I'm sure you're not doing that aracer. 😉

@br well if Microsoft choose to take £/€ risk by putting the servers in Ireland that's their look out. Ultimately it will depend on what Google, Dropbox and Apple do. If one has UK servers then its an issue. I don't know

don't know.... but striding on as usual.

Cloud storage is a bit part for these guys, are apple actually a major player in this stuff. For MS it's them and Amazon. The storage is a byproduct.
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/regions/
MS do actually host witin the UK but their costs can still be rising as things like energy gets added and the falling value of the pound makes the software more expensive. Also if they UK stayed lower in real terms than the rest of the world their pricing model would be broken.

But lets get back to the point, tanking the pound then complaining when things go up is a bit much even for a grade a troll.

The question regarding Scotland is very simple.

[b]If there is no EU will Scotland still demand an independence? [/b]

Bear in mind that EU is at the beginning of their end so what does the crystal ball says about Scotland if there is no EU?

@BR they microsoft just did it, what we all going to do? Start knitting our own servers and software - ethics is imaterial - capitalism smells an opportunity - the Brexit didn't really cause argument is bollocks, Brexit vote provides the opportunity and that sunshine is more than enough for Microsoft.

but (ex-)Kingdom, with its own capital, own flag, own anthem, own laws, own parliament, own currency (sort of), own national sports teams, and a separate social, political, Royal, military and genealogical history.

A bit like the Isle of Man?

BnD - Isle of Man - the island never became part of the Kingdom of Great Britain or its successor the United Kingdom, retaining its status as an internally self-governing Crown dependency.

Don't actually know if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you

Couple of interesting points on Newsnight

Junker and Tusk championed their deal to allocate 160,000 migrants across the EU via so called binding quotas. So far just 4,000 have been so moved. Perfect example of dysfunctional EU unable to manage anything remotely challenging

Interview guest/commentator giving a much more upbeat assesment of May's negotiating strategy and with France and Germany having elections in 2017 saying we held a very strong hand

igm - Member

polis

Bell end alert!

POLICE.
P-O-L-I-C-E.
Not difficult is it?

Interview guest/commentator giving a much more upbeat assesment of May's negotiating strategy and with France and Germany having elections in 2017 saying we held a very strong hand

chewkw - Member

Greek can do as they like. We have no business in sticking our nose in their affairs.

Other than the fact we're in a fiscal and political union with them, you're spot on.

When did we enter a fiscal union with Greece?

When did we enter a fiscal union with Greece?

As far as I'm aware we never did, though some folks would love to have you believe otherwise...

Interview guest/commentator giving a much more upbeat assesment of May's negotiating strategy and with France and Germany having elections in 2017 saying we held a very strong hand

meanwhile as we get excited about taking back all this fakecontrol everything gets more expensive,not just marmite, hp, dell, apple^10%, microsoft ^22%

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/24/technology/microsoft-prices-brexit-uk/index.html

This thread is full of 'confirmation bias' posts on both sides..in fact I reckon the Brexit topic does that throughout society.

Yes, I thought that too 😉

Sbob - I could take offence, but life's too short

Police = police anywhere
Polis = Glasgow police (Strathclyde police at one time, but not Police Scotland)

Allow an ex-pat his nostalgia

When did we enter a fiscal union with Greece?
As far as I'm aware we never did, though some folks would love to have you believe otherwise...

Lets try political union then? When did that happen?

Lets try political union then? When did that happen?

Dunno - maybe Varoufakis on QT counts? He certainly made more sense than the lame-brained local politicians, so maybe it's a Good Thing?

Perfect example of dysfunctional EU unable to manage anything remotely challenging

As opposed to what? Our own highly efficient effective government?

What you've pointed out is government in general, not the EU specifically.

Brexit vote provides the opportunity and that sunshine is more than enough for Microsoft.

I can't see how this is controversial. If the service had been priced in $ prices would have automatically gone up 18% all on their own.

@oldman - £/$ moves 18% Microsoft raise prices 22% - opportunistic try on. Why aren't their servers in UK (I bet they are) and what costs have changed so much ? Are the servers demanding a pay rise ?

Microsoft along with many other US Tech companies are complete snakes - they book software and service sales through Ireland in order to avoid tax. A lot of their UK based consultants are also "employed" by Microsoft in Switzerland again to reduce and avoid tax. At the last estimate they avoid around £120m a year in tax on UK sales which would be enough to train another couple of thousand doctors a year.

If Philip Hammond has any scruples he'll announce a revenue tax on UK Software / Cloud Service sales - this would have the double benefit of putting downward price pressure on Microsoft and generating more tax.

As opposed to what? Our own highly efficient effective government?

A classroom full of child migrants and you'd think we were trying to cope with having our borders 'swamped'?

But it has once again shown the post-brexit UK in such a marvellous light again. Having a handful of traumatised child refugees be received as if they were an occupying force. Its all jolly good fun our new nasty, racist nation, isn't it?

http://www.out-law.com/en/topics/tax/corporate-tax-/diverted-profits-tax-regime/

I thought Osborne already had a tax on that, or is it just not enforced?

http://www.out-law.com/en/topics/tax/corporate-tax-/diverted-profits-tax-regime/

And if you want scruples I'd look elsewhere our post Brexit government seem to be exclusively made up of back stabbing,sociopaths who have happily use racism, and deceit on a massive scale for their own ego driven political ends

Having a handful of traumatised child refugees be received as if they were an occupying force.

A time when it is apparently acceptable to have this (admittedly quite funny) meme poster displayed in the House of Commons kitchen:

[img] [/img]
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/poster-mocking-syrian-refugees-house-12070611

If Philip Hammond has any scruples he'll announce a revenue tax on UK Software

I thought Osborne already had a tax on that, or is it just not enforced?

http://www.out-law.com/en/topics/tax/corporate-tax-/diverted-profits-tax-regime/

And scruples, in this government? Our post Brexit politics is all about stoking the fear and hate (see HOC poster above) and telling lies the size of a bus to achieve your own ego driven political ends

Its even put the price of railways up!!

Toy trains.. but still

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37755137

jambalaya - Member

Graham that point was argued about ad infinitum on the original Scots Indy Ref thread

Posted 10 hours ago #

No, you and Ninfan kept posted it. Along with some of your other nuggtes such as annexing Faslane.

If Philip Hammond has any scruples he'll announce a revenue tax on UK Software / Cloud Service sales - this would have the double benefit of putting downward price pressure on Microsoft and generating more tax.

Or encouraging UK companies to simply shop overseas. Assuming we're still allowed to that is.

Ducknan - we have been round this so many times. Scotland is a region of the UK. You had a 2 year Referendum Campaign to vote on thrning it into a Coubtry. More to the point Scotland has no abimity to block Brexit. Sturgeon is well aware of this but for her political aims she and the SNP will be as disruptive as they can be and seek to undermine the UK's negotiation. If I where May I would give Sturgeon ZERO confidential information as she cannot be trusted. From what I read of the meeting that's what happened, Sturgeon can't be trusted tell her nothing other than what is disclosed to Parliament

Or encouraging UK companies to simply shop overseas. Assuming we're still allowed to that is.

Microsft is overseas, US company, Irish Cloud Service provider. From what I have read above Microsoft is taking the p.ss

Brexit provides us with an opportunity to insist such services are provided inside the UK or as a minimum are subject for example to non-refundable VAT. Hence providing an incentive to favour UK based services

Brexit provides us with an opportunity to insist such services are provided inside the UK.

You are truly deluded or heavily medicated

Was it a coincidence that Fraser was a Scot?

[img] [/img]

Jammers darling.... you asked earlier in the thread how we could be this nasty, petty, small-minded insular little island (that I maintain we've now become) if we have the largest foreign aid budget of EU countries*. My reply to you was "...and how long do you think that's going to last with this shower of little englander ****s at the helm?"

Well.... we now know. Guess what the government are doing today while the media are all concentrated on the Heathrow decision?

Go on.... go out on a limb and take a wild stab in the dark about what they're proposing to do today? Its just been on Five Live. Go on.... think of the most entirely predictable thing that the present Nasty Party, and their tribe of gleeful triumphalist bigots have their eyes on....?

Would anyone else care to chance their arm on a prediction?

* But then they take refugees in. We don't.

Brexit provides us with an opportunity to insist such services are provided inside the UK.

[quote=kimbers ]

If Philip Hammond has any scruples he'll announce a revenue tax on UK Software

And scruples, in this government? Our post Brexit politics is all about stoking the fear and hate (see HOC poster above) and telling lies the size of a bus to achieve your own ego driven political ends

To be fair Hammond has played a pretty straight bat - he's the only one of the top team I might trust (to have some scruples).

Brexit provides us with an opportunity to insist such services are provided inside the UK

And you think we could just produce all these services overnight?

Bear in mind a lot of *customers* for cloud services are global companies anyway, so could easily just not bother with the UK at all if the conditions aren't favourable.

IBM for example have a cloud data center in London and one in Amsterdam. If banks move to Frankfurt (either physically or operationally), how many of them will use the London data center? So why would IBM invest in it then?

I subscribe to a couple of online services from outside the UK. Are these to be made illegal? How exactly are you going to force or even persuade everyone to use domestic services instead?

Given that most government data and statistics view Scotland as a country, please Jambas can you give me the exec summary of why you feel it isn't and the criteria used? Thanks

For reference

The top-level division of administrative geography in the UK is the 4 [b]countries[/b] – England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Source: UK Gov/ONS

To be fair Hammond has played a pretty straight bat - he's the only one of the top team I might trust (to have some scruples).

He wears the look of a man constantly despairing of the idiocy he's surrounded by. He's not going to last five minutes when this all starts to go properly tits up. Which its guaranteed too pretty imminently. Leaving the lunatics in charge of the asylum

I used to think Scotland wasn't a country but now I've learned that the term 'country' has no specific definition, so Scotland can easily be one. And Wales too, even though that's much shakier ground historically.

If I where May I would give Sturgeon ZERO confidential information

What 'confidential' information is May sitting on here?

everyone knows how many EU citizens are in the UK & vice versa , and how much we trade with one another
what else is there?
a few things were booted around at the Tory conference...

such as divisive ideas like using EU citizens here as bargaining chips(Fox), shaming employers who employ foreigners (Rudd) confused messages about the single market (Davies , Hammond & Johnson)

Do you really think May is sitting on some dynamite strategy to get us wht we want?
shes got **** all choice really, she either tanks the economy or pisses off the racists

[quote=molgrips ]And Wales too, even though that's much shakier ground historically.

I'm tempted to suggest that if Wales is a country, then it's not one you live in 😈

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Wales

I am afraid that

the SNP will be as disruptive as they can be and seek to undermine the UK's negotiation

Since you like to mention the will of the people,the SNP's current postion is actually a reflection on how Scots voted in the EU referendum. Hopefully May will publicly slap Scotland down, that will give the focal point of the indy movement some ammo. As for negotiation...You don't have anything to undermine, The "strategy" seems to consists of the sort of pish that you spout on here and then deny/ignore when anybody points out the inaccuracies you can't actually refute wee Nippy's (feel free to adopt that one THM) statement yesterday. Still waiting for your assurance on academic funding, or the £350m a week for the NHS...Its guilt isn't it?

Nah, its has slightly sexist undertones*. Prefer The Narcissist - much more accurate, duckie.

May doesnt need to slap (tut, tut) The Narcissist anyway. The current position is so laughably unsustainable that she should just ignore her and starve her of the oxygen of media airtime.

*But has a childish (admittedly) chuckle at the aforementioned facebook page. Thanks for that.

Jammers darling.... you asked earlier in the thread how we could be this nasty, petty, small-minded insular little island (that I maintain we've now become) if we have the largest foreign aid budget of EU countries*. My reply to you was "...and how long do you think that's going to last with this shower of little englander ****s at the helm?"

Are they the same shower who increased the aid budget? Or was that a different shower?

Are they the same shower who increased the aid budget? Or was that a different shower?

oh, theyve got plans for it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/11/spend-some-of-the-millions-from-the-aid-budget-on-a-new-royal-ya/

[quote=binners ]Jammers darling.... you asked earlier in the thread how we could be this nasty, petty, small-minded insular little island (that I maintain we've now become) if we have the largest foreign aid budget of EU countries*. My reply to you was "...and how long do you think that's going to last with this shower of little englander ****s at the helm?"
Well.... we now know. Guess what the government are doing today while the media are all concentrated on the Heathrow decision?
Go on.... go out on a limb and take a wild stab in the dark about what they're proposing to do today? Its just been on Five Live. Go on.... think of the most entirely predictable thing that the present Nasty Party, and their tribe of gleeful triumphalist bigots have their eyes on....?
Would anyone else care to chance their arm on a prediction?
* But then they take refugees in. We don't.

Ah. Priti Patel. She's a delight. Her hero is Thatcher. The same Priti Patel who was paid £165 an hour by British American Tobacco to limit the PR damage caused by them paying Burmese factory workers £15 A MONTH.

Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England are not "[i]fully independent separate sovereign[/i] countries", because our [i]kingdoms[/i] are [i]united[/i].

But I think most of us who live here (including official government agencies) are quite comfortable with the idea that they are still "countries".

As [url= https://www.britannica.com/place/Scotland ]Encyclopædia Britannica notes[/url]:

Scotland's relations with England, with which it was merged in 1707 to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain, have long been difficult. Although profoundly influenced by the English, Scotland has long refused to consider itself as anything other than a separate country

(it goes on to use the word "country" repeatedly throughout the article).

I realise of course that you cannot acknowledge this as you'd then have to recognise that the Act of Union 1707 establishes a Free Trade Area and Freedom of Movement between the countries involved - and we all know what a terrible idea that is.

Are they the same shower who increased the aid budget? Or was that a different shower?

It was Dave who did that. Dave and his despised metropolitan, Notting hill set. You not up to speed with the new "Year Zero' agenda yet? Thats all ancient history now. That was pre-referendum politics.

We've Taken Back Control. Did you not hear?

The aid budget will be shortly disappearing into the same thin air as the promised £350 million a week for the NHS. Be grateful for what you've had already, godless brown people

[quote=binners ]It was Dave who did that. Dave and his despised metropolitan, Notting hill set.

Anybody feeling nostalgic for CMD yet?

who?

*But has a childish (admittedly) chuckle at the aforementioned facebook page. Thanks for that.

I didn't realise there was a facebook page. The posters on that scare me every bit as much as the our Nic-who-art-in-heaven crowd.

Wee nippy facebook v WoS. A no-score draw (no comments about goalkeepers necessary)

[i had to look up wee nippy myself 😉 ]

Jamba - did you actually mean this? "From what I have read above Microsoft is taking the p.ss
Brexit provides us with an opportunity to insist such services are provided inside the UK or as a minimum are subject for example to non-refundable VAT. Hence providing an incentive to favour UK based services" ? Microsoft are free to take the p*ss as our world more or less runs on their stuff so Any excuse they will lift prices (it's a monopoly basically) and I would really like to see you dictate terms to MS - they could double their prices tomorrow and we would still pay.

Any excuse they will lift prices (it's a monopoly basically)

Not in that area it's not. There's Amazon, Google (I think), IBM for starters.

Oracle are even jumping back in...

Oracle are even jumping back in...

Ahh, Oracle software... one hundred thousand angry customers can't be wrong.

I know surprised me too

[url= https://www.ft.com/content/835909ee-9aad-11e6-8f9b-70e3cabccfae ]https://www.ft.com/content/835909ee-9aad-11e6-8f9b-70e3cabccfae[/url]

time for some more good news i think.

Sorry, but why is that good news?

Mmmm Oracle 10 operating system - now there is true evil, next it will be SAP Spreadsheets. Oh they will simply hike prices in line with MS easy margin no casualties.

I don't really understand these price hikes and layoffs; Jambo says he's studied this and everything is going to peachy... are all these CEO's stupid or something 🙂

THM, er we are taking back control???

And I hate astras! I really hate astras.

More seriously I worked up the road at shotton for 6 months a few years ago, the area really got screwed over when the steel works went, still recovering. Now rip GM out of Ellesmere Port and see how it will destroy the region some more.

If the model replacement relies on export, what would you do if you have no idea about the tariffs you face?

If there is no more EU will Scotland still want independence?

I realise of course that you cannot acknowledge this as you'd then have to recognise that the Act of Union 1707 establishes a Free Trade Area and Freedom of Movement between the countries involved - and we all know what a terrible idea that is.

It was coupled with full currency and political union

And obviously everyone thought it was a great idea and there was no unrest etc

If there is no more EU will Scotland still want independence?

Well, if that happens, and we all feel the economic shock of it, and it is the English that are seen as those that brought the whole house of cards down around us all, I expect those North of the border to be _______ angry enough to want to get away from us, yes.

Well, if that happens, and we all feel the economic shock of it, and it is the English that are seen as those that brought the whole house of cards down around us all, I expect those North of the border to be _______ angry enough to want to get away from us, yes.

Brexit will get blamed as it suits the SNP, the reality is that the seeds of any EU failure were sowed in the bailout of Greece

kelvin - Member

If there is no more EU will Scotland still want independence

Well, if that happens, and we all feel the economic shock of it, and it is the English that are seen as those that brought the whole house of cards down around us all, I expect those North of the border to be _______ angry enough to want to get away from us, yes.

Like it or not the EU system will collapse in this generation if not in the next generation. It is Not a matter of if but when.

big_n_daft - Member
Brexit will get blamed as it suits the SNP, the reality is that the seeds of any EU failure were sowed in the bailout of Greece

It would be nice to ask Sturgeon for a contingency plan in the event that they are out of UK and there is no EU.

Edit: there really is no point in engaging with some people.

Yes, Chew and Jam are not actually engaging the debate, they are just trying to assert their point of view through force, not through constructive argument.

And that's not intended as a personal attack - I wish they were engaging, I'd love a proper debate and I hold nothing against either of them.

If I was sturgeon, I'd be looking to leave the UK, keep the pound, and stay in the EU on the same terms the UK currently have. I don't think that's an outrageous angle..then if the merde hits the fan in england or the eu, they can either adopt the euro currency or if the EU goes south, keep the pound.

Uk government has demonstrated quite comprehensively that they are a bunch of self serving double talking fantacists with no real plan.

At least the scotts have options..Meanwhile in little england,we are far too busy biting are noses off to spite our faces.

kelvin - Member
Edit: there really is no point in engaging with some people.

But do they have other plan(s) if thing (EU) goes pear shape? i.e. contingency. You have to bear in mind they do not have their own currency and that their economy is rather small. No UK and no EU means they are in no people land.

You might say nothing will change with EU but things are already changing as we are Brexiting, so in a way EU is at the beginning of the end.

1 that's not an option
2 that wouldn't be in the best interests of the Scottish people

Otherwise, carry on....

Sturgeon is bluffing along those lines too...

More discussion of how interconnectedness of our trade networks, in this case NI & Ireland
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/brexit-could-ruin-irelands-food-industry-bruton-and-ahern-tell-lords

Ahern pointed out that the Tesco supermarket chain took 60% of its cheese and 84% of its chicken from Ireland. The two-way trade of milk is worth £1.5bn per year.

He said: “The inter-relationships are enormous. Tariffs could cripple a huge amount of the food industry; the bureaucracy would be enormous – the amount of people involved, the add-on costs of running that kind of system. My concern is people would start going elsewhere for markets and it would really work totally against the entire industry and that would be a huge loss.

teamhurtmore - Member
1 that's not an option
2 that wouldn't be in the best interests of the Scottish people

Otherwise, carry on....

Sturgeon is bluffing along those lines too...

If I was sturgeon, I'd be looking to leave the UK and stay in the EU on the same terms the UK currently have.

Are they the terms negotiated by the

Uk government

are a bunch of self serving double talking fantacists with no real plan.

Some good news

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/may-s-student-deportation-programme-in-tatters-as-legal-appe

and more

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/25/exclusive-leaked-recording-shows-what-theresa-may-really-thinks-about-brexit?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1477429509 ]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/25/exclusive-leaked-recording-shows-what-theresa-may-really-thinks-about-brexit?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1477429509[/url]

quite how this squares with the 3 brexiters,

mrmo - Member
and more

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/25/exclusive-leaked-recording-shows-what-theresa-may-really-thinks-about-brexit?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1477429509

quite how this squares with the 3 brexiters,

The Guardian newspaper is really going into full swing dramatic mode isn't it.

At least one of them was saying the same thing at that time 😉

The Guardian newspaper is really going into full swing dramatic mode isn't it.

You find this dramatic? There are 373 pages of people saying basically the same thing. Has this come as a surprise to you?