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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

 dazh
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Sticking your head round the door of an echo chamber and going “JFDI!!!!” isn’t offering an alternative view.

Of course it is. For better or worse the politicians got us into this mess and it’s not unreasonable to expect them to get us out of it, however difficult it is or whatever their excuses are. The impatience of the people who shout “get on with it” is driven from this simple fact.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 1:30 pm
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Ultimately I can't see any GE result returning anything other than the large majority of seats being Tory and Labour. I think that FPTP and hardening Brexit position in Tories will mean next to no seats for Brexit Party

Clearly SNP will own Scotland. LibDems will make gains, but I'd be really surprised to see them getting anything more than 20 seats nationally

The real battles are Tory versus Labour and a big impact of LibDems and Brexit Party gaining support will be how many votes they take off the main two parties in blue/red marginals


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 1:41 pm
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According to the ft via h&l website the EU has enough.
Sounds like on yer bike time - auf deinem Fahrrad - sur votre vélo
https://www.hl.co.uk/news/2019/9/5/how-europe-views-the-brexit-endgame


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 1:42 pm
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I think that FPTP and hardening Brexit position in Tories will mean next to no seats for Brexit Party

That is where the timing is key. After October 31st the "just get on with it" Brexiters will have had enough of Johnson as he missed the date and vote for the Brexit Party who due to their skills and experience with international politics will get it all sorted out in 10 minutes.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 1:48 pm
 Del
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If a snap election is called around mid October, I’m a registered voter but will be out the country with work, how will I vote? I can’t seem to find anything on line and it would seem I’m too late to register for a postal vote.

Register for a Postal vote now. If you are around you can drop it in to a polling station, if not you can post it. You're local polling officer might be happy to just receive an emailed scan of your signed application to vote by post - mine was. Do nothing and you'll definitely not get a vote.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 1:53 pm
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According to the ft via h&l website the EU has enough.
Sounds like on yer bike time – auf deinem Fahrrad – sur votre vélo
https://www.hl.co.uk/news/2019/9/5/how-europe-views-the-brexit-endgame/blockquote >

Well, that's just about the most depressing thing I've read in months.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 1:58 pm
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It hardens their position

so what? It won't make their food/medicine shortages any more easy to bear will it? How ill those people who voted leave show up on the unemployment statistics? The same, they'll show up the same.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:03 pm
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If a snap election is called around mid October, I’m a registered voter but will be out the country with work, how will I vote? I can’t seem to find anything on line and it would seem I’m too late to register for a postal vote.

Register for a proxy vote. Your local council will have info on their website for this


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:14 pm
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Well, that’s just about the most depressing thing I’ve read in months.

I've long been wondering when the EU would get to that stage... 🙁


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:24 pm
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Well, that’s just about the most depressing thing I’ve read in months.

Not great is it.

A lot of it is unsurprising. The EU doesn't depend on us. They won't be hit particularly hard. They're already ready for Britain to GTFO, in fact they're already operating as if we had done.

The bit that is really bad is that most of the EU now doesn't even want us to remain. We're a poisonous wart that they'd like removed.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:26 pm
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I've gotten lost with all the twists and turns over the last few days. What's the thinking behind not calling a VONC and forming a new government now? Surely they have the numbers.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:30 pm
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It seems insane to me that, with the opposition parties united in their claimed desire to avert no deal, they don't call a VONC and form a government with the sole purpose of blocking no deal and then calling an election.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:36 pm
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If we accept freedom of movement do all the problems go away?

All dumbojo needs to do is say that he's wangled a deal where we can kick out eu nationals that can't support themselves after 60 days and he would be carried aloft like the messiah.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:38 pm
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The impatience of the people who shout “get on with it” is driven from this simple fact.

They are trying to though, the fact it's not moving or even going well isn't reason to blame the politicans though, and especially not for simply not bothering, it's because it's frigging impossible to do without totally screwing up the country.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:43 pm
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It seems insane to me that, with the opposition parties united in their claimed desire to avert no deal, they don’t call a VONC and form a government with the sole purpose of blocking no deal and then calling an election.

In fairness, they've only been back in Westminster for 48 hours, thanks to Bojos planed suspension of parliament they had 4 days to pass something through the Commons for 2 readings and the Lords.

I'd bet there have been many calls and meetings between the Rebel Alliance about VONC, but priority No1 is stopping no-deal.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:53 pm
 Del
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I’d bet there have been many calls and meetings between the Rebel Alliance about VONC, but priority No1 is stopping no-deal.

But they have the numbers to form a government now that could easily pass whatever legislation it needs to block no deal, doesn't it?


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 2:56 pm
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Magic, innit?

Mind you, the red top comic books' MO has always been to take the p*ss out of whatever target will sell the most rags.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 3:00 pm
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But they have the numbers to form a government now that could easily pass whatever legislation it needs to block no deal, doesn’t it?

They didn't need to be in government to do that.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 3:02 pm
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As an aside, weren’t Dave’s memoirs due to be published this month?

The publisher probably told him he’s best leaving that for a bit. Maybe a decade or so.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 3:07 pm
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Mr Rees-Mogg said: "We all have in our families disagreement over an issue that is of fundamental importance to us all.

"That is why it is right to put it back to a general election so they can decide."

So, the people need to decide in a General Election (that conveniently the Tories might win) but not in a second referendum?

****'s sake Mogg.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 3:14 pm
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So, the people need to decide in a General Election (that conveniently the Tories might win) but not in a second referendum?

****’s sake Mogg.

Of course, referendums are non-binding and advisory innit.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 3:17 pm
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As an aside, weren’t Dave’s memoirs due to be published this month?

On the 19th. So be careful going near bookstores on that day to avoid getting crushed in the rush.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 3:18 pm
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So, the people need to decide in a General Election (that conveniently the Tories might win) but not in a second referendum?

Yes, because that is right and proper. And a referendum isn't. Oh, er, hang on.

Have you noticed how much he uses the words right and proper?

Makes it sound like everything is being done according to some ancient royally ensconced system. Like the Queen's own laws, or something.

And in the background, he's earned £7mil from shorting the pound in advance knowledge of political events. Nothing to see there.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 3:24 pm
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Are you going to answer my question on how the current situation tallies with your original assertation that you wanted a Norway style deal?

I’d like to know this as well @DavidBelstein. Which is more like a Norway style deal (or even what surveys showed that most Leave voters wanted at the time of the referendum… part of the common/single market but not involved in ever increasing political unification of the EU)…?

a) No Deal… with no imminent trade deal in the pipeline and no transition period that keeps us in the Single Market while we seek a trade deal.

b) Our current deal with the EU that lets us set the rules of the Single Market, and stay out of the Euro, out of Schengen, out of closer union, allowing us to have separate UK+Ireland arrangements, exemption from EU fiscal rules … etc etc


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 4:36 pm
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Yes, because that is right and proper. And a referendum isn’t. Oh, er, hang on.

We've had the referendum and it delivered a result. The GE would be to provide the government with a mandate to carry on as they are. Or not if they lost, then someone else gets to have a go. That's how democracy works isn't it ?


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 5:01 pm
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And if we end up with more MPs who support us having a referendum than those that don’t? That’s how democracy works isn’t it?

- A50 extension ‘till January.
- Election during the extension.
- Next government can act as it sees fit as regards Brexit, if the majority of MPs support it.
- That could include seeking further updated advice from the public in another referendum.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 5:03 pm
 dazh
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The GE would be to provide the government with a mandate to carry on as they are.

This. Just like in 2015 when people voted for Referendum v.1, if there is to be a v.2 then they people need to vote for it via a GE if it's to have any legitimacy. There will be a clear choice, no deal under the tory nutters, or a referendum under labour and whoever supports them. Then we'll find out how 3 years of old people dying and young people turning 18 will have changed the numbers.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 5:07 pm
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Just call for a GE to let the people decide.

All political parties can then come up with their manifesto/slogan/whatever to let the people decide after all the politicians have failed in their "1st" attempt (can't remember how many attempts now but just called 1st attempt since it is related to the referendum). 🤔


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 5:21 pm
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I live in a blue/red marginal with Lib-Dems distant 3rd (20,000 votes distant). Labour will simply not win if Labour people switch to LibDem.

I'm a LibDem voter but if my constituency was a blue/red marginal I would definitely be voting Labour as the best way of reducing conservative seats.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 5:47 pm
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Corbyn needs to be very careful accepting a GE too soon- will blow up in his face

his best bet will be after the 31st

at the moment he is in the driving seat, but johnson still leads in the polls, even if he is a wretched PM


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 5:48 pm
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Corbyn needs to be very careful accepting a GE too soon- will blow up in his face

Agreed.

https://giphy.com/gifs/starwars-movie-star-wars-3ornka9rAaKRA2Rkac


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 5:56 pm
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Brexit party will of course be a GE force

I hope so. That way the Tory/Brexit vote will be diluted (assuming no pact but I can't see the Torys ever agreeing to such a thing) resulting in fewer seats for either.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 5:58 pm
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Can but hope.

At least, that's about all I can do at a GE, my local borough was 60% Bluekip in 2017. I couldn't tactically vote even if I want to. The first past the post system is truly tosh.

Even the flipping last local council election was essentially a choice between UKIP and Tory. AARGHH!


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 6:04 pm
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First time I've seen this guff on facebook

COPY & PASTE & let the world know the truth.
I have realised that the Remainers have been right all along when they say I did not know all the true facts before voting to leave, and it's true! We WERE lied to apparently - so I decided to do a little research.
I just voted to leave because I thought our sovereignty was being compromised by foreign unelected masters. That we were compelled to have unlimited uncontrolled immigration, our laws and export agreements dictated by Brussels bureaucrats - and had to pay eye-watering amounts for the privilege
However...
I DID NOT KNOW more than 10,000 EU officials get paid more than our Prime Minister.
I DID NOT KNOW that, unlike the UK, 18 countries get more back from the EU than they put in.
I DID NOT KNOW that the EU occupies over 45 buildings - 2 of which were purpose built monuments of grandeur and are the largest buildings in Europe.
I DID NOT KNOW that the EU Parliament spends 150 million euros a year moving to Strasbourg every month for 4 days committee meetings - and any attempt to stop this madness is vetoed by France.
I DID NOT KNOW that the EU has had a huge luxury shopping Mall built in Brussels for exclusive use of EU employees.
I DID NOT KNOW that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars, with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.
I DID NOT KNOW that many of them (like the Kinnocks) end up as millionaires as a reward for looking the other way!
I DID NOT KNOW that Clegg was lying when he mocked Nigel Farage for saying that an EU army was being planned - and Brussels said all along that it would NEVER happen.
I DID NOT KNOW that the EU had been financing the mass movement of industries from UK to mainland Europe.
I DID NOT KNOW that every member of the EU Council has to swear an Oath of Allegiance to the EU - so they are not a country's representative to the EU. They are the EU's representative to the country!
I could go on and on but suffice it to say that I have never for a moment doubted the correctness of my decision but I am now more sure than ever.
I am so glad that the Remainers prompted me to look deeper into the bureaucratic absurdity of being in the EU.
Apart from all that, everything's fine and anything Boris does to upset the silly and biased little Speaker and other pant-wetters in Parliament gets my full backing! This was written by Paul Jonathon, and he wants it spread. I am happy to do so it's brilliant.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 6:10 pm
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Oh god theres definitely an election coming if those spam posts are doing the rounds again

farage been spending all those dodgy foreign donations on his bot army


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 6:14 pm
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I DID NOT KNOW that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars, with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.

That's the Brexit Party for you.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 6:15 pm
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I DID NOT KNOW that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars, with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.

Sounds like my local dole office come signing on day, but substitute Limo's for Uber cabs 😁😁


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 6:26 pm
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Actually. I'm not sure that is all entirely guff. There is no doubt the EU needs to be reformed: If you look at this thread there are a lot of Remainers on here who were expressing indifference/distinct lack of enthusiasm towards the EU before the referendum took place. I suggest that is one reason why Remain lost. It took the realisation of what we were actually losing for a lot of people to turn so ardently pro-EU.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 6:30 pm
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I don't think those people were anit-EU as such, just clever enough to know that for all it's issues cutting our own nose off was not the solution to the problem.

I DID NOT KNOW that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars, with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.

Well if anyone should know the facts on this it would be the likes of Farage.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 7:19 pm
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andy4d

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But as the country is so split 50% will be unhappy what ever the outcome is. How do you rebuild from this?

I missed this at the time but actually, 50% unhappy is the absolute best case scenario, if we remain. It's the same thing as I mentioned earlier, there's no brexit that satisfies all brexiteers. A no deal brexit probably leaves the most people unhappy. A brexit-in-name-only probably the next. But for the same reason that every brexit would be the will of the minority, and of a smaller minority than remaining, every brexit also leaves more people unhappy than no brexit at all.

More irony, the only thing that can unite brexiteers and keep them as a minority is remaining, every possible brexit divides them and leads to the satisfied brexiteers being a minority. There's absolutely no possible outcome that has majority support.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 7:43 pm
 ctk
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Absolutely the worst thing about the EU is our Brexit Party MEPs.

The Brussels Strasbourg thing is ridiculous as well.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 7:57 pm
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If you look at this thread there are a lot of Remainers on here who were expressing indifference/distinct lack of enthusiasm towards the EU before the referendum took place

I still have indifference to the EU and would not vote to join if we were not in it. For pretty much the same reason as I would not vote to leave when we are in it - it is unnecessary disruption for no particular gain, i.e. not worth the effort.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 8:14 pm
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The Brussels Strasbourg thing is ridiculous as well.

I used to think exactly this… and the fact that it’s down to French probably made me even more against it… but then several things happened (in Brussels & London) that made me think that having more than one site has plenty of advantages… so even that doesn’t bother me much anymore.


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 8:31 pm
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Meanwhile in a ditch somewhere Wakefield and London...


 
Posted : 05/09/2019 9:11 pm
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