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The DUP are also on board because they can effectively veto the alignment of NI with the EU potentially, Beccle it even starts or after 4 years.
That's ignoring the fact that Stormont is still suspended. Lol
So yeah, as others have said. It is just a bs offer to run the clock down whilst trying to look "sincere".
Another week closer to their No Deal nirvana
There’s a very straightforward and certain way to stop it, but remain heroes like Swinson, Soubry and Grieve have other priorities.
The DUP are also on board because they can effectively veto the alignment of NI with the EU potentially, Beccle it even starts or after 4 years.
That’s ignoring the fact that Stormont is still suspended. Lol
So yeah, as others have said. It is just a bs offer to run the clock down whilst trying to look “sincere”.
The Guardian is saying that Bojos deal has some backing from useful idiots within the Labour Party, if he gets it through Parliament and then the EU reject it - what then?
The problem we have is Dominic Cummings.
Year Zero.
Dominic Cummings is as much of a Conservative as Pol Pot was. Left or Right means nothing to a true revolutionary. Break it, re-make it.
Breaking things is the easy part.
We broke it apart twice over the course of the previous century - putting it back together, shakily then stabily, defines us.
Making things takes vision, demands compromise, realises the ambitions of people with no axes to grind - builds a community of equals from the ashes of conflict.
We got there, we made it - it might not be perfect but then what is?
We are Europeans, are we not?
Everything that is happening now needs to be filtered through a Cummings prism.
Norms are inverted, up is down, right is wrong, in is out. All is a game. All is Game Theory.
A failed prorogation is just jolly japes - did that not work? - let's try another.
The man is a danger to us all.
but remain heroes like Swinson, Soubry and Grieve have other priorities.
They cant organise themselves, too many ideas to large an ego’s. I feel remain is a dead man walking now.
Boris / May’s deal will pass with maybe another tweak. Then we can all just finally get on with our lives.
JOhnsons proposals will not get thru the EU, not a chance. NOt even with tweaks so parliament can vote for it if it wants ( something I consider highly unlikely) but that is not what matters - the EU will not accept this even as a starting point.
Its also illegal under UK law!
JOhnsons proposals will not get thru the EU, not a chance.
They will, not in the current form but they will. Boris has the new leader of the EU on his side, Macron. He wants us out of the EU as much as Boris wants us out so he can continue the EU project un-hindered.
Pretty sure the DUP have only provided support for it as they no neither parliament or the EU can agree to it's terms, and even if somehow they did they can just veto it at Stormont (if that ever reconvenes).
I guess the EU have no choice but to say they'll consider it carefully, otherwise they just fall into Cumming's trap of being blamed for the inevitable no deal. I do wish someone high up in the EU had the balls to just say it it how it is, call the BS out, draw attention to the hedge fund backers and make it clear it's the Tories about the **** over the UK not the EU. Sadly it won't happen
call the BS out, draw attention to the hedge fund backers
While dribbling and wearing a tinfoil hat?
The whole thing is a ridiculous charade.
Asking the Irish (and therefore the EU) to sign up to an agreement overseen by a non-functioning Stormont assembly (so, by default; Westminster) that the DUP can veto at any time?
Yeah, right...?
When did you swap from out to in, Eddiebaby? And why? Just curious, being willing to change your mind is a quality.
I voted out as a protest vote against government arrogance attitude at the time. Never for one minute did I think it would happen. I was wrong.
I’m pretty certain I have mentioned this In this thread.
Since then I have certainly been called a racist a couple of times on here. The sheer nastiness on this thread at times equaled some of the language displayed by our ‘leaders” over the last few weeks.
Designed to fail, is it not.
The sheer nastiness on this thread...
I think the nastiness here is mostly born out of frustration. Personally brexit could be a life changing disaster for me and that makes it a very sensitive subject, so i try not to comment much.
Designed to fail, is it not.
Yep, as I said elsewhere, they're lubing us up to tell us it's all the EU's fault.
And people will lap that shit up as it is fed to them with a sympathetic media. Not wanting to be all JHJ, but that is the same media that either relies on the government for funding, or stands to make a tonne of money from the low tax, free trade utopia of the post-Brexit UK.
I think the nastiness here is mostly born out of frustration.
No it's not. It's the same people who are nasty on all threads. This thread doesn't get diluted by as many normal people as other threads do.
I watched this video,
Borris and Hedgefunds
I find it all very plausible...Hedge funds supported Boris bid of PM... they'll want their reward....
I agree with @eddiebaby … I can understand why people who are already being effected by this mess (family/health/work) can get wound up by people of the “no one will notice the difference” or “we just have to carry on with this because” persuasions… but let’s stop attacks on individuals… and also stop with the attacks on whole swathes off the population based on the words and actions of a few of them, ta.
Edit - Oh @5thElefant, you are cheeky. Your previous post was a perfect example of what we need less off. Dribbling indeed. Make the case for why Johnson’s funding isn’t relevant if you want…
There is still a bit of me that thinks Boris would rather leave with a deal this month than have to go to the polls either with No Deal mess unfolding, or fighting during an extension on a “my word is good, it’s those pesky whatever standing in my way”, and it’s only the DUP and the ERG preventing it. All it takes is for his proposals to be moved to NI staying in both Single Market and Customs Union, until the future trading arrangements/deals between UK&EU are agreed, and the EU and a majority of MPs will back it (and majority of people in NI, importantly). If he hadn’t kicked out those rebel No No Deal MPs… I could see it happening. Does he still have a way of getting that through? It’s the only way to avoid that extension (or No Deal) now. It’s also what May & the EU first proposed before the usual antiEU suspects torpedoed it. Those usual antiEU suspects without whom we’d now be out of the EU, in transition, and talking about the real deal, with NI in a stable position.
I voted out as a protest vote against government arrogance attitude at the time. Never for one minute did I think it would happen. I was wrong.
I’m pretty certain I have mentioned this In this thread.
Since then I have certainly been called a racist a couple of times on here. The sheer nastiness on this thread at times equaled some of the language displayed by our ‘leaders” over the last few weeks.
I wouldn't say you were a racist, but to be fair, your rationale for voting to leave the EU is pretty stupid in hindsight?
Not stupid at all. When governments hold referendums there is always a “down with these people in charge” element to the vote. With Cameron putting himself front and centre in the Remain campaign (and Corbyn doing the opposite) there was always going to even more of this “vote of no confidence in the PM” thinking in play than normal. Add to this the suggestion that voting to Leave could result in a narrow loss for Leave being used to change our current position/arrangement in/with EU… and voting to stop a large Remain win wasn’t stupid, but in hindsight has ended up being damaging. One of many reasons why another referendum is not “just for people who voted Remain” as politicians keep claiming (but obviously, logically, don’t believe).
voted out as a protest vote against government arrogance attitude at the time. Never for one minute did I think it would happen
Couple I know did the same thing, so you are certainly not alone.
Personally,we are praying that my wife & her ex's house sale goes through, already gone down in price by £40k since brexit was voted for but if it sells we'll be mortgage free and resilient to any further economic shock.
There is still a bit of me that thinks Boris would rather leave with a deal this month than have to go to the polls either with No Deal mess unfolding, or fighting during an extension on a “my word is good, it’s those pesky whatever standing in my way”, and it’s only the DUP and the ERG preventing it.
Whatever deal Boris can get will be a lot worse for the vast majority than we have today.
His only hope/escape really is to blame someone else.
I wouldn’t say you were a racist, but to be fair, your rationale for voting to leave the EU is pretty stupid in hindsight?
Yep. But also in hindsight I should have stayed with my wife, stayed in my old job and maybe even stayed as a mining engineer. Buying a Zune was also a crap decision. And why did I ever sell my On One Fatty or ... insert loads of guitars, amps, keyboards here....
IN my 'defence' I really thought the vote would have been nearer 60:40 the other way. I was obviously misled by government propoganda that leaving was bad thing ... that'll never happen again to anyone will it?
Where has a house dropped £40k since Brexit?
£ has dropped but have house prices dropped that much?
House prices dropping in London and the South East. It would be all over the front pages of the usual papers if it wasn’t related to Brexit.
They have if you actually want to sell it, in this stagnant market...
There is still a bit of me that thinks Boris would rather leave with a deal this month
I think so aswell, it would serve his ego well to succeed were others have failed. Getting concessions of the EU and getting it through parliment were May failed would please him greatly.
I voted out as a protest vote against government arrogance attitude at the time. Never for one minute did I think it would happen. I was wrong.
**** me... You unthinking member of society.
Well thanks in part to you and others my life has been put on hold and my existence is on the line.
Yes, I'm angry
I think so aswell, it would serve his ego well to succeed were others have failed. Getting concessions of the EU and getting it through parliment were May failed would please him greatly.
He's no so stupid though as to want to own that deal.
Remember May's deal....who 'owns' that deal?
Every economic failure, loss of jobs, bare supermarket aisles, the first border shooting ... will be squarely Boris's deal
His only way out is to blame it on the "will of the people"
Where has a house dropped £40k since Brexit?
High Wycombe - just look on rightmove and see how many are listed as "price reduced on" £40k represents a 12.5% drop.
They have if you actually want to sell it, in this stagnant market…
Which is us, been paying two mortgages for last 3.5yrs (we were housing 7 family members) but circumstances have changed and want to offload heavily mortgaged house currently still in wife's & ex's name.
I voted out as a protest vote against government arrogance attitude at the time. Never for one minute did I think it would happen. I was wrong.
**** me… You unthinking member of society.
Well thanks in part to you and others my life has been put on hold and my existence is on the line.
Yes, I’m angry
Whilst the anger is totally understandable, remainers (and people opposed to the current Tory government) need to latch on to people such as Eddiebaby. He's admitted it was a mistake on a public forum which majority disagrees with his views.
Find out the reasons for the change of mind and then put those reasons to other people who are on the fence/Brexiters.
Yes, I’m angry
I seem to remember a thread of yours from a while back where you managed to get arrested for smoking dope and driving, putting your own livelihood at risk. I imagine, with hindsight, you regret that as well. We all make mistakes in life, what makes us "unthinking" is not learning from it.
The housing market is pretty stagnant in my area - lots of houses for sale, but not moving and expect those that are selling is simply down to taking a price cut. Not helped by lots of new house building meaning over-supply suppressing prices - 5 bed detached exec homes mainly - clearly intended for migrant workers LOL
Thanks, Eddiebaby, if you've posted that before I'd missed or forgotten. You're not alone in changing your mind as the poll trends show:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Brexit/Post-referendum_opinion_polling:_Remain-Leave
He’s admitted it was a mistake on a public forum which majority disagrees with his views.
I'd be surprised if many on here disagree with my views. I'm pro-Europe, like foreign folk, have worked and lived in many parts of the world and see no reason to stop others having the same rights.
I was a thinking member of society - I was using my vote tactically. What I was, was in fact wrong in thinking what way the vote would go.
Nobody has to explain themselves to you EK.
True, but it can't hurt to ask. That's kind of how discussion works.
He wants us out of the EU as much as Boris wants us out so he can continue the EU project un-hindered.
Sounds like a compelling reason to stay in then, does it not? So that we can have some influence on that?
I voted out as a protest vote against government arrogance attitude at the time. Never for one minute did I think it would happen. I was wrong.
It takes a big man to admit they made a mistake and I think you should be applauded for that at least. It's not the first time I've heard that people made a protest vote in order to give Cameron a bloody nose.
At this point, I don't really care who voted for what in an advisory referendum over three years ago. I'm sick to ****ing death of hearing about it. It's done and dusted, as the leavers like to remind us: we lost, get over it. We can't change the past and obsessing about it gains us nothing.
I don’t think we should be surprised Kelvin, that people are angry with those who voted for leave to stick it to the man/the lolz.
The information was out there that this would deeply affect peoples lives and those that still voted out for the above reasons did so out of a profound lack of empathy for those who would. There is no way you could ignore the warnings from remain unless you were already a true believer or wilfully ignorant.
If you voted out and realise this now, don’t paint yourself as a victim, don’t blame the government for it - that’s more of what led you to vote out in the first place. Just accept people will be pissed at you and your reasons for voting leave and move on.
The information was out there that this would deeply affect peoples lives and those that still voted out for the above reasons did so out of a profound lack of empathy for those who would. There is no way you could ignore the warnings from remain unless you were already a true believer or wilfully ignorant.
AGAIN: I never wanted to leave. I never thought there was the faintest chance of it happening. I have empathy, I just didn't think it would be close, let alone close the wrong way.
Anyway, thats the last time I'll repeat this.
**** me… You unthinking member of society.
I don't think you should be so hard on him alpin, after all maybe be he's a reformed Brexiteer in the same way as you are a reformed drugged driver. 🙂
I think eddiebaby being pretty brave & honest, well done sir!
AGAIN: I never wanted to leave. I never thought there was the faintest chance of it happening. I have empathy, I just didn’t think it would be close, let alone close the wrong way.
Anyway, thats the last time I’ll repeat this
The point that people will feel, rightly so, is that why risk those adverse outcomes for people for a protest vote - about something you didn’t even believe in anyway. There are plenty of other outlets - protest, rioting, joining a grass roots political party etc. There was still a probability that we would leave - voting out of protest was not an acceptable gamble in terms of risk.
Owning up and then blaming politicians or calling those deeply angry about the effects to their livelihoods “nasty” - is not truly owning up and is just as bad as people getting angry with leavers. Probably worse because at least remainers have genuine reasons for being angry with leavers.
As I said, accept that people have the right to be angry about people who made decisions like yours. They will then probably get over it.
It only really matters if a million people voted as a protest and didn't really want to leave at all. If they were given a choice now it would no doubt be remain after seeing how their protest vote didn't quite work out.
Also, if protest is the intention it may be better to actually go out and protest or at least vote for a party other then the one in power that you are protesting about....
How does that work in a referendum @Kerley?
Anyway, lots of people voted tactically in the way @eddiebaby did, accept they aren’t prepared to own that error and try and move on. Good on him. We all need to move on from talking about how and why people voted how they did in 2016, and talk about what should be done now… and when it comes to it, how we should vote when given a chance.