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There is a clear danger that Johnson could manipulate the eec tiuon process to stop parliament blocking no deal and to allow us to fall out on the 31st. this is why its right that the opposition parties should control the timing of this and ensure another election is not until the extension has been requested
Thornberry:
The problem that we have is that the motion that the government has put before, and it looks like will put again, is a motion under the Fixed-term Parliament Act under clauses 2 (7) and 3 of the Fixed-term Parliament Act, if we vote to have a general election, then no matter what it is that Boris Johnson promises, it is up to him to advise the Queen when the general election should be. And given that he has shown himself to be a manifest liar, and someone who has said that he will die in a ditch rather than stop no deal, and indeed his adviser, [Dominic] Cummings, has been swearing and shouting at MPs saying they are leaving on 31 [October] no matter what, our first priority has to be that we must stop no deal and we must make sure that that is going to happen.
this is why its right that the opposition parties should control the timing of this and ensure another election is not until the extension has been requested
Yep. Force Johnson to either fail at Brexit or resign, which will hand a chunk of their support back to the Brexit party and might let Labour in, if not with a majority.
Because many remainers have about the same level of intelligence on this issue as the brexiteers.
How about getting the message to voters, rather than expecting them to sit a test.
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1169928730652733440
Hardly scientific I know but I'm getting worried that 75%+ of people the BBC News ask respond "just leave now" regardless of how they originally voted. I'm all for Brexit getting settled one way or another sooner rather than later but I despair if a GE or 2nd referendum outcome would be more determined by people being fed up of the whole mess rather than actually caring about the consequences of what they're voting for.
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
Infantile. How many people will see this and just come to the conclusion that we’d be better off handing power over to the adults, any adults, instead of supporting the Conservatives?
Hardly scientific I know
You could have stopped there.
There is no realistic way forward without a public vote, but don’t worry, it’s not just people in BBC vox pops and shouty Question Time audience members who get to vote.
til, the commentators on that aren't exactly falling over themselves to congratulate the conservatives on a deft visual jibe well delivered.
my particular favourite is "You're about as good at social media as Boris Johnson is at prime ministering."
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
Well, I just read "Conservative Party considering a vote of no confidence in itself" and I genuinely don't know if it's satire or news.
I've just realised the irony of them tweeting KFC. A company that is well aware of the dangers of disrupting your supply chain.
We’re done. As a country. As a Union. An uninformed and squabbling electorate. A dysfunctional government with no functional alternative. Done. Cooked. Eaten. Regurgitated. Now reduced to arguing over the vomit.
Next step in this globally historical groundhog day is for the ‘traitor’ jibes to begin.
Bargain booze establishments, tabloids and ‘talk radio’ style jocks will do well out of this be doing well out of this. Feeding the hearts and minds. So what next? What to do?
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
Even more depressing when you realise that it 'works'.
'We' as a society should be insulted (actually we should be furious) that 'we' are considered ripe for such tactics.
Right now is Cummings looking like the tactical genius he’s cracked up to be? Blojos strategy looks to be in tatters 👍👍👍. Perhaps he’ll declare no confidence in himself?
You’re just plain wrong about the respective intelligence of leavers and remainers. Dazh:
Conflation city ... you are citing a 'poll' from yougov about education, not intelligence.
Daz didn't say anything about education.
^^^^
thats not even close to the worst tweet youll see today....
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/1169850394375098368
The absolute state of this, what has politics become?
Disgraceful and reminded me of:
I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left. -Mrs T
Yep. Force Johnson to either fail at Brexit or resign, which will hand a chunk of their support back to the Brexit party and might let Labour in, if not with a majority.
Yup that's the plan, and a perfectly reasonable one. I just wish they wouldn't insult everyone intelligence with a implausible "We think Boris will change the date to do a hard Brexit at the worst possible time for him" nonsense.
It's not an area I know much about, but the very fact that they're so blatantly screaming "chicken" at Corbyn clearly to goad him into capitulating is all I need to know that he was absolutely right not to agree.
Don’t vote for a party offering the (remote) possibility of a referendum when you can vote for a party with remain and revoking Art.50 as policy.
Because, we've seen this movie before, haven't we. Mass tactical voting in the GE to shut out the Tories involved many people holding their noses and voting for Labour, spun conclusion "80% of people voted for pro-brexit parties."
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And this is our proud "democracy"?
Now IMO this is the death rattle of the tories
I think that's likely, but they *could* win one more election thanks to momentum which begs the question depending on the polls over the next five years would they change to a PR system, perhaps to keep the Lib dems on board in some arrangement and to scupper Labour in future and also ensure that although they become a minority party in future they don't totally evaporate.
Well, I just read “Conservative Party considering a vote of no confidence in itself” and I genuinely don’t know if it’s satire or news.
Seemed inevitable to me, there's no other way for them to quit and they need to. Deffo the least worst option, if it works.
Blojos strategy looks to be in tatters
Unless he wins an election in which case he'll have 5 years and all his rebels are gone. Problem is at the end of five years he'll have a 'brexit' party which was in power party due votes Brexiteers from other parties who will go straight back to their previous party.
...and that assumes he wins which nobody would bet the ranch on.
Robert Peston
@Peston
Opposition parties will again vote against general election on Monday. The debate between leaders of Labour, SNP, LibDems, Plaid and Greens is whether to vote for election a day or two after Queen’s Speech on Oct 14 or day or three after EU summit on 17-18 October. Either way, it is all about making sure @BorisJohnson either goes to Brussels to beg for a Brexit delay or resigns to allow a temporary government of national unity AND means the general election would be in November (mid to late). How does Johnson escape this trap?
Got him? Has he been outplayed? Maybe thats why his appearance in Aberdeenshire was so shambolic - he has realised he has blown it 🙂
Glass too full?
The morning the result came out I thought there's no way this will ever happen. I still don't, although until this week I've felt less and less confident in thinking that.
Why would any part of the opposition to this right-wing cabal be in any hurry for a GE? This mess is entirely of the Tories' own making, anyone else coming into government would immediately own it. This is very different from resisting a GE because you're happy with the incumbents or afraid you might lose.
Right now the Tory party is tearing itself apart. All they have to focus on is this giant mess they've created. A split between (the term is very relative!) 'moderates' and the rest isn't inconceivable, these people like power after all. That wouldn't be happening were they to find themselves in opposition, there they'd have the opportunity to regroup under a banner they can unite around. The banner currently flying is far more divisive for them than it is for any of the opposition parties. Of those, everyone bar Labour is clear on a single party position; it's entirely understandable to me that Labour isn't - the Labour party is a broader church than the rest of the opposition (I mean that purely quantitatively, I don't vote Labour) so views on Brexit are bound to be more disparate - the difference is, until the Tories brought it up and shoved it in front of everyone, membership of the EU wasn't such a big deal for Labour supporters.
Keep them on the hot seat for a while yet I reckon!
Also, we've heard little detail on the likely end product of the Benn amendment. The government may well be legally compelled to seek a further A50 extension, but how likely are the other EU member states to grant this? And what happens if they don't?
I thought QT was great last night! All the Brexiteers had to offer was mansplaining, empty soundbites and whataboutery. Apart from when he interrupted the radio presenter guy, I thought Ian Blackford did pretty well, he didn't allow himself to be drawn into bickering and said what he needed to say. The remain side of the argument should now be stressing that calling the whole shitshow off and revoking A50 is the quickest way to "make it all stop", which is undoubtedly what a sizeable chunk of the electorate now wants.
Quentin Letts is neither stupid nor ill-informed.
Think about that for a second or two.
Then consider the sheer malevolent cynicism that lay behind that tweet.
Got him? Has he been outplayed?
Whilst it's right to be wary, I get a bit sick of the 'Cummings has a plan, he's gamed it all' view. Looking at the facts, Cummings may well be clever, but he's a loose cannon, prone to tantrums and thinks all you have to do is create chaos to succeed. Johnson has spent an entire career winging it, and falling back on his jocular image to paper over the obvious absence of anything under the surface. The whole edifice is crumbling now in the face of an organised, determined for now united front rallied against them. My bet is that they're not half as clever as people give them credit for, and as long as the opposition parties don't start fighting each other, the tories will soon be history.
And another point, is it at all possible that following the recent detente between labour and the libdems, that maybe Swinson would now accept an interim govt led by Corbyn if it is requried?
Keep them on the hot seat for a while yet I reckon!
I'm strongly coming to this conclusion now too. The next potential split is between the ERG and Johnson when he inevitably starts dampening his enthusiasm for no deal. The longer he's in post the more he will be worn down by the civil service. The aim of the opposition parties should be splinter them into factions who will take votes off each other in an election.
Right now the Tory party is tearing itself apart.
Yes, that is inevitable as they have Europhile amongst them that will not agree with the direction PM BoJo is heading.
Same will go to Labour later, if they get into power which is a big if, as their politicians are rather distance from their voters in the North (Not Scotland), whether this will cause the same split in their party remains to be seen but the likelihood is high.
And another point, is it at all possible that following the recent detente between labour and the libdems, that maybe Swinson would now accept an interim govt led by Corbyn if it is requried?
If she held the balance of power she'd have to in some from for the same reasons that they had to before. However the Lib Dems aren't going to win *that* many seats, my bet is the SNP will be in the spot light with the nightmare of propping up an unpopular Govt (Blue or red) or forcing the UK to hold an endless series of inconclusive elections. (And that would be bad for the SNP as well. Their voters would say "I keep voting for you, and you keep refusing power.")
The next potential split is between the ERG and Johnson when he inevitably starts dampening his enthusiasm for no deal.
Or he loses more of those MPs in his party currently quiet but worried about No Deal. At some point his game of “I want a deal” and simultaneously, “we should leave without a deal” will end, and he’ll have to pick one of those positions if he’s to be the man who takes the UK out of the EU. He can’t take all his MPs who still have the whip with him, whichever he choses… which is why he’s desperate to try and fix it so that when he makes that call MPs are kept out of the decision making/ratifying process.
Out of Breath
All the snp have to do is vote for a corbyn queens speech / agree supply and confidence. Labour runs a minority government so SNP effectively get a veto power. Anytime the tories want to make something a confidence vote they can - assuming labour have not upset the snp too much then the snp will vote with the labour government. Fixed term parliaments. Its not in the SNPs interest to collapse things and on a left / right spectrum there really is not a fag paper between them. The SNP would not have any interest in taking any cabinet seats bar perhaps scottish office but I would be suprised at even that.
Depends to a great extent on how the numbers add up how any SP arrangements with labour would work but if they are the largest party they form a government and challenge the other parties to vote down a queens speech.
Never would the snp vote for a tory government queen speech
All the snp have to do is vote for a corbyn queens speech / agree supply and confidence. Labour runs a minority government so SNP effectively get a veto power. Anytime the tories want to make something a confidence vote they can – assuming labour have not upset the snp too much then the snp will vote with the labour government.
Yes, as I say, they could end up propping up an unpopular government, they don't want to, but when you think it through for the small parties it's sometimes impossible to avoid. Historically the chances were slim. In this day and age where the increase in small parties make decent majorities very difficult for the two big parties it's become a likelihood. It used to be a risk for the Lib Dems, but it could be they end up with so few seats they're no longer in the frame.
There is a growing section of the Scottish independence movement that is increasingly disappointed at the amount of energy the SNP are focusing on Brexit and who would likely think "why are we choosing which colour of government the English get rather than leaving them to get on with it".
why are we choosing which colour of government the English get rather than leaving them to get on with it
Seems a bit of a daft attitude. Why wouldn't you participate, if you can get what you want as part of the bargain? No Westminster party is going to agree to Indyref2 unless Sturgeon has some kind of electoral leverage and actively uses it.
Hence a number of articles/commentators putting out the "trust Nicola she knows what she is doing" message.
brexit is the best thing that couldve happened to the SNP after indyref1 defeat
Th poll backs up what I said a couple pages back. If Johnson doesn't get it done by 31st October as he promised, a lot of tory voters will switch to Brexit Party thinking they will somehow get it done (even against the same opposing people..)
The obvious problem is that BXP and CON could then join together for the majority.
Ouch squeeze is on for the DUP , who are already worried about losing a seat to Alliance
(Also smart for SF as alliance threatens them, tho not to same degree)
That doesn’t smack of desperation at all, does it?
How’s Dom’s ‘strategic genius’ looking today?
binners
That doesn’t smack of desperation at all, does it?How’s Dom’s ‘strategic genius’ looking today?
My mind is blown maybe there really are a lot of people who this appeals to?
The UK government have resorted to sending dead animals to people, for the purpose of advertising?
Absolutely disgusting, if that's true.
KFC are threatening to sue the Tory’s for breach of copyright unless they pack it in.
Whoever does their social meedya is also having some fun winding the Tory’s up 😀
https://twitter.com/kfc_uki/status/1169151825725087744?s=21
That’d top off a great week for who the brilliant John Crace is now referring to as Dom and Dommer
HoL has backed the Prevent No Deal bill.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/06/house-lords-approves-bill-block-no-deal-brexit-10699603
Expect to see them on the front page of the Express tomorrow, calling for the unelected undemocratic traitors of the people to be sacked off, or some such.