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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

 Andy
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It is labour dithering that has or will enable a Tory brexit. You forget that labour are being destroyed in the polls not because they have gone remain, but because they didn’t go remain hard enough.

Agreed, and also maybe they are being destroyed in the polls, or rather they are slowly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory because they didnt really do anything. That and Corbyn is still an electoral liability


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 6:47 pm
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Again from Facebook:

Kerry McCarthy

As you may well have heard, this morning the highest court in Scotland ruled that the 5 week prorogation of Parliament by Boris Johnson was illegal, and void. The wording of the judgment is damning. Lord Carloway said that prorogation would be unlawful if “its purpose was to stymie parliamentary scrutiny of the executive, which was a central pillar of the good governance principle enshrined in the constitution”; all three judges decided that it was. Lord Brodie said that attempting to frustrate parliament in this way was “an egregious case of a clear failure to comply with generally accepted standards of behaviour of public authorities”. And Lord Drummon Young said that “the only inference that could be drawn was that the UK Government and the Prime Minister wished to restrict Parliament."

I am proud to be one of the MPs who put their name to this application. Parliament should be sitting at this time of national crisis. Today I joined a cross-party group of MPs outside Parliament, calling for Parliament to return.

(Followed by loads of brexies arguing that it's only unlawful and not illegal...)


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 7:10 pm
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(I wonder idly whether if it goes to the Supreme Court and gets the same result, the leavers will want it to go to Europe...)


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 7:14 pm
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It's about now that we need a referendum on Scottish Independence - all voting to take place in England.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 7:15 pm
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(I wonder idly whether if it goes to the Supreme Court and gets the same result, the leavers will want it to go to Europe…)

The leaders will, they NEED Brexit to happen and, cynical bastards that they are, don’t give a shit how it happens.

The stupid sheep that follow won’t even notice the irony and hypocrisy.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 7:18 pm
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The unbridled hatred for Scotland daring to have the temerity to get involved above their station is just splendid. We should know our place!

Union of equals my arse. Independence can't come quick enough.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 7:42 pm
 AD
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A few dickheads on facebook doesn't make for pure unbridled hatred.
Any more than some of comments from Scots about the English. Please don't buy into it.

That kind of divisiveness is EXACTLY what Cummings and his ilk are aiming for.

Personally I'm loving the thought of how the quitlings are reconciling their anointed one lying to the Queen 🙂


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 8:03 pm
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Can someone please enlighten me as to why the unions / mcCluckclucky are so against the EU? Surely they should be pro EU as a backstop (s****) for workers rights??

Nick


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 8:08 pm
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Because Len McCluskey is a dinosaur.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 8:13 pm
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Beautifully reasoned.

Yes he is a dinosaur but I can't find his public protestations as to why we need to leave.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 8:21 pm
 mrmo
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https://twitter.com/BylineTimes/status/1171802273342795776

no conflict honest.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 8:46 pm
 mrmo
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but I can’t find his public protestations as to why we need to leave.

difficult to re-nationalise utilities and industries while in the EU


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:11 pm
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Yellow hammer is a 5 page document?


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:14 pm
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difficult to re-nationalise utilities and industries while in the EU

Somewhere around 0% chance if it happening outside the EU


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:17 pm
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mmm, so what is in the redacted part of that pdf?


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:18 pm
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Yellow hammer is a 5 page document?

Good to see it seems to be photocopied. I assume to try and hide any awkward metadata and makes it difficult to search.
I want to see that blanked out paragraph. I cant see NI mentioned anywhere (although see search difficulties) so reckon thats it and they aint too optimistic its going to go well there.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:20 pm
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Bloody hell, that makes for bleak reading. Should be handed out to all those who voted leave.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:31 pm
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I imagine the doc was scanned to prevent a manafprt style release where you could just unhide the redaction


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:40 pm
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From listening to leave voters, that’ll not bother them much.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:41 pm
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Can they read? More seriously, dogmatically they couldn't believe it and would claim project fear


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:42 pm
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It’ll be dismissed as an extreme worst case scenario. At best! A bit of belt tightening will do us good, short term pain etc etc.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:51 pm
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So the government wrote its own Project Fear manifesto 😉


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:57 pm
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At least watching the inhabitants of Thurrock killing each other for the last Krispy Kreme at Tesco’s will be entertaining.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 9:58 pm
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It’ll be dismissed as an extreme worst case scenario. At best! A bit of belt tightening will do us good, short term pain etc etc.

Which just goes to show what an amazing con job has been done. We've gone from:
we hold all the cards
there are no negatives, only positives
taking back control
sovereignity
£350million a week for the NHS

to delays, rising costs and fuel/food/medicine shortages. And no-one (well, none of the Leavers) seem upset or annoyed by this...

It's like finding out you've been conned out of your entire life savings and rather than being furious with yourself for falling for it and the scammer for conning you, you're just going "oh well, I hope the scammer has a nice time with the money"


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:02 pm
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Scotland should just start making lots more shit illegal.

Mentioning the 1966 World Cup should land you a ten stretch for starters


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:08 pm
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Summary, for those who CBA to read a five page document (commentary in brackets):

People and businesses in the UK aren't prepared. The EU27 is.

The impact to the EU would be negative in "a small number of cases" (they need us more than etc etc...)

Protests across UK expected.

Low income groups disproportionately affected.

Agri-food hardest hit. Fresh food supply will decrease. (And Christmas is a-coming.)

Medicine shortages could last 6 months. Veterinary supply shortages could exacerbate epidemics.

Kent gridlocked. Lorries will be waiting to cross the Channel for two days.

Fuel disrupted, especially in London / SE.

Financial services disrupted.

If there's water cleaning chemical supply chain disruption it will now only likely affect hundreds of thousands of people (!)

Data flow from the EU stops. Rectifying "could take years." (This is Really Bad.)

No more EHIC. (Get sick on holiday, best have your credit card to hand.)

Gibraltar (anyone remember them?) is basically ****ed.

Trade in Ireland severely disrupted and the "no backstop" notion unsustainable beyond a few days or weeks. Rise in illegal trading, job losses, protests.

Nearly 300 non-UK fishing vessels poised to rock up on day one and stripmine our waters. (Which is just weapons-grade ironic given how much time we've spent in the last three years papping on about fish like it's important to more than about ten people). Smuggling, people trafficking.

Adult social care will be screwed, but then it's screwed to start with.

(Sunny uplands, anyone?)


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:13 pm
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mmm, so what is in the redacted part of that pdf?

Source pending verification so pinch of salt but,

15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans. This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000). Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries."


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:19 pm
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The Sunday Times reporter who got the leaked copy several weeks back has been doing a compare.
Apparently the difference is
drumroll.
The title and the redacted paragraph.

The missing paragraph is:

"15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans.
This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000).
Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries." (3/3)


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:25 pm
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Oh and its also worth remembering when the Sunday Times reported it initially you had a bunch of tories, including Gove claiming it was an outdated document. Looked a bit stupid when it was shown it was a couple of weeks old but now he looks even more of a lying arsehole since it wasnt even updated inbetween.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:28 pm
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Full text version. You're welcome.

https://pastebin.com/gwevsbtx


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:34 pm
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Gov is refusing to show messages of its advisers despite MPs voting for it .

is that ven legal ?


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:35 pm
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Of course, they haven’t just rehashed the old one and pretended it’s the new one to avoid releasing the really bad  new version where there is no more room in hell due to all the places now  reserved for Brexiteers and, as a consequence, the dead  will walk the earth.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:38 pm
 mrmo
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Further thoughts, this isn't yellow hammer, it might be a briefing paper, or the preface. Where are the tables, the expanded commentary etc.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 10:58 pm
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Indeed. So much happening behind closed doors at the moment. So much being lied about (again).


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 11:10 pm
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perchypanther

there is no more room in hell due to all the places now reserved for Brexiteers and, as a consequence, the dead will walk the earth.

That made me lol.😁


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 11:22 pm
 Drac
Posts: 50615
 

Yeah a 6 page report? Looks like something knokced up in a blind panic.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 11:30 pm
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Gov is refusing to show messages of its advisers despite MPs voting for it .

Next step is a court order and failure disclose become a criminal contempt. I can recommend following David Allen Green and the Secret Barrister on Twitter. Useful for seeing how the twists and turns will play out.


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 11:40 pm
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Not sure if this has bindun (I'm not going to check) but it's an interesting theory on the motivations of some of the richer brexiteers...

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/a-reminder-of-all-the-brexiteers-who-appeared-in-the-paradise-papers-as-eu-tax-avoidance-legislation-looms/03/09/


 
Posted : 11/09/2019 11:46 pm
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So Boris has made concessions to (mostly Chinese) international students giving them two years to work after graduating and HKEX just made a low ball bid for the LSE as well.

The vultures are circling my friends.


 
Posted : 12/09/2019 12:36 am
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Well this is fun.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1171899077807747076?

Seems that overview was from a year ago and the document was 37 pages long back in February.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1091613737923067905


 
Posted : 12/09/2019 12:47 am
 Del
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Lol. Good digging cougar!


 
Posted : 12/09/2019 12:50 am
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You know,

We've been played again. This document has been designed to look like something "leaked," and the redacted bit is a diversion to make people (like me) feel superficially clever in finding the missing bits.

But this isn't the full document, is it. It's another lie, with the hope that we'll lap it up and stop asking questions.


 
Posted : 12/09/2019 12:52 am
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No wonder he wanted an extra 20,000 police


 
Posted : 12/09/2019 12:53 am
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... or, wait, is that the DfT response document?


 
Posted : 12/09/2019 12:58 am
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