* Puts kettle on and settles down to wait for the good news.

Whats scares me now is the realisation that maybe this isn't a shambles at all. They just want it to look like that. Maybe they know exactly what they're doing. As Milton Friedmans doctrine dictated - never waste a good crisis.

Thats why we're not being told anything about the backroom deals being done. It shows your where the priorities are when bankers and big business are being reassured (all behind closed doors) while the public, and parliament, is being told nothing at all.

I suspect that the reassurances being made regard that pesky 'red tape'. I think that what they're being told is "you know all that EU stuff - workers rights? Environmental controls? Health and safety? Regulation of any sort? Yeah, well you won't need to be worrying about all that shit for too much longer. Trust us"

They've taken back control alright.

good news....well

UKIP have imploded
Cameron is disgraced (tho replaced by more of the same tbh)
The Lib Dems have seen a path out of the darkness
I think more foreign tourists are visiting and spending (tho more foreigners obvs contra to to the will of the people)

Im sure there is some real genuine good news???

why there is no discussion ?

Perhaps it's because Brexit supporters & the goons in charge have a reputation for dishonesty, BS & obfuscation??

I'd happily have a discussion but it's very difficult to do so when the other side is less than honest.......

For a start, when one side makes a claim e.g. £350m a week on the NHS.....which is then disowned like a fart in a lift as soon as the stink hits the nostrils!

Im sure there is some real genuine good news???

The circle jerk of negativity continues at pace I see. Take all good news and mix with bile until you are consumed with bitterness.

[quote=binners ]Whats scares me now is the realisation that maybe this isn't a shambles at all. They just want it to look like that. Maybe they know exactly what they're doing. As Milton Friedmans doctrine dictated - never waste a good crisis.
Thats why we're not being told anything about the backroom deals being done. Shows your where the priorities are when bankers and big business is being reassured (all behind closed doors) while the public, and parliament, is being told nothing at all.
I suspect that the reassurances being made regard that pesky 'red tape'. I think that what they're being told is "you know all that EU stuff - workers rights? Environmental controls? Health and safety? Regulation of any sort? Yeah, well you won't need to be worrying about all that shit for too much longer. Trust us"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-speech-tory-conference-2016-in-full-transcript-a7346171.html

I want to set our party and our country on the path towards the new centre ground of British politics…built on the values of fairness and opportunity…[b]where everyone plays by the same rules[/b]

It was about a sense – deep, profound and let’s face it often justified – that [b]many people have today that the world works well for a privileged few, but not for them[/b].

[b]An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…[/b]

A plan that will mean government stepping up. Righting wrongs. [b]Challenging vested interests.[/b] Taking big decisions. Doing what we believe to be right. Getting the job done.

etc etc

Lying, evil, two-faced, self serving, elitist arseholes

Why are you lot so negative?

Things have never been better for all of us including me.

Be happy and let's work together.

Let it go, let it go or you will just consume yourself with heartburn.

I suspect we will find out what the deal was at somepoint as the EU will investigate incase we have broken the rules on state aid, and the WTO investigate incase we have broken the rules on 'dumping'.

Unless we are planning on not even using the WTO trade agreement as well now.

Why are you lot so negative?

Things have never been better for all of us including me.

Be happy and let's work together.

Let it go, let it go or you will just consume yourself with heartburn.

Chewkw earlier:

[img] /revision/latest?cb=20070509205527[/img]

richc - Member
I suspect we will find out what the deal was at somepoint as the EU will investigate incase we have broken the rules on state aid, and the WTO investigate incase we have broken the rules on 'dumping'.

Unless we are planning on not even using the WTO trade agreement as well now.

Let them do whatever they want rather than waiting for you lot to spin.

richc - Member
Chewkw earlier:

I don't even know what the pic is about. Honest.
Is that a treatment or some experiment?

Why are you lot so negative?

Because I can see loads of huge problems piling up for us, as can many others.

Your own positivity in the face of everyone else's serious concern should indicate that we all might have a point.

It would not surprise me at all if the lack of detail is related to "state aid" questions

Portes makes interesting reading

http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/nissan-brexit-and-industrial-strategy#.WBMlgyjSybC

Jambas - two v simple questions posed

1. Why is "paying" Nissan to do something it was already doing positive?
2. Why would they be happy with profits earned being 15% or so less in their reporting currency?

two equally simple answers......?

from passporting to equivalence - a third question. How do you spin that as a positive for financial services?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-26/banks-likely-to-lose-passporting-with-brexit-u-k-official-says

I don't even know what the pic is about. Honest.
Is that a treatment or some experiment?

It's a guy having a labotomy I think 😯

The circle jerk of negativity continues at pace I see. Take all good news and mix with bile until you are consumed with bitterness.

I'm so disappointed. Came here to read your latest rediculous lies and all we get is this??

Please don't give up Jambalaya. Not on a Friday. The rest of the day is going to drag without your comedic input.

What good news Jamba? Go on - one single piece of good news from this shambles

One single piece of good news among the BS?

My investments have had a great run as a result. Overly exposed to FTSE 100 (phew) and high divi stocks. An unexpected surprise. Mrs THM even took some money off the table >7000. She trades well!!

the positive news is that the Mittys have done rather well out of all this

The circle jerk of negativity continues at pace I see. Take all good news and mix with bile until you are consumed with bitterness.

All tiresomely predicable, molgrips you wonder why there is no discussion ?

The circle jerk of [s]negativ[/s]positivity continues at pace I see. Take all good news and mix with hope until you are consumed with [s]bitterness[/s] unbridled joy.

Even with the news that Nissan will single handedly save the uk the arse drops out of the economy even more.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/28/ftse-100-slides-and-pound-stuck-below-122-as-uk-consumers-fear-p/&ved=0ahUKEwi805X5rf3PAhXjHJoKHXTMCjgQFgg_MAs&usg=AFQjCNHNSi-kpUgU5M5jUY6a1YDSPILSLA&sig2=kv71jqSIdOjFCEHNRatMPg

I wonder if jamba is feeling bregret now that his next mac is going to cost a few hundred more....?

Nissan aren't being paid to do something they already were doing. Those models could have gone to another plant in Europe.

They had to make a decision ASAP as to where it goes so they can get started to ensure its released into the market before the current models get so outdated they get overtaken by rivals and stop selling.

I would hope if any other major company had such a decision to make in such a timeframe then they could also approach the government and get a similar assurance.

"assurance" - cough

381 pages?
Shit the bed, is this the longest thread ever?

are you Tracey Emin?

I would hope if any other major company had such a decision to make in such a timeframe then they could also approach the government and get a similar assurance.

What assurances though ?

According to Reuters:

Britain has given Nissan a written commitment of extra support in the event that Brexit reduces the competitiveness of its Sunderland plant, in return for new production investments by the Japanese carmaker, a source with knowledge of the matter told Reuters. In addition to unconditional investment aid, Britain pledged in a letter to offer further relief if the terms of Britain's European Union exit ended up harming the plant's performance, the source said.

these kind ?

so will other industries be subsidised by the taxpayer too

pharma?
aerospace?

can I get a subsisdised macbook at a pre-referndum price ?

[quote=kimbers ]so will other industries be subsidised by the taxpayer too
pharma?
aerospace?
can I get a subsisdised macbook at a pre-referndum price ?

If passporting is lost then I'm out of a job so I'll be hoping we add the insurance industry to the list of government supported industries

I'm in, whens the vote?

the re-run is in 2019, 😉

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/british-pride-restored-by-grovelling-to-japanese-car-company-20161028116147

After three....And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen ........ etc.

[i]Things have never been better for all of us including me.[/I]

Yes, and you want to throw that all away for Brexit?

So the tories are throwing away any pretence of the market when it comes to private companies but are still intent on shafting the NHS.

Can someone say if this is realistic, US numbers are good, and if clintin wins both are pro US dollar. If the US economy looks good interest rates rise there making the currency stronger. Would this then force the pound lower in the absvence of good UK news? NB abscence of good news rather than bad news.

Next obvious issue is the outcomes of French and German elections next year but they are a long way off so for now I am guessing have very little impact on euro gbp?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/28/tony-blair-remain-voters-to-mobilise-against-brexit

Bring back the Blair 😀

Blair, a critic of the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, said he did not support the creation of a new political party but he hinted in a recent interview with GQ that he could be ready for a return to politics.

[img] [/img]

Apple's ageing Mac Pro now costs £500 more than it did a week ago

Morrisons raises Marmite price by 12.5%

this is going to get expensive.

Yes but a Nissan's going to cheaper because of Jambernomics.

yay pink convertible micras for all.

I'm just looking forward to the return of Blair, bring on the illegal wars and Britpop please!

At least the times were a bit rock n roll!

Captain I didn't say a Nissan was going to be cheaper in the UK (contrary is true) I said a Nissan sold in Europe was going to be more profitable.

Kimbers I buy a new Mac once every 7 years at current rate of consumption and a new iPhone/iPad every 3-4 so cost change is small, hardly noticable. Last bought a car in 2007, expecting next car to be used possibly at a higher price as prices rise

Jambas since you around I refer back to my earlier questions. This is the note from Nissan's most recent accounts

The Group’s finished cars, are produced in 20 countries and regions, and are sold in more than 170 countries. The Group’s procurement activities for raw materials, parts/components and services are conducted in many countries. [b]As the consolidated financial statements of the Group are calculated and presented in Japanese yen, the appreciation of the yen against other currencies adversely affects Group’s financial results of operations,[/b] in general. In contrast, the depreciation of the yen against other currencies favorably affects Group’s financial results of operations.

 

Doe's that mean we have to start compensating Nissan already? 😉

Captain I didn't say a Nissan was going to be cheaper in the UK (contrary is true) I said a Nissan sold in Europe was going to be more profitable.

The latest pictures of Carlos Ghosn bear an uncanny resemblance to the late David Gest - re-incarnation anyone?

It's a sad day when I want Tony Blair back.
Well done Theresa you make that scum bag look good.

Theresa's a remainer - she has a mandate to execute though - what should she do to keep you happy?

Go "d'you know what? This is bloody stupid - let's stay". I might even vote Tory.

None of this is complicated - Theresa May can not let the Nissans walk away the long term consequences for the uk economy are catastrophic if she let's this happen, so if we assume no cheque book has been opened then it's a 99% guarantee that we will remain in the customs union as a minimum (and probably the single market) this could also indicate that the reason the government is unwilling of discuss it's strategy is that it may not be what the knuckle draggers , far right, Brexiteers to see the "true" course of discussions - single market customs union free movement. This could be bloody interesting.

what should she do to keep you happy?

Rent a bedsit and take a massive overdose of barbiturates

looking at the exchange rate, Apple calling a 20% hike, microsoft 22%, marmite 12.5% etc next year when the real price rises start how long till the low paid start screaming from price hikes? At what point does the whole debacle get pulled?

Rent a bedsit and take a massive overdose of barbiturates

and take a home away from the proletariat... Sounds pretty inconsiderate when she already has a government funded home... Bet she would expense it too... 😈

She can't guarantee anything - she is about to enter a very protracted and complex set of negotiations with a relatively weak hand. Hence one has to assume that there are financial guarantees being offered that should be transparent. It's our money after all.

So we are getting back to the 60s and 70s with givernments adopting an industry strategy (?) involving them making choices on who to favour and by how much in an opaque manner. Governemnts track record in the former is appalling but much better in the latter. A lose:lose. And people claim that this is a lurch to the right.

"Commanding heights......"

Oh dear, the price of tea bags is going up.

At what point does the whole debacle get pulled?

Sadly it won't, cabbie today rather stand on his racist principles than take money from Lilly Allen.

People will be worse off, the poorest hit hardest, and they'll still agree with the Sun, Mail etc that 'we've taken back control !'

Double post

cchris2lou - Member
Oh dear, the price of tea bags is going up.

What artisan rip off tea bags are you buying?

I am drinking £4.99/900g of Brooke Bond Taj (Assam) loose tea from Tesco? 😆

I don't drink tea.
Typhoo are saying that drop in £ is not sustainable for their business.
Black tea trades in $.

cchris2lou - Member
I don't drink tea.
Typhoo are saying that drop in £ is not sustainable for their business.
Black tea trades in $.

There are only few reasonable priced drinkable teas in the UK that you don't get rip off for. Typhoo is certainly not one of them.

I would recommend the following loose tea:

Yorkshire tea - green or red package both good.
Waitrose own brand surprisingly fine.
PG Tips.
Also Tesco Brooke Bond Taj tea ... (offer is £4.99/900g normal retail £7/900) and I have nearly 12kg of Taj tea. Yes, 12kg.

and all of them will rise as the raw commodity is priced in USDs, the only question is how is this years harvest. Like most agricultural products depending on harvest the dollar price moves. It is perfectly possible that the price in GBP will be static if commondity price moves enough in the other direction.

mrmo - Member
and all of them will rise as the raw commodity is priced in USDs, the only question is how is this years harvest.

How much of the UK retail price of tea is dependent upon $ and how much is local in £ ?

Some inflation is a con (or even a slight pro) of a weaker fx rate. It's a very common strategy for a country to reduce its exchange rate to boost the economy. We have to set aside the benefit to the UK economy with higher prices for imported goods. Note higher prices will improve the trade deficit as we will buy less foreign goods. Add that to more competitve exports and you can see why countries use a weaker fx rate to boost the economy.

It's widely acknowledged that the euro is of benefit to Germany as its MUCH weaker than the Deutsche Mark would be

TMH my point is the UK is a more attractive place to build Nissans for export to Europe than it was 6
months ago. Good for Nissan which is why they are confirming new car build. Post 2019 things are less
certain tariffs vs fx rate but Govt has made a deal.

Customs Union, Single Market. Depends on the conditions attached as to whether we will stay in either. Personally I think the "Single Market" is too much of a political hot potato for the EU to deal with - they are too wedded to their unnecessary link beyween trade and freedom of movement

Off to start a tea and coffee plantation in the Cumbria high country...

I can see an obvious problem with that Mike...

The sheep will eat the tea?

[quote=teamhurtmore ]Theresa's a remainer

Theresa's a longtime Eurosceptic who was in the Remain camp because like almost everything she does she thought it was good for her career.

Or she was sensible to realise that despite its many flaws, the benefits of being part of the EU (x Eurp, Schengen) outweighed the negatives. Perfectly rationale position.

Govt has made a deal

They claim they haven't Jamba. Are you suggesting this Brexy-government is lying? Surely not.

Yep we've taken back control, Nissan calling the shots, may, does what she's told.

[img] [/img]

In other entirely predictable news. It's not Brexiters fault, is Apple price gouging according to the Heil

[img] [/img]

Perfectly rationale position.

May I see your evidence?

mikewsmith - Member
Off to start a tea and coffee plantation in the Cumbria high country..

probably a reasonable hedge against climate change 😉

afterall this exists

http://weeteacompany.com/scottish-tea/dalreoch.html

TMH my point is the UK is a more attractive place to build Nissans for export to Europe than it was 6
months ago.

Yes - you said that. And THM explained why it ain't the case. Are you going to support your statement with rational argument? Or are you just going to keep repeating it ad nauseam?*

(* that is a rhetorical question. In fact we all know the answer already.)

Its so attractive they needed cast iron guarantees from the govt that they would "protect" them from the oncoming [s]storm [/s] sorry brilliant opportunity for Blighty to be mighty once more.

aracer - Member

The sheep will eat the tea?

Yes - you said that. And THM explained why it ain't the case. Are you going to support your statement with rational argument? Or are you just going to keep repeating it ad nauseam?*

TBF to Jambas, the answer is not clear cut. His point is clearly falsifiable though, if you think about from the parent company level.

Nissan just played a smart game and spoofed the government,

I can see an obvious problem with that Mike...

yes coffee and tea are completely alcohol free......and everyone is going to need a stiff drink everyday for the next 20 or so years

big_n_daft - Member
afterall this exists
> http://weeteacompany.com/scottish-tea/dalreoch.html

aracer - Member
The sheep will eat the tea?

kimbers - Member
Yep we've taken back control, Nissan calling the shots, may, does what she's told.

Nissan is just getting political because of its French master stirring up the dirt so let them be. Their action is predictable so if they want to go then go.

Sure, lets just throw 7,000 immediate jobs and 20,000 supply chain jobs on the bonfire. That's taking back control.

I do think that some brexiters are genuinely deranged. Not just slightly unhinged, or misinformed, but truly lacking a major part of their brain that deals with logic.

Nissan is just getting political because of its French master stirring up the dirt so let them be. Their action is predictable..

Keep up chewkw. Nissan have been given secret [i]"support and assurance"[/i] by the government and now say they are staying for at least the next couple of model runs.

All very dodgy, but as the first visible major manufacturing decision after the vote we really couldn't afford for it to go any other way, so probably for the best.

...so if they want to go then go.

You'd be quite happy to wave goodbye to one-third of UK car manufacturing and 7000 jobs for the sake of sticking up two fingers at the Japanese/French? 😯

Brexit was correct we do need to be saved from these foreigners who come over here with their strange ways

If a political party was voted in that had managed to create as much of a **** up as we are currently in how long before a vote of no confidence?

zokes - Still not a customer
Sure, lets just throw 7,000 immediate jobs and 20,000 supply chain jobs on the bonfire. That's taking back control.

GrahamS - Member
Keep up chewkw. Nissan have been given secret "support and assurance" by the government and now say they are staying for at least the next couple of model runs.

All very dodgy, but as the first visible major manufacturing decision after the vote we really couldn't afford for it to go any other way, so probably for the best.