It must be a strange existence on planet Leave.
3 years ago:
Leave: "We don't want to be told what to do by Brussels."
Remain: "Which laws do you want to remove, specifically?"
Leave: "Umm... ?"
Today:
Remain: "The UK is going to remove EU laws."
Leave: "Which laws are we removing, specifically?"
Remain: "These ones, look."
Leave: "Got any proof?"
This is what you voted for remember, now it looks like there's a chance you might get it and you don't want to believe it. **** me gently with a chainsaw, the day you lot work out what you actually want there will probably be a parade. What's it going to take, at this point I'd almost believe that you could literally set a leaver on fire and they'd still stand there shouting "project fear, it's just a bit warm." Open your damned eyes, man.
Had this argument with my dad yesterday
He just regurgitates what the Sun/ Mail / Farage tells him
Before Ref, Farage on QT : "we can be an independent successful nation out of the EU, just like Norway" - Big cheers from the leavers in audience
After Ref, Farage on QT "Norway deal isn't Brexit, it's a betrayal" - Big cheers from the leavers in audience
Brexit has caused me to lose a lot of respect for my dad
So from a remainers point of view whats the best case scenario ? It looks like the votes are there for the bill so is our only hope now a 2nd ref amendment attached to it ? I thinks its to late for the whole VONC thing and government of unity , to many egos getting the way to get it done , should of done it weeks ago .
If you haven’t seen this shit before or can’t see it happening I am guessing you are in your 20’s.
I wish i was in my 20’s!
So from a remainers point of view whats the best case scenario ?
I am getting to the point where I think it's time to join the Brexodus and just leave the ****wits to it. I'm 60, so whatever happens I'm not going to live to see this mess sorted out. I'll take myself and my money somewhere else and watch it from a distance.
If you’re in any doubt what the present Tory party want to do with workers rights then take a glance at the book Brittania Unchained Written by Liz Truss,Dominic Raab and Priti Patel.
It’s all there in black and white. They want to basically do away with the stuff we presently take for granted. Paid holiday, maternity leave, sick pay, restrictions on working hours, the minimum wage.. the lot, gone, if they get their way
onewheelgood - that's the kind of selfish view that has got us where we are today.
So from a remainers point of view whats the best case scenario ?
Nigel farage to pull a rubber mask off on question time to reveal the Jeremy Beadle has pranked the entire nation?
I just had 3 police cars fly past me so I foolishly switched to my local radio station. Radio Kent, and somewhat randomly a call in hosted by Lembit Opik.
It has been a thoroughly depressing experience. Caller after caller of retirement age singing the praises of Johnson, ranting that MPs and "Remainers" are traitors and harping on about what a great deal Johnson has negotiated.
It scares me that this particular generation is so sure of themselves and are so blind to the damage that is being done. Someone once told me that this voting group would be incredibly powerful if they could ever get organised. That turns out to be very true.
I've no idea of Opik's take on Brexit but I certainly admire his patience with dopey people though.
There is the obvious workers right that will be removed, and that is the right to take ones labour freely to any other EU nation without issue.
As for regulations, I’ve already mentioned how I believe the UK will become a second tier country when it comes to access to new medicines.
The MHRA is not leading the clinical review of any new medicines in the EU now. Either they will work like Switzerland (submission after EU approval a year or so later) or we will accept the EMA decision as given.
What are where is your proof that leaving the EU will automatically be worse for workers rights and the enviroment?
Where’s your Proof they’ll be better then 🙂
Explain why you think they were moved from the withdrawal Agreement (legally enshrined in law )to the Pointless Decleration then ?
They were minimum standards that our government could improve upon them if they ever wanted but now they’re going to be something that can happily Be dropped without any interference from that pesky EU.
What are where is your proof that leaving the EU will automatically be worse for workers rights and the enviroment?
from Kier Starmers speach
<p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Pm's letter to President Tusk of 19th Aug, said the point of the exit was to allow the UK to diverge from rights and standards of EU. "Let's nail this one. You don't need that if you want to go up and have higher standards."</p>— Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) October 19, 2019
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<p lang="en" dir="ltr">"So anyone who wants to change the rule, is not doing it to have the freedom to have better standards. The only reason you need to diverge is if you want to go down."</p>— Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) October 19, 2019
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Starmer is (and has been) one of the few clear voices of logic and reason through all of this. Shame more people aren't listening.
Sadly, I feel a Starmer-led Labour party would not be in the sorry place the current one is. He's clearly got that on his mind though, since he categorically denied having thought about leadership on Marr this morning...
Agreed. There far too many people making an obscene amount of money out of this shit show. Whatever happens, a full investigation should be made into this, unfortunately privately funded though.
Explain why you think they were moved from the withdrawal Agreement (legally enshrined in law )to the Pointless Decleration then ?
Because they are no longer relevant to the Withdrawal Agreement because they were included as part of the Customs Union package which has been dropped, they will now be included in the negotiations for the trade deal envisaged by the Political Declaration
Because they are no longer relevant to the Withdrawal Agreement because they were included as part of the Customs Union package which has been dropped, they will now be included in the negotiations for the trade deal envisaged by the Political Declaration
I was being vexatious 😉
Your spot on thou, they’ll most ‘likely‘ be back in any EU-U.K. trade deal assuming our leaders actually want one.
They were protected now they’re precariously dependent on a deal 🙁
they’ll most ‘likely‘ be back in any EU-U.K. trade deal assuming our leaders actually want one
Or they do a trade deal that does not have them (maybe a slight worse trade deal because of not having them) but nobody will notice as in the eyes of the public Brexit has been 'done'
They were removed because the new government more strongly prioritises deregulation, especially as regards workers rights, than the one before. And because it wants the votes of Conservative MPs who have been vocally complaining that the all UK customs union backstop was not the only problem with the previous Withdrawl Agreement, and that promises as regards a “level playing field” tied our hands as regards becoming “more competitive” and signing trade deals with third countries, so had to be removed for them to vote in favour of a new WA.
^^^^^
Yep your all right the’re technical and political reasons for the move but cynically I think it’s the only way he could sell it.
Brought to you regards of the wet dream team of Britannia Unchained.
(Sort of gives the game away if you publish a big book on your views)
Farmers are being forced to leave millions of apples, and many other fruits and vegetables, rotting in orchards and fields because of a shortage of workers.
One hundred tonnes of fruit has gone unpicked in Britain already this season, meaning more than 16 million apples so far have been left to rot at the peak of harvest season due to a Brexit-led employment slump.
Because they are no longer relevant to the Withdrawal Agreement because they were included as part of the Customs Union package which has been dropped, they will now be included in the negotiations for the trade deal envisaged by the Political Declaration
Not sure if cynically or naively reposting No 10 propaganda here.
The ERG spent the last year telling us that they were opposed to Mays deal because of the backstop.
Johnson switches it for a frontstop! that brings reunification that much closer & they ditch the DUP straight away. The obvious reason they all have raging semis on over Johnson's deal is that it's an opportunity to do away with 'burdensome' rights & protections. The hard right have been driving the Tory party for some time now, anyone with even half a brain can see what they think they'll get out of this.
Keir Starmer is absolutely right - the EU isn't holding us back from introducing enhanced environmental, consumer and employment protections.
This whole sorry mess is about creating a crisis and driving a desperate England into the orbit of America. The loonies are even prepared to sacrifice Northern Ireland and Scotland to do so - in fact, Scottish independence is a positive outcome as it will entail sharing a land border with the European Union. Make no mistake, Project Brexit needs access to EU markets.
I'm pleased to see that four-fifth's of Labour's power brokers have woken up and are openly trying to kneecap the WA.
On the subject of the Labour front bench, Diane Abbott received a lot of abuse from a small but vocal far right presence at Parliament Square on Saturday, far worse than anything that might have been directed at Andrea Leadsom.
Sshh… BBC balance means that pointing out some “shame on you” chants are “aggressive” is essential to counter any narrative of death threats and inciting violence from “the other side”.
far worse than anything that might have been directed at Andrea Leadsom.
It isn't a bloody competition, folk hurling abuse at anyone, especially children ought to be ashamed of themselves.
It isn’t a bloody competition, folk hurling abuse at anyone, especially children ought to be ashamed of themselves.
I never intended to imply that it was a competition, but the abuse directed at Abbott in particular was bloody shameful.
As for JRM, he made a point of walking to the HoC with his son in tow, not using the Westminster car park. That does not in any way mean that individuals had any right to hurl abuse at a twelve year old boy, but I believe that JRM could've done more to have shielded his son from protests.
One hundred tonnes of fruit has gone unpicked in Britain already this season,
Uk apple harvest is about 500,000 tonnes so 100t isn't significant . If you pay workers a decent wage they'll come.
Money isn’t everything, as Brexit fans keeps telling us while pushing to financially punish the rest of us… you can pay all you want, but if you’re telling people they aren’t welcome, they’ll go elsewhere.
Uk apple harvest is about 500,000 tonnes
Where did you get that figure from? Seems “a tad” inflated… and also closely matches the figure for Apple imports, rather than the size of the UK harvest, which might be a coincidence.
If you pay workers a descent wage they’ll come
...they'll come on down.
As for JRM, he made a point of walking to the HoC with his son in tow, not using the Westminster car park. That does not in any way mean that individuals had any right to hurl abuse at a twelve year old boy, but I believe that JRM could’ve done more to have shielded his son from protests.
Haven't seen it. Was his son getting abuse or was he just there while his father was getting abuse? Because let's face it, he was always going to find out his father was a prick eventually.
Haven’t seen it. Was his son getting abuse or was he just there while his father was getting abuse?
Widely shared on social media. JRM jnr wasn't the recipient of abuse from what I've seen, but it's absolutely not right for anyone to involve an MP's family. JRM could've parked in the designated (and policed) car park under the HoP, but he chose not to. Likewise, JRM turned up to the HoC today via chauffeur driven car which he could've done on Saturday.
Because let’s face it, he was always going to find out his father was a prick eventually.
While I agree 100% that JRM is a colossal phallus, no twelve year old should be in the position to hear this from a crowd, however small.
Leadsom also had the option of arriving at the HoP via a car, but she chose not to. Diane Abbott arrived at Parliament Square to speak in public after casting her vote on Saturday. She received more abuse than Keir Starmer, John McDonnell or Emily Thornberry. I suspect that we all know the reason why.
Widely shared on social media. JRM jnr wasn’t the recipient of abuse from what I’ve seen, but it’s absolutely not right for anyone to involve an MP’s family. JRM could’ve parked in the designated (and policed) car park under the HoP, but he chose not to. Likewise, JRM turned up to the HoC today via chauffeur driven car which he could’ve done on Saturday.
Well, sounds like JRM got the result he was looking for. Tabloid outrage. Probably didn't give a shit what effect it might have on his son.
An MP should be able to take their kid to work and not get harassed while doing so, whoever they are.
On the whole, while some protestors against Brexit are getting louder and angrier and crossing lines that most would agree that they shouldn’t, the really threatening behaviour is still mostly one sided.
I fear that could change though, when major politicians say that “Brexit must happen otherwise there will be civil unrest”… some misguided fools will take this to mean that threatening civil unrest is now how you get purchase on policy, and the rot will spread beyond the pro-Brexit protestors.
Well, sounds like JRM got the result he was looking for. Tabloid outrage.
There's a great deal of manufactured outrage in the press right now, people like Mark Francois and Daniel Kawczinski are doing their level best to hype it.
Probably didn’t give a shit what effect it might have on his son.
That's not for me to speculate upon. However, politicians using their kids for political currency is nothing new. Remember when John Gummer and his four year old daughter ate hamburgers for the press at the height of the BSE outbreak?
Well, sounds like JRM got the result he was looking for. Tabloid outrage.
From Facebook just now, re: this story being run in the Sun:
The story is fake news. I was there when he walked out of the backdoor of Parliament. We were a small jubilant crowd of Remainers being heckled by a rowdy bunch of Leavers ranting about the 17.4 etc. The two sides were engaged in lively but civil banter. There was no violence. I spoke to one of the police curious about his space-age backpack. He joked about it containing sandwiches then explained it was to transmit video to HQ of anyone making trouble. He said they’d used it only once earlier and complimented the crowd for being good tempered. A slow but steady stream of MPs were emerging from Parliament in black tinted window cars to be sped away. Emily Thornberry and other familiar Remain MPs were happy to face the crowd and emerged on foot to be cheered. They needed no guard in spite of heckling from Brexiters. Kate Hoey walked out alone ignoring us jeering Remainers. No harm done. Bill Cash walked out alone to face jeers. No harm done. Rees-Mogg and Ledsom had lined up a police guard to be ready and waiting for them as they came out on foot. Of course the Brexit crowd cheered them and the Remainers jeered. I witnessed no violence. There was no risk of violence - others had walked out to no harm. But there was no reason for them to be on foot. They too could have left discreetly behind tinted glass instead of dramatically marked out by a yellow coated guard. It was a staged event designed to generate news footage that could be reported as negative towards the Remain campaign. Rees-Mogg had a smirk on his face, because he knew exactly what he would be reading in the papers the next day. What really distressed me is that even The Guardian reported this fake news story, clearly not taking the trouble to check their source. No wonder getting Leavers to hear the truth is so hard.
Where did you get that figure from? Seems “a tad” inflated…
Guardian article.
The data also shows there isn’t a thriving export market for British fruit. According to the Produce Marketing Association, Britain imports more than 476,000 tonnes of apples, but only export 14,800 tonnes (3%) of our own. Over the past two decades, the UK has become increasingly reliant on imports, with a self-sufficiency rate of just 11% in fruit.
If 3% of harvest is 14,800 tonnes full harvest is 493,333 tonnes.
but I believe that JRM could’ve done more to have shielded his son from protests.
He made me do it, your honour. Don't get me wrong I've no time for JRM, but you understand that you're victim blaming here?
Ah, that 3% is a comparison to the imports, I think… UK apples used to be about 200K tonnes… with half of that being for cider… back when I lived in cider country and went on an apple tour/talk. It could be larger now I suppose, but 500k tonnes would be huge growth (and welcome).
He made me do it, your honour. Don’t get me wrong I’ve no time for JRM, but you understand that you’re victim blaming here?
Let's be absolutely clear, JRM's son was the victim and I do not believe for one moment that he had any agency in what transpired.
As for "victim blaming" can you please point to anything I've written that states that I'm happy for a twelve year old boy to be on the receiving end of abuse from a crowd?
JRM a victim, dear me, you'll be rewriting history next. How about portraying the French royals as victims in the révolution.
Jo Cox was a victim, JRM is an agressor.
On the whole, while some protestors against Brexit are getting louder and angrier
And about time too. Nothing will ever change with 'good natured' marches through London which are little more than 'who can make the most amusing banner' competitions.
On another issue, I wonder how many centrist anti-Corbyn labour MPs will vote against their constituents interests today? Anyone any guesses? I presume we're all in agreement that they should be kicked out of the party when they do?
If you pay workers a decent wage they’ll come.
How much more do you want to pay for apples? How about food bank users or those in dire poverty, how much more do you think they'd like to pay?
Not a simple issue unless we have a socialist revolution.
After googling… the most recent figure I can find is 150k tonnes. It doesn’t negate your point @taxi25, but throwing around questionable figures rather than sharing genuine experience and knowledge is how we got here. Anyone who knows what they are talking about care to add to this…? I’d love for the UK apple production to be much larger, and happy to be wrong. Oh, a timely reminder that you really should only be buying UK apples this time of year, if you can.
can you please point to anything I’ve written that states that I’m happy for a twelve year old boy to be on the receiving end of abuse from a crowd?
Apart from the bit where you said JRM could've done more? That's essentially you saying it was JRMS fault for putting his son in that environment, when it's clearly the fault of those shouting at his son. No one should be abused, verbally or otherwise, not Children, not women, and not even JRM.
That's enough from me on this, I reckon.
Apart from the bit where you said JRM could’ve done more? That’s essentially you saying it was JRMS fault for putting his son in that environment, when it’s clearly the fault of those shouting at his son. No one should be abused, verbally or otherwise, not Children, not women, and not even JRM.
He and his colleagues use language specifically designed to raise emotions and then he deliberately places his son in a position to be on the receiving end when emotions overflow and that's not even a tiny bit his fault?
I'm pretty poor at this whole fatherhood thing but his kids should be taken into care.
No one should be abused, verbally
I disagree. There are many situations in which people need be forcefully verbally reproached for anti-social behaviour. JRM is the epitomy of anti-social behaviour, wilfully personally profitting from his own actions that are detrimental to millions.
The driver of a truck got a mouthful from me after blowing his horn at me (or rather the driver of the car in front of him who slowed as he passed me)this morning. He had to brake because I was walking along a road without a pavement and a high wall on both sides. What I didn't do was drag him from the cab or grab one of the loose logs he was carrying and smash up his truck (or him). A proportional verbal response, that's all I gave and that's all JRM is getting.