[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

P-Jay - Member

the centre right and far right parties are going to get battered next time the public gets to vote...

seeing as how we'll be spending the next 5/10/20 years sorting this mess out, we'll have no time to fix [i]actual[/i] problems.

So the right/far-right will still be able to blame the EU/the BBC/New Labour/Old Labour/immigrants/etc./etc.

and it's easy to blame someone instead of proposing solutions, and it works.

whats EU you lot talking about? the domino starts falling.. the netherlands..Austria..Italia.. France...will have their own referendums soon enough. (yes you know it here first) .. look at the clean slate instead of crying over the dust being wiped off it. .my job might be affected soon as our product relies more on export but i will cross the bridge when I get there...a a Brit always stand tall in the face of adversity 😉

a Brit always stand tall in the face of adversity

You may wanted to stand a little less tall and horde cardboard, as its cold at night under bridges.

I think that other countries will want a referendum but the question asked will be very different . More about changes to the EU rather than out completely .

They have to make an example of us to stop the union falling apart.

The initial rhetoric may be strong but once big business gets a say then things will be toned down. Remember the UK is the 4th biggest market for BMW, Porsche and Audi they will want to protect that. Also companies like Airbus have already said they want the divorce to be amicable.

Is this a good time to mention a Free Yorkshire?

Bit late for that. A week ago and a free Yorkshire could have saved the rest of us a lot of grief.

companies like Airbus have already said they want the divorce to be amicable.

Airbus have also said they are carefully considering their future in the UK

So the market

It's surprisingly and very calmly rallied throughout the day.... well played Mark Carney

And dare I say it ... but Boris' change of tone and performance was very statesman like earlier in the day .... funny how he's not the bubbling fool anymore ??

Crazy that we are trading higher than only last thursday .... Sell the rumour buy the fact

. but Boris' change of tone and performance

i think borris getting heckled put the wind up him

So the market

It's surprisingly and very calmly rallied throughout the day.... well played Mark Carney

The pound is down 9.26% and FTSE 250 down 7.2%

And you count that as a rally!

The pound is down 9.26% and FTSE 250 down 7.2%

And you count that as a rally!

FTSE is down 2.33% and £ down 8% against the $ and 6% against € although that may change again, it's volatile - and yes that's a rally / rebound from early trading.

The 'good' thing about a self-inflicted screw up is that plans were already in place months ago.

So I agree with Ro5ey, Mark Carney (and the hundreds who work for him) are doing very well given the shock this morning.

It's not 'credit crunch' bad when it very much could be, and theres no doubt a lot of 'shorting' going on - the market knows that nothing happens for 2 years from the date the leave process starts so it's not as panicy as it could have been - but next week might be a total bloodbath.

Well well pandora's box is open.

Good old Dave carrying out the tory old guards bidding, a pawn in the bigger game! Having said that he will still be a millionaire, book to follow, after dinner speaking and working as a consultant for an industry lobby group is not so bad eh.

If played right it could work out well for smaller domestic businesses, time will tell.

Britain could become the European super tax haven to beat all tax havens 😆

Excuse my ignorance but where did the BofE find £250 billion?

Must have a bloody big sofa.

BOE can find as much money as it wants - it prints the stuff.

er, small problem with printing money, ask most of the middle african states:

I'd like a loaf of bread please. Certainly sir, that will be 3 million quid:

[img] [/img]

😆

never said it was a good idea!

Lower £ must phone round the export customers and tell to buy now.

Your going to have to pay us to stay in the UK now. Free Yorkshire!
If we could just forge an alliance with Lancashire, a toll both on the M1 and M6 should bring in plenty of brass from them that running off to the Independent Scotland.

Free Yorkshire! An it better be free!

Have we discussed Spain sabre-rattling about post-Brexit Gibraltar yet?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-gibraltar-idUKKCN0ZA169

[quote=chestrockwell ]Interesting to see that the Eurogeezers are not begging us to stay and are infact telling us to get on with it!

Juncker and his mates? Well they're bound to say that, because for them the European project is far more important than the countries or indeed the ordinary people. At some point Germany and German businesses will point out to them who is bankrolling the whole thing and to stop trying to cut their nose off. At least that's the level of realism I hope is going to happen, and nothing coming from Merkel or German business leaders seems to contradict the idea that they have no desire to give us the sort of kicking the EU luvvies would like to.

Juncker may not have worked it out yet, but him and that sort of statement is actually part of the problem and the reason there is a growing call from other countries to change things, rather than part of the solution.

GrahamS
Have we discussed Spain sabre-rattling about post-Brexit Gibraltar yet?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-gibraltar-idUKKCN0ZA169

It's ok we'll just send out our massive carrier fleet with all those shiny new attack aircraft on it as a deterrent. Oh, wait a minute.......

Britain could become the European super tax haven to beat all tax havens

I have a feeling we're going to see who really serves the elite (hint: it's the new guys in charge of the Conservative party).

Juncker and his mates? Well they're bound to say that, because for them the European project is far more important than the countries or indeed the ordinary people. At some point Germany and German businesses will point out to them who is bankrolling the whole thing and to stop trying to cut their nose off. At least that's the level of realism I hope is going to happen, and nothing coming from Merkel or German business leaders seems to contradict the idea that they have no desire to give us the sort of kicking the EU luvvies would like to.

Juncker may not have worked it out yet, but him and that sort of statement is actually part of the problem and the reason there is a growing call from other countries to change things, rather than part of the solution.

I'm agreeing with Aracer. It really is a day for change.

I think that other countries will want a referendum but the question asked will be very different . More about changes to the EU rather than out completely .

What can they change? As a country they have no power to change anything as the Council of Ministers makes the changes then has them approved, amended or rejected by the Euro MP's.
They can make noise but unless it is in the interest of the other members or more precise in line with the EU ideology then little will happen.

Lets cut to the big question

Does this make London less attractive to Oil Sheiks and Russian Oligarchs?

There are comments on here saying that 'Leavers' should not be dismissed as racist bigots, but here's the thing.

In my experience today, the 'Leavers' (apart from one) fall into one of three categories:

Thick
Racist
Thick and Racist

The odd one out is my dad. I know he is very intelligent and vehemently anti-racist. He was just pissed off with the notion of unelected (by us) bureaucrats making decisions on behalf of this country. I was a bit pissed off by that too, but I guess the main difference between us is that I'll have to live longer with the consequences.

A sad day for Britain. If I see anyone flying a Union Jack in 'triumph' I am going to suggest to them that they might want to consider flying it at half mast.

Dannyh - that must make Mr Dyson a racist!

Dannyh - that must make Mr Dyson a racist

No - because:

In my experience today,

In my experience today, the 'Remainers' fall into one of three categories:

Superior
Arrogant
Condescending

FTFY

Dannyh - that must make Mr Dyson a racist!

I was talking about people I know! There are other very small classes involved too. Manipulators with a personal agenda and gain to make are one, others include those that are quite well enough off already to afford to vote leave.

Oh, and I don't have a problem with thick people, mostly. It's just that I wouldn't seek their advice on what to have for tea let alone decide whether to plunge a country into renewed recession.

Pre-vote IQ tests would sort a lot of problems.

Believe me, a lot of folk around the country have trouble with basic adding and stringing a coherent sentence together. It doesn't make them bad people, but it does make them easy to sway and perceive imagined injustices.

Harsh but true.

Superior

In an intellectual sense I think you are right there.

With such intelligence that you hold why could you not talk to them and educate with your knowledge to change their opinion

I'm agreeing with Aracer. It really is a day for change.

Im not quite sure whether to feel complimented or insulted!

dannyh - so you know why everybody else voted Leave and that nobody else thinks like your dad? Out of interest how many Leave voters do you know the reason for their choice? As I wrote above, it's an incredibly unhelpful way to interact with people you hope might change their minds

Prior to the vote I mean. Unless of course those you have been with today you have known from today only

With such intelligence that you hold why could you not talk to them and educate with your knowledge to change their opinion

Because they just wouldn't listen and dismiss me (like all the economic experts) as condescending and superior.

Oh, and please finish a question with a question mark.

genesiscore502011 - Member

With such intelligence that you hold why could you not talk to them and educate with your knowledge to change their opinion?

Because immigrants.

OK, then.

Here's another example from 'today'. Everyone in our office who voted to remain actually bothered to read campaign literature from both sides. Everyone who voted to leave said they hadn't read any of the campaign literature.

Admittedly this is a small sample, so you can attack me on the grounds of poor statistical rigour if you like.

Commers when using brackets 😉

Here's another example from 'today'. Everyone in our office who voted to remain actually bothered to read campaign literature from both sides. Everyone who voted to leave said they hadn't read any of the campaign literature.

It was pointless reading the campaign literature. The only sources for the really story were from independent experts, which were promptly ignored.

Agreed on the commas. I suppose you deliberately spelt it wrong to entice me, you tease.

😉 😉

It was pointless reading the campaign literature. The only sources for the really story were from independent experts, which were promptly ignored.

Reading it would have demonstrated more care about making an informed choice, though.

Willful ignorance pisses me off.

So prior to the vote why did you and your relevant colleagues not engage them with you reading and share that reading????????? Of course not all learn by reading so chatting and talking would have allowed you the chance to impart your research

No the spelling was my dyslexia - apologies

So prior to the vote why did you and your relevant colleagues not engage them with you reading and share that reading????????? Of course not all learn by reading so chatting and talking would have allowed you the chance to impart your research

We've done that one. It is because I would have been dismissed as condescending, superior etc.

Can we just switch this around for a minute so I can ask you a question?

What do you think the correlation between IQ and the leave/remain polarity is? Be honest now.

It would be an even more stark correlation if it was academic qualifications versus leave/remain, but I think we all know that that is not truly fair as there is more to intelligence than the ability to demonstrate it in an exam hall.

Peter Hitchens is gloating over the discomfiture of the "Elites" and is looking forward to new poltical parties rising from the populist bases, all of which (it seems to me from the various TV voxpops that I've seen) seem to consist of unpleasant people of a mixture of stripe complaining about foriegners. Some even said that they voted "leave" but didn't know why. I get the feeling that the Body Politic is terminally sick.

Do you think it might time to search for an alternative to the various forms of social functionality that we've tried up to now, including considering that Democracy may have had it's day?

Does this make London less attractive to Oil Sheiks and Russian Oligarchs?

A weak pound makes London more attractive for foreign investors. So currently as far as buying luxury properties and leaving them to sit empty it's more attractive. If your oligarchs and sheiks were looking for a European base from which to conduct business then any added complications that might* be imposed would make London less attractive.

* I say 'might' as nobody had a plan for this massively important thing that we all voted on, but in reality I expect there will be some added complications to cross border business deals.