[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

free to take the very best people no matter where in the wod they come from

we were always free to do that, its just theres more red tape and costs getting them visas than via the EU

Why do people do this, the UK is one of the best places in the world or do you disagree?

Because it doesn't come free. Only ultra nationalists and fascists believes we are somehow "magically" better than everyone else.

It's good because can afford it to be.

Again. Take out London, take out brent crude (maybe from, oh, let's say 1979) and remove the "wealth" from the rest of the country and replace it with "earning".

You think it would be "a great place" then eh? What did London vote for: to stay.

Free from uneccessary regulations, able to manage our economy based on our priorities, able to focus more closely on global business links free from the shackles and vested interests of the EU, free to take the very best people no matter where in the wod they come from

Time to live the dream. Happy Days.....

(what's a wod BTW? 🙂 )

Nicola Sturgeon has nailed her colours to the mast. Shame, but in all honesty I like many other's will happily wave Scotland goodbye. So they get the vote on in/out, don't like the result and then go for independence.

Will Scotland ask again for Independence?

Take out London, take out brent crude (maybe from, oh, let's say 1979) and remove the "wealth" from the rest of the country and replace it with "earning".

Yes but we're not doing that are we so why put it up, hypothetical nonsense. The UK is what it is, not what it might be.

Why would she not call for independence now?

(apart from the obvious economic reasons but as we have just seen, they don't count)

Just listened to her live interview and she has stated her intention for a 2nd referendum.

hypothetical nonsense

Ok. I'll look at how much it's cost us [b]today[/b]. How hypothetical is that?

Of course....why would she say anything else?

Feel sorry for the Scots now, didn't post indyref. Aren't they totally hamstrung now because they are in limbo between secessionist England, upon who they are totally reliant economically, and an EU they couldn't meet the joining conditions of?

Will Scotland ask again for Independence?

I wonder how long Northern Ireland will take to announce a referendum on independence, weeks, months?

jambalaya
Free from uneccessary regulations, able to manage our economy based on our priorities, able to focus more closely on global business links free from the shackles and vested interests of the EU, free to take the very best people no matter where in the world they come from

Thing is, The UK hasn't been a significant global power for probably 40 years. Back when we had an empire, yes, we could call the shots on the rest of the world, in 2016, nope, we are just a small island sitting in a cold wet sea away from the rest of the world, with a service industry based economy.

You response is basically like answering the question "How do i climb Everest", with the answer "put one foot infront of the other till you're at the top" ie whilst maybe true, it's not actually an answer with which you can do anything!

The SIMPLE, immutable fact is that we are a net importer. If it becomes more expensive to carry out business in the UK, as compared to the EU, then our exports will fall even further.

So, ignoring any social issues, how does leaving the EU make us a more suitable business location that when we were in it??

Amazing how the world turns so fast

Not so long ago

Scottish indy hopes lay in tatters
CMD had pulled off an unlikely result/victory for the Tories

and today....

Scotland will vote out of the U.K. They deserved a 2nd referendum as it was also based on the U.K. staying in the E.U.

The majority of Scottish voters wanted to stay in Europe.

The Scots are not represented in the U.K.

Imagine a border between England and Scotland.

teamhurtmore - Member
Why would she not call for independence now?

she basically just did. Canny do it without a ref though, and canny call a ref without westminster consent(well not without years worth of court actions).

She's just put out the opening punches.

Scotland will vote out of the U.K.

From Beeb:

Meanwhile, German MEP Manfred Weber, from the party of Chancellor Angela Merkel, insisted on a tough line for the UK: "There cannot be any special treatment for the United Kingdom. Leave means leave. The times of cherry-picking are over."

Sounds like one of the er, bigger players, might not be [i]entirely [/i]amenable to greasing our golden exit. Who'd have thought, the rotters.

a) FPTP
b) tribalist voting

HTH

Not really. It doesn't explain why UKIP have only one MP. The real reason is that not enough people want to vote for UKIP.

That's the reality, although I know it doesn't fit into the STW "Britain is racist" narrative.

One of the big blunders the Remain camp made was to call people racist. Generally people don't like to be called racist, specially when they know that they're not.

And then you get the situation "Why should I believe you? You say I'm racist and I know I'm not. I don't really believe anything you say".

Bojo is no longer popular in London then, especially amongst us democracy hating leftists

and the cyclists dont like him either

https://twitter.com/asianyardie/status/746262480649854976/video/1

I am surprised by the SNP, I thought that they would allow a couple of years at least post brexit until things got really bad and Boris was being Boris and giving his pound in London/pound in Strathclyde speech. Then there would be a much stronger chance of a yes vote.

I'm waiting for the Clinton-Trump result, then possibly looking at emigrating some place.

A few of us in the office are thinking the same, but as a Scot living in England, with an English wife and English born children, I'm dreading the break up of the U.K. and just want to be well away from it if/when it happens.

Sturgeon is talking about another referendum.

Then there would be a much stronger chance of a yes vote.

Do you not think they could win one now?

There will be an awful lot of address drop down lists that need amending for country, most of them list United Kingdom only.

[img] [/img]

without clear information without rhetoric, people make bad decisions.

I suspect Sturgeon will be trying to do a deal with Europe today that might be enacted after a second referendum.

Effectively get s deal for Scotland to remain, before they've left.

She might not succeed, but why not try?

The country's decided, and while I think we have made a big mistake we have to move on now. I don't know how - I haven't seen a coherent strategy from the Leave campaign about how they plan to renegotiate our deals; much less have they been forthcoming with any information about what they want those deals to include. It was that as much as anything that made me a Remainian.

One thing slightly bothers me - and i know this is democracy and how it works; I know many many others will argue it has always been this way and even worse in a GE due to FPTP; I know it was a very high turnout, and i know it has almost no relevance now.

But (round numbers) 17.4M people voted Leave, 16.1M voted Remain, and about 13M didn't vote at all (based on a 72% turnout). Only 37% actively voted to change the status quo massively, and i wonder how many of the 13M no-voters (which also include the spoil their paper to make a point voters) did it thinking mistakenly that Remain would win anyway. And i wonder what they feel like this morning. I hope they feel as sick as i do.

If we ever vote on something this large again, I do think we need a >50% of [u]eligible[/u] voters to change the status quo.

Well that's all escalated a bit quickly eh Dave?..

Do the sums add up without oil?

I recon they are on the way oot, regardless. Less about budgets and more about nutters in Westminsters...

What's next? NI Republican parties going for likewise and the dissident armed groups thinking it's a good time to start/ramp up action?

I prefer boring times.

she basically just did.

I know

Thing is, The UK hasn't been a significant global power for probably 40 years. Back when we had an empire, yes, we could call the shots on the rest of the world, in 2016, nope, we are just a small island sitting in a cold wet sea away from the rest of the world, with a service industry based economy.

Yes this is completely accurate - It is bollocks.

Comparing the FTSE 100 & 250 is interesting.

Do the markets think this will hit smaller companies harder, or is it just volatility? 250 is consistently further down today.

First time on this thread. I am sure this has already been said by much more learned and committed folk:
Our vote to leave the EU will offer plenty of opportunities but there will be some turbulence for the foreseeable future. I cannot believe choosing isolation will help prosperity. A good economy needs fluid immigration to support demand. The majority voted to draw up the fences, led by campaigners who are at heart libertarian capitalists. These will get in the cheap labour one way (wage cuts) or another (immigrant key workers, where they get to decide).

Labour failed to convince their defectors to UKIP of this message at the last election and the referendum came too soon for it to stick, 2017 would have been too soon as well.

I can't leave this country, stuck with it but it has gone in a direction I am unhappy with, however:
We must dig in and get through to tea. And we must play on.

Footflaps, I don't.

Do the sums add up without oil?

Probably better than before as previously they were competing against a financially stronger English speaking competitor within the EU. Now they'd be the English speaking point of access into the EU. I'd expect a fairly significant shift in headquarters to Glasgow and Edinburgh and potentially a gain in manufacturing too.

Chances are in five and ten years time, the man in the street won't notice any difference. Possibly this will be the start of something better, including our relationship with existing EU countries, as the EU staggers and falls.

Just need to get on with it now! 🙂

I also wonder about that last minute statement by Juncker, I bet that turned a lot of votes.

Basically it was the EUs fault that it let the people of member state get to the state of disatisfaction that it had.

If we don't have the same political aspirations as the EU we should be out. Most remainers were remain because of the impending turmoil, not because of any principals.

And, on further inspection, those principals of social fairness, etc, that I thought might be there, aren't. The EU is just for an expansion of capitalism/globalisation and exploitation of the working classes.

I suspect Sturgeon will be trying to do a deal with Europe today...

She has no legal right to negotiate with the EU for Scotland until they become a separate country, which would likely not be until after the UK as a whole has left the EU.

As is, Scotland is part of the UK and it is the UK government that negotiates with the EU.

SNP will still have to square the 'which currency do we use' question which is now black and white, yet they even last week wanted grey i.e. Stirling and EU membership.

Letter of no confidence has just been delivered to Jeremy Jeremy from his opponents in the PLP...

Shakespeare nails it again ... even if he did write this in the 1590s about something that happened 200 years before that.... 😯

Richard 2 Act 2 scene 1

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house
Against the envy of less happier lands;
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
this nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
Feared be their breed and famous by their birth,
Renowned for their deeds as far from home
For Christian service and true chivalry
As is the sepulchre, in stubborn Jewry,
Of the world’s ransom, blessed Mary’s son;
This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
Dear for her reputation through the world,
Is now leased out – I die pronouncing it –
Like to a tenement or a pelting farm.
England, bound in with the triumphant sea,
Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds.
That England that was wont to conquer others
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.

Do the markets think this will hit smaller companies harder,

It's going to hit the small company i work for very hard, (cocoa bean co in dumfries&galloway) as we buy all our our chocolate from Belgium, the cocoa prices have been rising for a while now and i imagine this will only increase the financial strain on the business.

Sootyandjim - agreed she has no legal right. But that doesn't stop her talking to anyone she likes.

If we don't have the same political aspirations as the EU we should be out. Most remainers were remain because of the impending turmoil, not because of any principals.

You said that with a straight face?

SNP will still have to square the 'which currency do we use' question which is now black and white, yet they even last week wanted grey i.e. [b]Stir[/b]ling and EU membership.

Why not Perth or Edinburgh 🙂

FTSE 100 v 250 - more likely levels of liquidity IMO