surely "no deal" is a betrayal to all the people who were told and subsequently believed that this would be "the easiest deal in the history of easy deals"?
Roumors that Labour will whip for the amendment on ‘Super Saturday’ to include a second ref for the presumably now known deal Vs remain.
That would be amazeballs!
[i]not so cloak and dagger then[/i]
If I had a couple of hundred Mil available to make a killing with, I would most certainly have a team of people with their ears to the ground watching everything - in the UK and in Brussels. People like that don't wait to find stuff out "on the BBC".
Tony Connelly is best plugged in for the Irish side and if I had to choose a UK correspondent it would be James Forsyth, but he isn’t as consistent as the other two.
James Forsyth just repeats whatever press release cummings/CCHQ tell him to
My local MP is a full fat ERG no deal Brexit headbanger.
He's all over his facebook / twitter triumphantly claiming a "Great new brexit deal", with Tory central office produced graphics of BoJo standing statesman like against a union jack flag.
So it seems like Bo jo has somehow got the Tory headbangers into line at least. The same MP, who recently was lauding the DUP Stalwarts is also now syaing their a roadblock to the Brexit dream.
They're going under the bus.
Apparently they're going to ask the EU not to back another extension - leaving parliament to choose between this deal & no deal...
Of course he won't. If he did he wouldn't be able to get his Red Unicorn Brexit.
So as I understand it on Saturday there will be a debate with a potential amendment added to the deal for a 2nd referendum which as off a couple of days ago there wasn’t a parliamentary majority for , then a vote on Boris’s deal which could be very close if the ERG vote with him and enough labour rebels do to . Is that about right ?
Of course he won’t. If he did he wouldn’t be able to get his Red Unicorn Brexit.
I still think this could move… and this week. Watch this space… a referendum followed by an election could well be coming… with Labour making it happen… and I still think this means us leaving May next year… but obviously will be voting against that myself, given the chance to do so.
Of course he won’t. If he did he wouldn’t be able to get his Red Unicorn Brexit.
Why would labour support a deal which is worse than the one they previously rejected?
Seems like a stitch up, on saturday they want the vote to be an either BoJo deal or No deal. THat doesnt seem rgith to me, and not the normal way the parliment works
Why would labour support a deal which is worse than the one they previously rejected?
So Labour won't support a second referendum until they've had their chance at the unicorn?
There is no better deal. Corbyn knows it. Everyone knows it. It's yet another way of avoiding putting it back to the people.
Why would labour support a deal which is worse than the one they previously rejected?
Your regular reminder that supporting a referendum on any particular deal is not the same as supporting that deal.
There is no better deal.
May's deal was better. Yet everyone agreed that it was still not good enough and it was rightly rejected. So why should this one be voted through? Would you not prefer the choice between a better deal and remain in a new referendum?
Would you not prefer the choice between a better deal and remain in a new referendum?
When?
It might be time to bring this to a head. Especially if the alternative is the current deal getting passed in parliament without a referendum.
If it genuinely was a choice, now, between a referendum on this deal, or a referendum on a deal with closer alignment on customs and workers rights etc, then obviously the second is preferable. That’s not the case though, is it.
Would you not prefer the choice between a better deal and remain in a new referendum?
You mean a choice between a Unicorn deal and Remain? Sure, I would prefer that but guess what, it ain't going to happen.
Or am I just thinking too negatively?
this round of negotiation has further proved that in order for the Good Friday Agreement to be honoured we need customs union across all of the UK. Theresa's WA didn't fly, Johnson's agreement won't either and a GE will deliver another stalemate. time for a people's vote on the options
Can't see this deal passing, Farage says it shit, but I fancy he would because he fancies an 8th (or possibly 9th?) Crack at becoming an MP. Not that he directly matters, but he's a decent barometer of what the ERG think.
The DUP don't like it, well they're the DUP they don't dislike anything, they jump straight to hate every time.
The SNP won't vote for it.
Plaid & Greens won't vote for it.
Labour won't because the Centrists are remain and it's the wrong kind of Brexit for the Socalists.
Which only leaves the Tories with their -42 majority... some of the ERG might vote for it, Lord only knows why, it's meaningfully the same as the May deal on the bits they care about. The Party faithful might vote for it, you can bet they'll whip for it.
Of course Corbyn is the bloody kingmaker again, I do wish he'd **** off for a bit, we could have this Brexit BS nailed in a box a fortnight if he'd just give up on this Red Unicorn Brexit idea, his Party doesn't like it, the Country doesn't like, Parliament doesn't like it. the EU don't know about it (well officially) yet. Still Momentum won't let him go, they'd rather risk another 5 years under Boris, rather than 5 years under another Leader who's not quite as Red as Corbyn, but that's idealists for you.
MPs win bid to hold second referendum vote
MPs have won a key parliamentary vote paving the way for a Commons bid to secure a second referendum on Saturday.
Tory backbencher Sir Oliver Letwin led a successful bid to allow backbench MPs to amend Boris Johnson's Brexit plans, in a knife edges vote that passed by 287 votes to 275.
What has Johnson promised the EU if Juncker is coming out with no further extension.
Not even for a referendum?
The clever* bit has emerged; part of the deal struck by Johnson is that the EU will rule out an extension; making it Johnson’s deal or no deal, attempting to rule out Johnson’s deal vs remain.
*We’ll see.
What has Johnson promised the EU if Juncker is coming out with no further extension.
Not even for a referendum?
I can't see them saying no to another referendum on the deal vs revoke. If that's the case and Corbyn still won't support it then any shred of a doubt I had about him being vaguely competent will be gone.
I watched Junkers speech - he didn’t rule out an extension. He said “We don’t need an extension as we have a deal”
It is being reported by the BBC that Juncker has ruled out a further extension.
Hah! No deal it is then, unless this is an EU bluff to trip up the ERG.
I watched Junkers speech – he didn’t rule out an extension. He said “We don’t need an extension as we have a deal”
But this is what I heard.
agree Junckers comment is being reported a bit different to how he said it.
https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1184823017442033666
From BBC website…
The European Commission President says he spoke to Boris Johnson 30 minutes ago about the prospect of an extension.
Jean-Claude Juncker told reporters: "I was ruling out that there would be any kind of prolongation.
"If we have a deal we have a deal and there is no need for prolongation.
"That is the British view and that is my view too."
Asked about whether the Commons would allow it, he said: "I am not in charge of Parliamentary affairs of Britain."
Guardian has a breakdown of what Juncker said
Interpret it how you wish. It’s down to the UK parliament now, is my interpretation. UK gov and EU not talking about an extension. By 11pm Saturday, they probably will be.
It’ll be no deal - Labour can’t be seen backing it, DUP won’t and neither will the ERG (who will now smell the potential for a no deal brexit).
Ooft. Nailbiting season finale.
ERG have already lauded it as “a great deal”
If parliament votes this thing down, then the UK and EU don't have a deal.
Junckers comments really are not helpful. The deal is not a done thing within the UK.
Andy: "Want a deal."
Lou: "But Andy, you had a deal only last week."
Andy: "Yeah I know. Want that one."
Lou: "Well, OK Andy, we'll get you a deal. Here you go."
Andy: "Don't like it."
Lou: "Well, what a kerfuffle."
Junckers comments really are not helpful
They're helpful for Boris...
Junker has clarified his comments
About to get on a plane back but just on Juncker’s words on extension. EU source says: “It’s not in his gift to rule it out, he is just defending the deal and saying one shouldn't be needed...I am 100% certain EU27 would permit an extension if deal falls on Saturday.”
EDIT:
P.S. Why is it that the more I learn about any subject the more I despair of the kneejerk TV media coverage.
ERG have already lauded it as “a great deal”
Without reading it. Lots of scope to row back from that position.
Is a binding referendum pitching this deal v remain now a realistic scenario without the a GE in between?
Or is it now this deal or extend and have a GE first?
What’s the odds on it getting exactly the same number of for and against votes as Mays deal?
Labour won’t support a ‘Tory Brexit’, the DUP wont support it, so neither will the ERG.
No deal, here we come!
That puts Nicola Sturgeon in a bit of a fix. She has consistently ruled out No Deal but can't possibly support a deal which leaves NI in a customs union that doesn't include Scotland.
Labour won’t support a ‘Tory Brexit’, the DUP wont support it, so neitgervwill the ERG.
No deal, here we come!
If the deal doesnt make it through parliament, then an extension is requested via the Benn act/amendment
I suspect the only way the deal could make it through parliament is with a ref2 amendment attached, Bojos deal Vs remain.
Interpret it how you wish
Britain started off asking to leave and ended up being kicked out.
If you go back to the start of the thread, not even the most extreme brexiters were in favour of a Brexit this hard. It's Norway minus all the good bits.
useful
this guy gves johnson a 10% chance of getting vote thru commons unscathed
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHFd6M8XUAAVj8L?format=jpg
What has Johnson promised the EU if Juncker is coming out with no further extension.
Not even for a referendum?
It's a terrifying prospect, I can't tell whether he's trying to encourage Centrics to vote for it to avoid no-deal, or to encourage them to shoot it down an push ahead with the VONC to try to end it all.
He might just be as fed up with the whole thing as everyone else.
Sensationist headlines at BBC in my opinion, Jucker was saying there's no need for an extension because of [s]May deal 1.4[/s] Boris deal.
scotroutes
Member
That puts Nicola Sturgeon in a bit of a fix. She has consistently ruled out No Deal but can’t possibly support a deal which leaves NI in a customs union that doesn’t include Scotland.
sturgeon is fine
https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1184833950193213441