The longer it takes , the longer the incertainty .
Strange how the Leave top campaigners are very quiet
They have just show some leave voters in sheffield on the BBC news who are now fearful of the future as they somehow didn't think out was going to mean out, thought it was just some sort of protest vote ffs!!! And these are f...wits who have just shafted mine and my family's future.
they don't need to offer us anything
No, what could Britain possibly have which might be of use to anyone ?
Can't imagine why they were so desperate for the UK not to leave.
It was the easy access to glorious weather and haute cuisine, wasn't it ?
The honorable thing would be for England and Wales to secede from the UK and exit the EU that way. That would leave Scotland and NI to continue as the UK and therefore the EU member state. London would need to decide separately.
Well in the case of Ireland all they need to do is remove the artificial partition. Problem solved.
spot on.km79 - Member
The honorable thing would be for England and Wales to secede from the UK and exit the EU that way. That would leave Scotland and NI to continue as the UK and therefore the EU member state. London would need to decide separately.
Regarding the Scotland thing:
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For those that don't know (like me) Guy is a former prime minister of Belgium and much more importantly the Chairman of the fourth largest political group in the European Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_of_Liberals_and_Democrats_for_Europe_Group
The EU is absolutly terrified of contagion, they want the issue dead, buried, and out of the headlines, as soon as possible.
Spot on Ernie. All the anti-Brit tough rhetoric from EU comissioners and Junkers "No" and [b]run for it[/b] responce to the question "is the beginning of the end of the EU" doesn't show toughness it shows he's totally crapping it and did not want to have to speak in any detail about the issue.
The French and Germans have General Elections in 2017 and a Brexit negotiation really spices these up, the UK is a very very important market for both. The prospect of "no deal" would loom very large in (workers) voters minds
I can see a positive of slashing net migration, and only allowing Indian neuro-surgeons into the UK.
As staff turnover progresses, good career opportunities for British born people struggling to find work will open up in the fast food sector, waste sorting and recycling, fruit picking, hospital floor cleaning, abbatoirs and sports clothing warehouses and many other forward looking sectors
The employment outlook may never have looked rosier for some of our most dissaffected citizens if they grab the chance.
@Graham - EU MEP in promoting the EU shocker 🙂 I see he's so enthusiastic he's offered to travel to Scotland to talk, oh hold on a minute. "Next time you're in Brussels" - its not even a real invitation
As staff turnover progresses, good career opportunities for British born people struggling to find work will open up in the fast food sector, waste sorting and recycling, fruit picking, hospital floor cleaning, abbatoirs and sports clothing warehouses.
The employment outlook may never have looked rosier for some of our most dissaffected citizens.
That's rally quite obnoxious !
Perhaps without thousands of desperate immigrants willing to work for low wages some of those jobs will have better terms and conditions. As for "fruit picking" I used to do farm work as a student in the summer (late 70's), it was hard work but paid pretty well.
The break up of the UK does seem pretty inevitable. At least we will be in control of the turnip farms and the turnip heads.
The French and Germans have General Elections in 2017 and a Brexit negotiation really spices these up, the UK is a very very important market for both. The prospect of "no deal" would loom very large in (workers) voters minds
Having watched French and German news it's clear to me that national interests will be defended.
In France that means a deal that won't turn electors towards Le Pen. That means a lousy deal for the UK because the French populace sees this as the end of unfair competition from the UK in financial services and the UK being a host to French tax avoiding multi-nationals.
Both France and Germany have car factories in the UK and you are mistaken if you think that German companies are worried about losing market share in the UK to retaliation from the UK government. The UK government will be too worried about Renault-Nissan, Toyota, BMW etc. moving production out of the UK.
Leavers don't seem to have understood that they have just left a comfortable exclusive club and are standing outside in the rain because they refused to pay a membership fee that amounted to less than half an hours work a week.
Edit: I earned the SMIC for grape picking in the Medoc. And all the cru bourgeois I could drink. 8)
and it is not as if German car manufacturers have a lot of competition in the uk from uk car manufacturers . they might want to keep them at current prices but doubt they will loose a lot of market shares to Rover .
Seeing as how 'we' are now actually trying to make a virtue of stupidity, perhaps we ought to try to monetise it into a currency. The existing currency will be pretty much worthless soon in any case.
We need an alternative to pounds and pence.
How about "Dips" and "Shits".
Or
"Tosses" and "Pots".
Or
"Numbs" and "Nuts".
Not metric of course, that's foreign. What we need is to make all levels of currency prime numbers, that's really ****ing stupid, so let's adopt that. Of course the new elite don't know what prime numbers are, so they'll have to look it up (or get Good Morning Britain to tell them).
I'm bored of taking the piss out of morons now, can someone please unveil The Plan?
I'm just itching to get cracking on the Britain Can Make It programme, so let's have the secret that gave so many people such confidence.
There is one, right?
So from Hannan and the VL teams comments (and the fact that they are desperately trying to keep farage the **** away from any negotiations) it looks like they are after a Norway style set up.
And conciliatory comments from Merkel
So freedom of movement , we still have to make some contributions.
Will people be happy with that?
Personally think it will be sad that we no longer have a voice on the commission, parliament or ecj, but not all bad.
Also overall what will this cost us?
Will it pass the 0.4% of GDP so we end up losing out financially ?
Will the backs start deserting London?
Will Nissan etc head to eu Scotland?
**** what a mess
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jambalaya
That's rally quite obnoxious !
Perhaps without thousands of desperate immigrants willing to work for low wages some of those jobs will have better terms and conditions. As for "fruit picking" I used to do farm work as a student in the summer (late 70's), it was hard work but paid pretty well.
I spent a few months fruit picking in Australia, and 8 years in Tesco, so take no lectures on unskilled work from you.
I have a friend that has a small scale cleaning business and takes out less money than any of her employees. She seems to often end up with Polish employees that are punctual, polite, and good at their jobs.
My work current work colleague is from Poland, and my previous colleague is from Hungary. There are two or three other people doing exactly what I do on other sites within my employer also from Poland.
What I would find obnoxious, is if any of my Scottish colleagues were to look across the desk at them think, "you know what, that job should really be done by someone born in this country!"
Jamby: I thought a lot of the regulatory red tape from the EU that cost businesses was related to working conditions. How does this wonderful new world you're presiding over both improve working conditions and wages, while reducing cost to business.
By the way, put some clothes on, you'll catch your death...
Amazing the UK still doesn't know what side of the negotiations it's on. It's the side with one chair and less power.
Maybe the eu is worried about contagious thoughts but they are also worried about long term uncertainty. There is a time table deal with it.
And ending up with a Norwegian style pay to trade and take free movement deal would finish any of the leave politicians from both sides.
jambalaya
That's rally quite obnoxious !
Perhaps without thousands of desperate immigrants willing to work for low wages some of those jobs will have better terms and conditions.
Having picked veg and fruit along with long hard days of farming mostly before the minimum wage was introduced. Are you advocating for an increase in the minimum wage? To be very harsh these jobs are the bottom of the pile, unskilled if you can't get it then you ain't going to get many other jobs. It's outside but so are many jobs.
and with some time for reflection and a spot of man flu I have a quick browse back through a very good book...
Some things are true throughout history
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
Neither side knew the depth of the other, going to the EU Leave doesn't have a plan and the EU probably do have a good one.
Think this sums up calling a referendum at the wrong time
“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
On the next step you have to feel the EU is starting to beat the drum
“When the enemy is relaxed, make them toil. When full, starve them. When settled, make them move.”
and when it comes to Atricle 50 negotiations
“When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”
There will be an option on the table that lets the UK walk away with something, it will be there till the end it will probably just cost whoever accepts the PM job (if from the leave side) their political carreer.
and to finish
“who wishes to fight must first count the cost”
It seems like many who were so keen to get stuck into making this happen forgot one of the most basic principles.
I await the flaming that will follow about management BS and pointless quotes but just have a read through
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War
What has to happen is for the Tories to elect a leader who will say "the referendum was advisory and thanks for the advice but on reflection it is such a bad idea that we aren't going to do it". That leader would obviously have to be a leading Brexiter and obviously have a very short career. Boris is the clear choice. Boris must for once in his life do the honorable thing and sacrifice his own personal selfish interests for the good of the country.
What are the chances?
The fear emanating from the remain side is a bit disturbing...
What are the chances
*looks for squadron of pigs overhead*
The fear emanating from the remain side is a bit disturbing...
You think that's disturbing? Try the vacuum of ideas from the leave side.
The fear emanating from the remain side is a bit disturbing...
not as much as the blind faith from the leave side - wonders if BoJo will make an appearance today apart from playing cricket.
As with before the vote questioning, truth seeking and hoping for a plan is seen as criticism...
Clueless or fearful..that should have been on the ballot paper..
Try the vacuum of ideas from the leave side.
They didn't plan for it. Nobody on the Leave side and nobody in the Government actually made any plans in case of Brexit. It's amazing, what a shower of incompetents who pretend to rule us.
Turns out it was only the Scottish government who actually had a plan.
For the first time in a LONG time, waking into town today and heard a group of lads shout **** off home blackie sambo to a french speaking black couple in the street.
Whilst some voted Brexit for sound reasons, i think a significant number voted on race, and i do wonder what happens next. The UK can't work without some immigration, those who expect change are in for a rude awakening.
Of course I'm fearful 20% of my industrys funding source has just evaporated, my wife was made redundant at xmas, the economy's slowed down, possibly to the point of recession, if you can show me an positive I'll happily take it
Clueless or fearful..that should have been on the ballot paper..
Quite. And surely most would accept that fear of something tangible is a far more pragmatic response than fingers in ears going LA LA LA!
and when it comes to Atricle 50 negotiations
“When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”
The cost, The Norway, pay more for less influence, but still get to trade. The leavers get to leave the EU, the remainers, get to stay in the EEA
yep that is the out
The leavers get to leave the EU, the remainers, get to stay in the EEA
exactly what neither side wanted.
“You’re looking at 50,000 to 70,000 London finance jobs being moved overseas in the next 12 months,”
http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/248265/london-banking-redundancies-brexit/
Aracer, are there examples of the sort of alliance I mentioned? I am sure there must be one or two in the EU. As I said, speculation rather than wishful thinking as you term it. Jamby; my mate has a farm, fancy coming and explaining to him how he will get his crops in once we leave the EU?
What has to happen is for the Tories to elect a leader who will say "the referendum was advisory and thanks for the advice but on reflection it is such a bad idea that we aren't going to do it". That leader would obviously have to be a leading Brexiter and obviously have a very short career.
And would also pave the way for UKIP to ascend.
And would also pave the way for UKIP to ascend.
At the moment I think UKIP may have a credibility problem among anyone not in their core support. Some careful campaigning and engagement showing them to be the liers and cheats that they are would dent a lot of the swing voters. That and UK FPTP does not deliver on % lines so those places with big swings don't mean enough to return many MP's.
There's a lot of uncertainty, and that is scary but there will also be opportunity, those opportunities will be missed if we can't put the fear to one side. The result is what it is, how we as individuals deal with it is up to us..
lazybike - Member
There's a lot of uncertainty, and that is scary but there will also be opportunity, those opportunities will be missed if we can't put the fear to one side
Empty platitudes aside, id still like to hear an actual positive
Opportunities kimbers! Opportunities!
To Boris, Pob and Nige
I could not dig; I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
Kipling
And it sems they know it
“A lot of things were said in advance of this referendum that we might want to think about again,” said the Conservative former Defence Minister Liam Fox.
Labour Party imploding over the Referendum
