Yes Ro5ey. The bard was really good at writing stuff that kept him in Elizabeth Tudor's good books. Very wise if he wanted to keep his head. What's your point, exactly? Will you be reccommending re-equipping the RAF with Spitfires next?
Rockape63 - Member
...Possibly this will be the start of something better, including our relationship with existing EU countries, as the EU staggers and falls.
so, this 'something better' involves our most important trading partner 'staggering and falling'...?
if my clients 'stagger and fall', that's bad news for my profit.
FTSE 100 v 250 - more likely levels of liquidity IMO
Wondered about that, but also about the likelihood of significant amounts of the company income coming from foreign subsidiaries.
MrWhoppit - the last two lines maybe.
Will you be reccommending re-equipping the RAF with Spitfires next?
Pfft. Every knows it was Hurricanes wot won the Battle.
So Farage has admitted the 350m figure for the NHS was a'mistake'
Oh I don't know. Using blatant lies and scaremongering got him exactly what he wanted.
Assuming the whole 52% who voted out are closet racists and thick is damn insulting!
Oh OK. The whole 52% who voted out are closet racists OR thick.
This is one area I find puzzling, if the farmers allegedly get so much cash from the EU, how come the bulk of them were overwhelming OUT?
I can understand this a bit. It's the big guys in farming who currently do well from the EU. Look at where the Leave farmers are. They tend to be smaller outfits and probably are overwhelmed by red tape and paperwork for what they see is little monetary gain. Of course if we want to trade with Europe post-EU, those regs will still be in place.
sturgeon interesting, scotland and london teaming up?
That's going to need a long tunnel.
I wonder how many people that could vote but didn't bother are now wishing they'd dragged themselves away from the telly and voted?
Chances are in five and ten years time, the man in the street won't notice any difference.
So what was the point? And why did we bother consulting the man on the street at all if it has no effect on them?
Personally I don't think that is true at all. Sure, the sun will still rise and set, rain will still be wet, but things will be different one way or another.
Woppit ...
If I was being all blind patriotism I wouldn't have post the whole quote now would I.
As ever, look a bit deeper.... or simply read the last line
On this subject we in agreement, don't go spoiling it my friend.
I wonder how many people that could vote but didn't bother are now wishing they'd dragged themselves away from the telly and voted?
I reckon that if those who were more worried about watching TV than voting had done the latter then the Leave vote may have been stronger...
That's going to need a long tunnel.
London - Edinburgh hyperloop, it would be a small price to pay.
Probably right.
London - Edinburgh hyperloop, it would be a small price to pay.
Easy to fund too, now we have a spare £360m a week to spend.
And London is the largest Scots city in the UK...
IGM - Sturgeon can talk all she likes but nothing can take effect until the UK as a whole has left the EU. At which point all those talks will be likely null and void as a newly independent Scotland would be applying to join as a new applicant and would have to jump through the hoops of any other new applicant country.
Do you think the EU would stick to any 'agreements' made by Sturgeon when she was not in a position to make them, or roll Scotland over a barrel when she is in even less of a position to negotiate?
Also, how do you think Spain (with its ability to veto new member countries) would view admitting a newly independent country, given their own independence issues?
Deals can be done in strange places. And she'd be daft to not have talked to them before a vote to "take back control" from Westminster.
I agree the deal would have no standing, but there is a huge difference with regard to the Spanish question - this would be about a nation trying to stay in the club while the remnants of the country that nation was once part of left. Nothing like the Spanish issue until Spain decides to leave - at which point their veto is somewhat moot.
For the record I personally don't favour a Scots exit, nor did I favour Britain quitting Europe - but things happen.
Will you be reccommending re-equipping the RAF with Spitfires next?
well they would be here before tranche 3 and the F35 so maybe not a bad call
Letter of no confidence has just been delivered to Jeremy Jeremy from his opponents in the PLP..
Given how landslidey his victory was, is this further proof of MPs being slightly removed from the will of the people?
Merkel's response vs Junker's shows the difference between a politician who needs to be elected and one who doesn't.
...but there is a huge difference with regard to the Spanish question - this would be about a nation trying to stay in the club while the remainints of the country that nation was once part of left. Nothing like the Spanish issue until Spain decides to leave - at which point their veto is somewhat moot.
I completely disagree that there is a huge difference.
- Sturgeon has zero powers to negotiate for Scotland with the EU, you've already acknowledged this. Yes she can chat all she likes, but until Scotland gets it's independence from the rest of the UK it is, in effect, not much different from representatives of Catalonians or Basques 'chatting' to the EU.
- Given the timescale it took for Scotland to get its last independence vote do you think a new one will come before or after Brexit?
- Given an independent Scotland is really unlikely to happen until well after Brexit, Scotland wouldn't be negotiating to remain in the EU, they'd be applying to join (with the aforementioned hoops to jump through).
- Enter Spain's veto...
So Project Hate won narrowly over Project Fear. Well, good luck to us all. We are going to need it
I am just glad that I have no children who would have had their long term futures betrayed by a such a small majority of their elders
But I'll have to live with it, as will everyone and try and minimise the damage.
I think many who voted to leave yesterday will be surprised by how long it will take to see any change in immigration numbers and how quickly their pockets will be hit.
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Order now to avoid import duty
A pyrrhic victory.
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Racist liar.
Sootyandjim - I think I agree with all your points, but the conclusion I'd come to is that she would be daft not to be getting in touch with folks in the EU now. As you point out, later would be too late.
She's been on the phone to Sadiq already we hear - I doubt that was just talking about the weather. She's looking for deals.
Live scenes from the channel tunnel :
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Ro5ey - Member
Woppit ...
If I was being all blind patriotism I wouldn't have post the whole quote now would I.
As ever, look a bit deeper.... or simply read the last line
On this subject we in agreement, don't go spoiling it my friend.
Oh, that's very good. Well done.
Won't you lot stop posting? Has taken me hours to catch up since last night!
Which was the first point I'd posted on this thread - partly because I've tended to avoid politics threads on here recently, partly because until very recently I didn't have an answer to the thread title. A few things have come up in the last 10 pages, let's start with this one:
I agree with ernie that the insults being thrown towards the Leave side (which I note still continue on this page) were very unhelpful. Calling somebody names isn't the way to convince them they're wrong. Because a lot of people on the Leave side weren't racists or thick - some like ernie had a valid reason for voting that way, some were just misinformed. Personally I was strongly attracted towards Leave - as a point of principle I dislike a lot about the EU and a year or so ago I'd have expected to vote Leave, it's only on looking at the reality of the outcomes when I became strongly for Remain (to the point I'm also feeling genuinely upset this morning). I can accept and understand that lots of intelligent people who like me have no problem with immigration have been swayed by the propaganda and didn't realise the full implications - I know a few people like that. A lot of intelligent people also didn't believe what they were told about the downsides of a Leave vote - partly because they've been lied to by the same people before, partly because they were just ignoring it and hoping for the best.
So please don't label them all as racists or ignorant - a lot of Leave voters are neither, and you're just showing your own prejudices by doing so.
They obviously didn't employ enough MI5 staff, or deploy enough rubbers...
sootyandjim - Member
It's not hard, as the most astute leader in the soon-to-be-ex UK,she is looking after her own. I realise that there is a bit of "Et tu Brutus?" over the timing 😈 But any speculation by the Southern neebs on what will pan out WHEN Scotland leaves is just that; speculation, the messages coming from the EU this morning suggest that they want shot of you/us ASAP.
Loving the where to live in Scotland thread as well!
[quote=BaronVonP7 ]From Beeb:
Meanwhile, German MEP Manfred Weber, from the party of Chancellor Angela Merkel, insisted on a tough line for the UK: "There cannot be any special treatment for the United Kingdom. Leave means leave. The times of cherry-picking are over."
Sounds like one of the er, bigger players, might not be entirely amenable to greasing our golden exit. Who'd have thought, the rotters.
Except Manfred Weber isn't exactly a big player - he has just about as much power as Nigel Farage - and I doubt he was speaking for Angela. Who will no doubt be significantly more pragmatic about things given the potential impact on the German economy on trade barriers. I've seen her mentioned recently - has she herself commented?
and still angry here
NSFW link
[url=
I think of those that voted out[/url]
^ i want that as a pillowcase
[quote=duckman ]It's not hard, as the most astute leader in the soon-to-be-ex UK,she is looking after her own. I realise that there is a bit of "Et tu Brutus?" over the timing But any speculation by the Southern neebs on what will pan out WHEN Scotland leaves is just that; speculation
As is any speculation by Scotland on when they will leave. Some people are simply pointing out the reality that whilst she might talk to the EU, nothing she agrees before Scotland is an independent state is in any way binding. What's more it seems to have been glossed over that whilst there might be will in Scotland for another referendum that isn't something they have control over - it is in the hands of Westminster, and I can't see them being in any hurry to give Scotland another vote, not at least until well after any exit from the EU is complete. Unless of course there is a UDI, but I'm fairly sure that had been ruled out, and would in any case be tricky under international law (and make it even more difficult for Scotland to join the EU).
You do realise that the only reason you got the last referendum wasn't because the SNP wanted it, but because Cameron was confident it would give the right result (he was at least just about right about that, though it seems he didn't learn his lesson - I suppose at least he is now avoiding going down in history as presiding over the break up of the Union though).
^ i want that as a pillowcase
They do it as soap not sure what else
http://shop.mona.net.au/auxiliary/auxlisting.aspx?k=66
the messages coming from the EU this morning suggest that they want shot of you/us ASAP.
they want to stop the contagen, others are likely to follow they want to be seen to be trying to "punish" us too cow others on the way to a referendum
Can I now buy a more powerful hoover?
has she herself commented?
Very conciliatory, recognizes significant dissatisfaction with EU throughout Europe, meeting with others heads of Government to discuss. There will be a lot of noise from the European die hards because they recognize there is now a real risk to the project.
Can I now buy a more powerful hoover?
Yes but it wont work that well and it will cost you more to run, got to love the idiot politics. #FREEDOM
Probably using foreign rubbers. What we need is a tariff on rubbers - make Britain's erasing industry great again.They obviously didn't employ enough MI5 staff, or deploy enough rubbers
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Should have been the 'Leave' campaign badge - I mean it's got a laverly old union jack in it....... what? It contains the truth........in that case not.
Oh my fellow citizens, what HAVE you done?
As I was born when the UK was in Europe can I retain EU citizenship? (rhetorical questions as I know it's not going to happen 🙁 )
[quote=mefty ]has she herself commented?
Very conciliatory, recognizes significant dissatisfaction with EU throughout Europe, meeting with others heads of Government to discuss. There will be a lot of noise from the European die hards because they recognize there is now a real risk to the project.
That's interesting and encouraging.
You'd expect hardline statements from Juncker et al - for them the European project is the most important thing and stuff the countries and the ordinary people who might suffer. The reality thankfully is that whilst they might like to think they wield the power, effectively it's Germany and Merkel who do, as they're the ones bankrolling the scheme.
Hopefully some sense will prevail on all sides.
So Farage has admitted the 350m figure for the NHS was a'mistake'Oh I don't know. Using blatant lies and scaremongering got him exactly what he wanted.
Quick point of order - Farage, is a liar, he is a bigot, a xenophobe and a racist and many more terrible things - he has played on the fears of people and given them a 'justifiable' enemy to blame all his followers misfortune on. He is, as they say in the trade a "****".
What he is not though, it a Member of Parliament, Nor is he, or was he ever a member of the Official Leave campaign who that bus belongs too - those words on the NHS are from Boris and his team - it's Boris, the soon to be PM of this wounded, dirtied isle that said that and it is up to him to make those lies true, but he can't - there was never £350m in the first place, most of that £350m came straight back to us in the form of the new Swansea Bay Development (who voted out) and BPW situated in Merthyr (who voted out) and a million other projects that weren’t based London (who voted In).
We should be shouting at Boris to make it happen, and ignoring Farage - there are many reasons why we're in this mess today, but it's partly because the media keep pushing him into our living rooms because he's interesting - we created this from the roots of a little fringe party that everyone thought was funny because Robert Kilroy Smith seemed to be having his meltdown in it.
Hopefully some sense will prevail on all sides.
Given the start that is a little optimistic, given the expectations leave has created it's very optimistic.
The Remain campaign was woeful. They could have done lots of positive things but chose to go with fear.
Why did they not have a campaign where every person who had a conviction to remain would try their best to persuade a leaver to change their mind and support them with positive reasons?
The amount of smug remainers who chose to insult and belittle leavers rather than engage with them and was massive.
In retrospect I wish I had done more to try to sway people. I never sank to the levels that seem to be prevalent on here.
