I think a lot of people are being a bit mean about the current Membership of Parliament. Whilst there is obviously an element of careerism in it, i'd like to think it's not as significant as is being made out here.
Everyone is trying to make the best of a badly dealt hand, i think that has to be our starting point.
My MP - Jeremy Lefroy - is a superlative case in point - campaigned for Remain in what turned out to be a very Leave constituency. Has teetered precariously between 'honouring' the 52% and 'betraying' the 52% in almost equal measure, becoming one of the Mail's targets at one point as a 'traitor'. I think he might even have had his mugshot on the front page.
He's actually decided to stand down because of all of this sh*t, so our Conservative candidate for the next one will be Jacob Cream-Cracker's niece of all people.
Prior to '97 it was a safe seat that returned Bill '****ing' Cash to Parliament in perpetuity, but after a boundary change, the dash for Cash was to a safer seat in Stone.
In '97 the seat was lost to Labour, the Conservative candidate had been one Cameron, D.
I never voted for Lefroy, but he is the exact opposite of what you all seem to think is a bog standard MP - he went into the House hoping to make a difference. He's an advocate for support for African development via targeted aid, for example, which kind of makes you think. well why did you want to be the Conservative candidate? Seeing the Party he represented being no longer representative - let's not forget a long history of a more compassionate conservatism than is currently in favour - he's said goodbye - no flip-flopping, no tortuous leaps of logic, just a brief farewell.
Because nobody has a monopoly on what is right, we can only believe that what we think is right is so.
One thing i can be absolutely sure of is that Lefroy was never in it for himself.
Bear in mind that in Staffordshire, 96% of the population are White British.
No wonder, then, that they felt so threatened by the 'swarm' of immigrant 'cockroaches' blighting their homeland.
It was obviously a measured response to the crisis that engulfed them.
"... it is the rather dubious warming stripe graphic developed at Reading."
@mefty
It so obviously isn't. Is the infrequency of your involvement in any way related to the frequency of it being called out as bs?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50079385
Can't work out if this is a deal, can be ratified by all concerned before Saturday and we leave on 31st or if it can't be ratified by Saturday, does that mean another extension or...??
In the last 5 minutes on the BBC News website they proclaimed that BJ has agreed a deal with the EU, followed 30 seconds later with "the DUP say they can not support it".
BJ might get sufficient support from Labour MPs that the DUP vote isn't required.
I'm also reading on Twitter that the DUP have been offered a fortune for their co-operation .... so they may suddenly decide they can accept it after all ....
I think he's throwing the DUP under the bus and hoping enough of his former Tory colleagues and anti-Corbyn labour MPs (assuming Corbyn whips against it) vote for it to get it through.
I guess it all hinges on whether the ERG are willing to throw the DUP under the bus too.
The currency markets think no deal isn't going to happen and a customs union for all the UK is looking more likely even if Brexit ever happens:
https://www.onvista.de/devisen/Euro-Pfund-EUR-GBP
So now he needs to calculate whether he needs to offer the DUP something or not. He won't want to offer them anything if he doesn't need to, but he'd kick himself for losing the deal because we didn't offer them something when he could have. How big is his pot of money currently?
It's also possible that this is all a bit of a gambit to prevent him from having to send the Extension letter.
I guess it all hinges on whether the ERG are willing to throw the DUP under the bus too.
They seem very happy to throw anyone under a bus except themselves.
Roumors that Labour will whip for the amendment on 'Super Saturday' to include a second ref for the presumably now known deal Vs remain.
I can see it passing if thats the case, then it' extension and 2nd ref time.
Time for parliament to do the obvious … accept the new Withdrawal Agreement, subject to a referendum. I still think this will result in us leaving in May 2020… but with the consent of the voters. Obviously, I hope a referendum will go the other way, but I doubt it will. Still a better result than either leaving with no deal, or leaving without consent for the way we are doing so.
It so obviously isn’t. Is the infrequency of your involvement in any way related to the frequency of it being called out as bs?
It isn't the strip or dubious? It is and I think it is better to present data with a idea of scale which this doesn't
No it is a function of having a life so didn't look at the forum again for a few days by which time it is pretty pointless returning to an old post, anyway it was called out as bs by TJ which is probably one of the best sources of confirmation one can.
Seems like it will all boil down to how many labour mp's rebel and how many of the ex tories get back on board.
It's going to be close on Saturday.
Surely anyone in favour of a second ref will want the deal to be as crap as possible, no?
Surely anyone in favour of a second ref will want the deal to be as crap as possible, no?
Why?
Anyone in favour of remain might take that approach.
Anyone in favour of a second referendum should be hoping for the best possible leave choice to be put against remain.
Then you wonder why these people turn to Brexit/Leave ???
kelvin
I just don’t get your point at all.
Obviously not (and I mean that kindly).
Leave have managed to create a story that it's the EU setting UK immigration.
Obviously some EU nationals do choose to come and live and work in the UK on a temporary or permanent basis but that wasn't the way Leave presented it.
What many people see and experience was described by Taxi... so say someone from Abergavenny (David Davis's constituency) goes to Cardiff and see's ghetto's specifically created as ghetto's and the policy of creating them specifically placing and forcing immigrants into ghetto's (which is UK policy nothing to do with the EU).
Quite honestly I see nothing wrong with someone not wanting to live as the only non Somali/Bangladeshi or Spanish/French or EVEN ENGLISH person in an estate ghetto. It's not racist to want to live mainly with people of your own culture.
I'm I'll admit unusual in that when I have lived in various places round the world I've actively tried to avoid being in a English ghetto or White Ghetto... (for example you can go to Paris and live in a dominantly English/American area round the British school ... I know many that did .. I just chose not to) and I hardly need to mention the Costa del English ...
Because they don’t like living in a city? Or they think leaving the EU will make cities slower and quieter?
No .. what I'm saying is LEAVE have conflated immigration with the EU and further conflated ghetto's with immigration and then created a narrative that if we stay in the EU these brown people will come and invade where YOU live until YOU are the only Welsh racial representative left.
My whole point is that if these slightly xenophobic people wish to say "but I don't want to live in the middle of a Somali (or whatever) estate" they get branded racist by REMAIN... and get greeted with open arms by LEAVE.
The truth is that the ghetto-isation is UK policy, nothing to do with the EU but one refuses to even address this "because they are racist" whilst the other promises "control of our borders"
I don't think it is productive to call someone racist and refuse to discuss immigration because "discussing immigration is racist" when someone's fear is a ghetto will be built next to them.
My personal opinion is we have loads of room for immigrants but we use the space VERY badly and create ghetto's and ghetto's are almost universally bad. I just don't blame the EU.
My reference to the "city culture" is not wanting to live in a ghetto isn't really any different to not wanting to live in a city or not wanting to live in a rural setting. Equally I quite honestly know people who are terrified by the prospect of not living in a city centre.
Well well I just checked BBC news and apparently a deal is done.
Let's see if PM BoJo has sold Britain out but since the detail is not known I am just going to wait and see.
One wrong move from PM BoJo and Tories then they will be history ...
Surely anyone in favour of a second ref will want the deal to be as crap as possible, no?
I would like the best deal possible (this Withdrawal Arrangement isn’t that) to be put up against Remain in a referendum. But the Brexitiers with any influence (be that MPs or their backers) will only allow a Withdrawal Agreement to be proposed by a “real Leaver”, so that isn’t going to happen, is it?
If we’re leaving, we need to do so with a Withdrawal Agreement… and we, ie the public, can only accept or reject what the politicians cook up, unfortunately. But we need to be given that chance, otherwise people who want us to Leave will be moaning about the manner of our leaving being unacceptable, just as much as those of us that think we shouldn’t leave at all.
Surely anyone in favour of a second ref will want the deal to be as crap as possible, no?
From the polls I've seen, amongst leavers, no deal is way more popular than May's deal (which I presume this is broadly similar to) so leavers are happier with the crappiest of 'deals'. At least if the deal isn't terrible then the vote will be between a good option and a not too terrible option. About as good as we can hope for
So apparently goods that enter NI that have no risk of entry into the ROI/ Single Market, will fall within UK customs regulations.
With the exception of Rangers strips and Union Jack flags, pretty much everything that enters NI is at risk of entering the ROI and Single Market.
This is laughably bad.
It's May's dog shit with some glitter sprinkled on it.
The nicotine-stained man-frog is screaming ‘betrayal’ already.
@stevextc I agree about conflating xenophobia with racism, but I equally dislike either driving government policy.
As for culture, I still don’t get your point. If you don’t like to live surrounded by people of “another culture”, you need to define what that culture is to explain your concerns and motives for others to decide if that is born of racism, xenophobia, or something else. Just waving around the word “culture” is meaningless… and doesn’t magically transform concerns to “not racist” or “not xenophobic” without looking at what is meant be a culture different to your own.
I don’t like it when my neighbours are _________ ?
From the polls I’ve seen, amongst leavers, no deal is way more popular than May’s deal ...
Indeed, because reheating May's deal is just like signing another treaty (surrender) that make UK worst off without a veto voice yet needs to comply with EU rules (I think all but may be wrong).
If PM BoJo thinks he can misled Leavers he will have a shock to his system ...
I am going to wait for more details ...
The nicotine-stained man-frog is screaming ‘betrayal’ already.
It is a betrayal is it not if the deal makes UK worst off?
If it is a betrayal then Tories is history as simple as that.
p/s: Oh ya ... Either way I want to see at least one traditional or main UK political party (doesn't matter which one) decimated in the next GE with NO Chance of revival and consign to history forever. I want to this happening in my lifetime coz I want to see history in the making.
^^^^^ thats not the real chewkw. it's readable...
If you look back at the previous page you'll see I noticed the pound move up 57 minutes ago and made some prredictions based on that, but the deal news broke 31 minutes ago. I smell a rat, some people knew about the news and went long pound short Euro and had half an hours warning - enough people to move the market a little before the news broke. Some people are making a fortune out of Brexit with what would be illegal insider trading if it were share trading.
It is a betrayal is it not if the deal makes UK worst off?
every single version of Brexit makes the UK worse off!
Some people are making a fortune out of Brexit with what would be illegal insider trading if it was share trading.
Absolutely Possible.
Market gamblers are gluing to the news for sometimes now trying to make a quick £££.
If PM BoJo thinks he can misled Leavers he will have a shock to his system …
Seriously? They've been doing this for years. The very fact that "no deal" is popular with anyone who isn't Aaron Banks, Crispin Odey or Putin very ably demonstrates just how difficult it isn't to mislead leavers.
every single version of Brexit makes the UK worse off!
I wouldn't go that far as it is impossible to consider all possibilities.
But with re-heated May's deal UK will be in for a rough ride.
Seriously? They’ve been doing this for years. The very fact that “no deal” is popular with anyone who isn’t Aaron Banks, Crispin Odey or Putin very ably demonstrates just how difficult it is to mislead leavers.
Because most leavers are just not that vocal to express their views (can't be arsed) so they just let the politicians alone ... most of the time they leave them alone because of the No hope situation of being sold out.
Now it is different ... they ain't getting their bone back and the dog is not letting it go. 😁
Sorry for engaging with the Troll, but if any deal that makes the UK worse off is a betrayal, and not leaving the EU is a betrayal, what is not a “betrayal”? As all outcomes other than keeping EU membership makes the UK worse off than keeping EU membership. And, secondly, who or what is being betrayed in any of these outcomes?
But with re-heated May’s deal UK will be in for a rough ride.
What's Chewkw on today? Both readable and realistic about the consequences.
Bruno Waterfield of the Times was indicating deal done nearly two hours ago so way before your graph, Brussels is leaky
Ta, Mefty, not so cloak and dagger then, just some media are more on the ball than others. But why do you say Brussels is leaky? It might equally be Boris and Co. You'll note I didn't accuse either side in my post above.
... what is not a “betrayal” ...
Logically?
Get out with No Deal first.
Try it out then see what happens.
Then decide on next cause of action.
Try it out then see what happens
is no way to run a country.
It’s probably okay if your passport and personal situation lets you leave the country and work elsewhere at the drop of a hat if it all goes tits up.
But anyway, how is “no deal” not a betrayal if any deal is a betrayal, based on any deal making us worse off, and who or what would any deal be a betrayal of?
Get out with No Deal first.
Try it out then see what happens.
Then decide on next cause of action.
I can see no risks to this approach whatsoever, seems perfectly sensible.
Where's that sarcmark I was promised.
Try it out then see what happens.
Can be a good idea sometimes.
However not normally when working with a production system unless you have really run out of ideas and it is already so screwed it cant really get worse.
Because Bruno Waterfield is well plugged into the Brussels corridors as he is a Brussels correspondent, I have been following him for some time because he is consistently ahead of the game on EU movements. Tony Connelly is best plugged in for the Irish side and if I had to choose a UK correspondent it would be James Forsyth, but he isn't as consistent as the other two.
So its all about numbers
Grieve not looking keen on deal but several ERG holdouts have said they will, DUP saying no
It all comes down to the Labour rebels & I think theyll scrape it for Johnson