traffic worse and the businesses hate it as customer flow goes down as people can't be bothered.

Wasn't Paris banning motorcycles and scooters at one point?

My understanding is not outright but a ban on them filtering between lanes on the Periph as they do presently. I think the scooters/bikes staged a protest and showed how they'd clog it up (even more) so it was dropped.

Just recently they banned vintage cars

She is rather nuts and Sadiq has been cozying up to her

Shutting the roads is nuts, - the businesses hate it as customer flow goes down as people can't be bothered.

that has been shown to be incorrect- many times over, pedestrianising oxford street sees a big increase in shoppers, and a huuuge increase in air quality

high streets are struggling for a number of reasons, out of town & online shopping are a much bigger factor

Yep people hate change, banning cars needs to be part of a solution with decent public transport options to go with it. Business can adapt by offering delivery and collection for bigger stuff etc. A good modern city should make you wonder why you one a car. That is something to aspire to.

@kimbers they aren't shutting shopping streets but "through routes" - people can't get from A to B. There used to be a tunnel under the Arch d'Triomphe and they closed it so cars have to ground round above ground. I am really struggling with the "environmental" angle of causing so many jams until some traffic stays away

the only way to cut traffic is to make it either uneconomic or to make it so difficult. i.e. increase cost and increase congestion.

Predict and provide only creates more traffic.

Jamba facts.

Jamba - the interesting thing about electric cars is refilling them. Not a problem when there's a handful of them, but if and when (probably when) there's a sackload of them we could potentially (worst case warning) need an electric network over three times the size of the current one.
With a little common sense applied to when people charge cars it won't be that bad, but it could still be very expensive, especially if networks are catering for both PV on people's roofs and EVs on their driveway.
It's going to require a far more "common good" approach than has been traditional in the U.K.
(This kind of thing heads into my specialist subject area)

Electric buses sort a lot of the problem in a much more controlled manner - of course if we just said electric bus or pedal power in town centres... well problem sorted.

Interesting re:charging

Anyway are you up for that A50 ride?

Interesting re:charging

Clearly a spambot loading the next chunk of made up "facts".
I don't think spam bots can ride bikes.

Kimbers - that's one solution that has been talked about. However it relies on a common battery and installation method across a number of vehicles, an acceptance that you don't own a battery (i.e. If you get a duff one every so often so be it) and ultimately you still need to charge the battery.

I think it works well for London cabs.

Brexit is going to be "a Titanic success" according to Boris

Well those deck chairs aren't going to rearrange themselves ! 🙄

I am no constitutional expert but how can we leave Europe without a vote on it in parliament?

Anyone explain? Its has most probably been done before but I am not going back through this thread to find out 😀

Cars of the future people - hydrogen is already here. There will be a mixture of low emission solutions to the air quality issues. More cycling, walking and ebikes among them. They take up less space.

Research generally shows that installing cycling infrastructure sees an uplift in local business revenue. Oh and a cycle share scheme in your neighbourhood increases the value of your home.

Brexit is still shit though. I don't want to go back to the seventies. It was rubbish. I have all the European job sites bookmarked.

I am no constitutional expert but how can we leave Europe without a vote on it in parliament?

There's a case at the high court currently, awaiting judgement, but whoever looses it likely to appeal at the supreme court.

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-latest-article-50-theresa-may-parliament-vote-trigger-approval-a7394206.html%3Famp?client=ms-opera-mobile ]https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-latest-article-50-theresa-may-parliament-vote-trigger-approval-a7394206.html%3Famp?client=ms-opera-mobile[/url]

Electric buses sort a lot of the problem in a much more controlled manner

They do seem to be more popular lately. Seems like a good use-case.

Clover - (continuing the thread hijack) how do we make the hydrogen? It will take mind boggling amounts of power to do it in a 'green' way, particularly if you include heat in the equation.
Not that batteries won't need mind boggling amounts of power.

I agree the future will need a variety of energy vectors and energy sources - and the fact that it ain't easy keeps people like me employed - which bike shop owners across Europe will agree is a good thing.

And we're just about back on topic.

We obviously care about Europe.
Help these people to help us.
http://euromove.org.uk/join-the-european-movement/

Cars of the future people - hydrogen is already here

When I was at school, 20 years ago, I was told "electric cars don't work, they've tried em"...

Had they remembered to charge them?

Aberdeen buses are already running on hydrogen. [url= http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/CouncilNews/ci_cns/pr_HydrogenStrategyLaunch_220513.asp ]Link[/url]

Renewable energy sources are a good way of creating hydrogen especially when there is more production than the grid requires. Scotland has lots of renewables.

Yes, storage and transportation is always the problem with hydrogen though.

What we need is some sort of international standard of batteries, be a good project for the EU

Teslas acutally use standard panasonic laptop cells (has the gigafactory started production yet?). The trick is how they're packaged together to manage the heat.

[I]My understanding is not outright but a ban on them filtering between lanes on the Periph as they do presently. I think the scooters/bikes staged a protest and showed how they'd clog it up (even more) so it was dropped.[/I]

Just google'd it, seems it's a ban on cars (pre 1997) and bikes (pre 2000) over a certain age. Although bikes are harder hit as while they produce far less than cars they don't 'proportionally'. ie per cc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857785

"Parliament must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the European Union, the High Court has ruled."

Ka
boom

1) Changes things a lot and
2) Makes May look even worse politically and
3) Could start heading even further South for May, as there'll be a lot of rebellion...

yipeee!

Be prepared for Gove, Davies, Fox , Rees-Mogg to be spluttering with righteous indignation 🙂

itll still happen tho, 'the people have spoken' 🙄 and MPs are cowards, despite their own convictions

Gives more space for campaigning and activism though.

At least write to your MP!

But surely they can't complain. Isn't this what taking back control was all about? Parliamentary sovereignty and freedom from "unelected dictators".

And who knows how it may play out. If it is upheld in supreme court and has to be debated by both chambers then it could be strung out for a long time. Long enough for a reasoned debate, more facts to emerge and be properly considered, and maybe even an early general election (where the libdems can sweep to power in an SNP coalition). Here's hoping anyway.

I'd like to think that May is playing the long game and will eventually fall on her sword taking down Rees-Mogg, Davies, Fox, Gove, Johnson and all the other foaming at the brain, odious ****s that seem to populate the right wing of our politics. Sadly I suspect May actually is just doing this all for her own chance at POWER! Apparently it is better to ram an iceberg with conviction than change course and admit that maybe you made a mistake.

That's why it's so bloody stupid. No-one in power has a clue how to run a country or indeed has any kind of connection to the people.

Hopefully this fiasco can expose the political elite as the bloody useless fools they are and we might get a bit of political reform in this country.

This and the benefits thread really show up how the last 30 odd years of governments have done nothing like enough to look after the damn country.

Seems only right and proper that the people who *should* know more about this stuff, i.e. our paid politicians, should take the final decision. I don't think it's 'defying democracy' for the politicians to stand up and say 'we heard the public voice in the referendum result, however we believe that to leave the EU would be the wrong decision for the country for the following reasons etc. etc. etc.'

If the referendum result has shown anything it's that it would be insane to take such huge decisions on the basis of a public vote when the majority are basing their decision on self serving newspapers and sketchy promises/fearmongering by pro-leave/pro-remain campaigners. How many voters hold ecomonics degrees? 🙄

Delighted. Actual tears in eyes delighted. It may not change the final outcome, but at least its a reprieve!

EDIT. Richmond by-election so much more important now, a win for Lib. Dems. would be a clear shot across the bows for brexit and facilitate Parliment regecting triggering article 50.

Some good news at last, I think there could be some hospital admissions as the brexit lot digest that one, wonder how the mail et al will play it, damm British courts interfering with stuff that doesn't concern them...
Tip one right your referendum terms with the help of the lawyers unless Dave left an option in there on purpose 😉

Seems only right and proper that the people who *should* know more about this stuff, i.e. our paid politicians, should take the final decision. I don't think it's 'defying democracy' for the politicians to stand up and say 'we heard the public voice in the referendum result, however we believe that to leave the EU would be the wrong decision for the country for the following reasons etc. etc. etc.'

The problem with that is that we would need politicians who act in the country's best interests [i]not [/i]their own. They have to be prepared to lose their seat at the next GE. In a parliamentary democracy they are elected to represent their constituents concerns and interests in the manner they deem most appropriate, not be dictated to by them. It is a distinction that many of them (and constituents) fail or refuse to grasp for a variety of largely self-serving reasons.

Tip one right your referendum terms with the help of the lawyers unless Dave left an option in there on purpose

Of course he did. He was pro-Europe, he only had one to satisfy the Europhobes in his party so that's why the clause was there. And it wouldn't be there if there wasn't supposed to be a debate/vote on it. That's why it was so insane for Maytangan and the three Brexiteers to try and go it alone. And that's why she's now going to look bad.

Jamba?

Jamba?

Jamba's in Parliament square holding a placard saying "Take back control, but not that kind of control!"