The speculative way everyone is talking about NI is worrying. I lived through the troubles and don't want my kids to experience the same. There's been a lot of very destabilising chatter over the past 24 hours.
Of course Junkers wants us to crack on - but it benefits us to string it out a bit....this is the fist step of the negotiation.
My concern/worry is that Junkers is actually the arrogant vindictive bureaucrat he's been accuse of, with a desire to keep the current EU together and use that to cloud the negotiations. I'd rather he and his fellow bureaucrats eat a bit of humble pie, realise that there are some genuine concerns and desire for change that the rest of the EU fosters that is driving the rise of the far right and that some significant reform is needed to change the shape of the EU, instead of blaming the UK and making an example of us to save the EU in its current form.
The structure of the current EU is out of date in today's modern fast moving world. The world has overtaken it. It's too big, bureaucratic and slow. The modern world is fast moving, agile and reacts immediately to the global environment. I work with customers in the countries in the Asia Pacific regions - it is staggering, impressive and ominous for the established west the way that these countries operate. They're all young, well educated, tech savvy, innovative, make quick decisions, act rather than deliberate, are used to working in a volatile uncertain environment. The growth is staggering - and it's only just starting to gather pace, they're hungry go-getters. This is the future, they will inherit the earth and the established economies of the US, UK and EU will be left in their wake, and the current structure of the EU just can't hope to compete in its current form. Having to refer big decisions to a council of 27 or so member states is just too slow.
. I keep hearing the phrase "the UK has to be made an example of" words like that are not helpful.
The EU are in crisis mode they have to send a warning to other countries with far right elements looking to stage a referendum
Having to refer big decisions to a council of 27 or so member states is just too slow.
You're right should've just signed up TTIP in its 1st 2015 draft
😕
Having to refer big decisions to a council of 27 or so member states is just too slow.
100% so the options are to refer decisions to 27 individual governments or to just get on with it and make it one.
Idiot woman from Barnsley being interviewed on Channel 4 news. States that her parents and grandparents "fought for England to be free" and it was time for England to be free. So basically a big FU to Scotland, Wales and NI plus she is either completely unaware of what was fought for in the wars she referred to and who exactly fought in them. Absolutely disgusted that people have voted based on this misguided nonsense. Thick, racist ****s.
Yes kimbers, but at least we'll have control!
meanwhile back at leave HQ the plan for the navy to rebuild the empire is in full swing
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Well just heard my cousin is applying for French status - not sure exactly what sort.
And that petition Flanagaj mentioned/suggested is just under a million signatures now.
$2 trillion dollars of value gone on global markets overnight https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/24/bank-of-england-markets-pound-shares-plummet-brexit-vote-carneyUK stock market reaction fairly muted at close
How does the song go? "We've only just begun"
Experts? Nobody needs experts, they are just making themselves sound important.
Anyway you don't need all that finance crap what we need is proper positive thinking and some good old fashioned stiff upper lip, maybe a war
Pesky bankers have got what's coming to them.
[quote=P-Jay ]I wonder how many Brexiters woke up like this today
Here are the Remainers:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36628305
Well if the carnage continues this one vote will have toppled a prime minister, nudged an opposition leader (I doubt he will start listening to his party and doing what they want), split the government and what will be next?
Just a random thought... do the Lords have the power to block the article 50 declaration?
Well that's all right then:-
kimbers - Member
Having to refer big decisions to a council of 27 or so member states is just too slow.
You're right should've just signed up TTIP in its 1st 2015 draft
Whilst China is dumping cheap steel on the world the EU [u]raised[/u] tariffs to only half of that already imposed on Russian steel. We all know how that finished and will now need to save our steel industry if we are to boost our economy. The EU is a lumbering beast and getting worse, not better as time passes.
[quote=duckman ]a trade agreement with a newly Indy Scotland would be installed. Which would give back door access to English markets and make Scotland attractive to the EU
You're indulging in the same sort of wishful thinking as a lot of Leavers - except worse in a way as you're suggesting something which can't possibly happen. I've no doubt there would be trade agreements between RUK and IS. At least until IS joined the EU, at which point any trade agreements would be between RUK and the EU. There will be no back door.
Have we done this?
Leave campaigner Nigel Evans has denied immigration will fall after the UK voted to leave the EU. The Conservative MP said there had been some “misunderstanding” over the Leave campaign’s position on reducing immigration.
They blinking did by the way I heard Gove say there was a manifesto commitment on reducing immigration that leaving would allow them to do. Think it was Gove anyway.
What stops us having trade agreements with both England,and the EU? With the sort of free passage for workers that we already have. I can't see us introducing border controls anytime soon. That is speculation,not wishful thinking..As for wishful thinking, my biggest wish is for Scotland to be an independent country,how do you think that one will pan out for me?
Whilst China is dumping cheap steel on the world the EU raised tariffs to only half of that already imposed on Russian steel. We all know how that finished and will now need to save our steel industry if we are to boost our economy. The EU is a lumbering beast and getting worse, not better as time passes
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/david-cameron-accused-failing-uk-steel-industry-blocking-eu-lesser-duty-proposal ]For the imaginary world of a Brexiteer[/url]
Time for some positive thinking and action, time to bring back the good old british motivational poster
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Remember the good old days
Thanks for that but if you read my previous posts on the matter you'll would notice I blamed the UK government too. The EU is supposed to act in the interest of all its member states and failed to pursue a political stance against Russia instead of the economic benefits of the EU
She's oan it
[quote=duckman ]What stops us having trade agreements with both England,and the EU?
Nothing at all if you're totally independent - I thought you wanted to be an EU member though and that was the whole point?
Our finance minister in Europe has just been given the boot. Osborne is in hiding. The city must be crapping themselves. Meantime - BoJo Gove and even Farage. Where the **** are they?
Whilst China is dumping cheap steel on the world the EU raised tariffs to only half of that already imposed on Russian steel. We all know how that finished and will now need to save our steel industry if we are to boost our economy.
Correct, and right-wing Tory governments have a fantastic track record of state intervention in these areas. The roads to the North and West will surely be paved with gold by 2020.
considering england will be champing at the bit to have a trade agreement with the EU, they are one and the same thing basically.aracer - Member
duckman » What stops us having trade agreements with both England,and the EU?
Nothing at all if you're totally independent - I thought you wanted to be an EU member though and that was the whole point?
I think you're missing the point - the suggestion was being made that IS could have trade agreements with RUK which were different to those the EU had with RUK. Something which is only possible if IS isn't in the EU.
Unless I'm missing the point, but I don't see how Scotland provides a gateway to RUK for the EU unless it had a separate trading arrangement.
You're gonna have to take those € registration plates off your cars and replace it with a fist and middle finger salute.
Bloody pathetic situation, pikies and the vote eh.
Typical, ruin it for everyone's else, selfish basterds.
They'll need a lot of lawyers and quickly as the civil service simply does not have the resources
@current size..... But we are going to need a much larger civil service for New Britain......
Now the eu jobs for the lads are on the way out 🙂
But we are going to need a much larger civil service for New Britain......
Let me add that into the 350 million
Is skilled emigration about to become a bigger issue than immigration?
I'm starting to wonder between individuals I know who are very seriously looking to leave, and companies' on going investment/deployment decisions (OK Morgan Stanley aren't leaving this week, but if you read their statement carefully it pretty much said we'll be gone by the time Brexit is complete - meanwhile the next time the Renault-Nissan plant at Sunderland is competing for a new model, will they be on a level playing field with a French plant?).
Oh yes, Flanagaj's petition to rerun the EU referendum is over 1.5 million signatures now.
That should be an interesting parliamentary debate.
Mr Woppit - Member
Our finance minister in Europe has just been given the boot.
To be fair I think he was asked by JCJ to stay on but he resigned as he felt as a pro-European he was no longer representing his country.
What's the point of ukip now that UK independence is on the cards? Will they finally shuffle off the political stage, leaving tory, labour an the new UKEU party?
meanwhile the next time the Renault-Nissan plant at Sunderland is competing for a new model, will they be on a level playing field with a French plant?
The next new model is the new Juke, but only if they can hit the cost targets that were promised. They only just won it and that extra potential £??? that has just been added by voting to leave might well tip the scales in favour of the Renault plant they were competing with.
Turkeys voting for christmas is very appropriate.
Never mind Christmas, they've just voted to establish Thanksgiving too...
The BBC has been told that Britain could be forced to start negotiating its departure from the EU earlier than the government had planned.David Cameron wants to delay the start of exit talks until a new Conservative leader has been elected in October.
But Derrick Wyatt QC, emeritus professor of law at Oxford University, told the BBC that the European Council - representing the 27 other member states - could trigger the negotiating process as soon as the prime minister discusses Brexit with other EU leaders.
EU foreign ministers have joined the European Commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, in urging the UK to begin talks as soon as possible.
The EU is absolutly terrified of contagion, they want the issue dead, buried, and out of the headlines, as soon as possible.
Some EU politicians/bureaucrats, such as Jean-Claude Juncker, would rather maximum haste even if it doesn't serve the long term interests of the EU, the thought that other voters in the EU might be demand a similar say is too much for them to bear - the last thing they want is voters in member states meddling in their affairs and expressing an opinion.
Others such as Angela Merkel take a more level-headed approach, she has said :
[i] “Analyze and evaluate the situation calmly and prudently, and jointly make the right decisions on this foundation.”
“Our goal should be to shape the future relationship of Great Britain with the European Union as being tight and partner-like.”
“The German government will pay special attention to the interests of German citizens and German business.”[/i]
Spot on ernie. Thankfully the ultimate power lies with Merkel rather than Juncker , because Germany is bankrolling his little empire
I'm not at all surprised that the EU leadership are demanding that the UK immediately say they are leaving (Article 50), but we'd be incredible foolish to do it as once it's 'declared' then we've only 2 years to negotiate before we're out - and they don't need to offer us anything...
