Forum menu
You listed some labels that could be applied to some of these people… that doesn’t really help me understand them… except for those who think they can make gains off the back of the damage… those excited with nothing really to gain… they just look hollow to me.
Anyone missing Theresa yet?
Re Shetland, every seat in Scotland is in play for the SNP, 2015 proved that. I don't think they'll win it, not this time anyway but they'll fight it. (because, frankly, they've spent the last 20 years battling in seats they'll never win, then winning them)
"Anyone else curiously excited by all this?"
Aye, but then crashing my car was exciting.
With Davidson quitting, SNP are going to win lots more seats.
Re Shetland, every seat in Scotland is in play for the SNP, 2015 proved that.
That SNP surge was off the back of the lib dem tory coalition though..
Tories always get a tiny vote share there..
If you look at the history, apart from that one time, it's very much a Liberal democrat area.
That SNP surge was off the back of the lib dem tory coalition though..
Not so sure about that Mattyfez. I think it was because the unionist vote split and the independentist vote didn't.
Three ways this could all turn out ok(ish):
1. Donald Tusk and his mates think that Boris is indeed mental enough to go ahead with no deal, and decide to capitulate on the WA in some way. Utterly unlikely to happen, they seem to have stronger principles than we do.
2. On October 29th, Boris addresses parliament, points out that whatever deal is now on the table is absolutely unarguably the best deal there will ever be, having pushed everything to the furthest brink imaginable, and then puts some options to parliament, possibly including no deal, the existing WA, withdrawing A50 or a binding public referendum. Ideally, he points out just what a nutjob you would actually need to be to want no deal, which coming from him might calm the riots a little. He then calls Farage a silly clot, and then implements the choice of parliament.
3. Someone, somewhere, negotiates an option to rejoin the EU at a later date. We have a few years of apocalypse, then come crawling back and serve as the warning to other members whose right-wing elements get twitchy.
Donald Tusk and his mates ... decide to capitulate on the WA in some way.
They've agreed to everything we've put in front of them so far, it's our lot that can't agree with itself. I'm not sure what capacity there is for capitulation there.
What a day!
Nothing says "take back our democracy" like shutting down an elected parliament, by an unelected leadership.
Bloddy hell.. I have an Irish grandparent, so I'm seriously looking at getting a proper passport, it's not a cheap procedure though, and I can lll afford it, but I'm viewing it as an investment.
I’m one generation too late to get my Irish passport. I’d wanted my kids to have them too. My mum and dad have got theirs, so they don’t have to endure whatever shit a blue passport will now bring at customs
Has the Queen sign the death warrant for royalty?
We need to get rid of this whole obnoxious structure of privilege from the Queen to the House of Lords.
And imprison any politician who takes money from a foreign country or source.
it's hardly the queen or the HOL that appear to be the problem right now, is it?
Even after the last farcical three years, today feels like a line has been crossed. Well and truly.
I think what’s about to come will now be very very different from what’s gone before.
Unfortunately, the change of mood means it’s got the potential to get a lot more violent. And not just in Ireland.
I know the term ‘Poundland Trump’ has been derided, but I think it’s pretty accurate. Everything he’s doing is straight out of the Bannon playbook
We now seem to have a Prime Minister who is acting like a dictator, is clearly unencumbered by any morals or principles, is happy to pander to far right extremists and seems to revel in sowing division
I’ve not felt this much anger since the height of Thatcherism. And I know i’m Not alone in that. This is not going to end well
Del
it’s hardly the queen or the HOL that appear to be the problem right now, is it?
All part of the democratic deficit in this country.
But the main problem is politicians bribed to act against the interests of this country.
The UK has been sold out by a 'parcel of rogues'.
Most Scots will recognise the irony in that.
To echo something said above, I've not felt this angry and helpless since I was a kid in the 80s.
Whatever happens next (barring some bizarre and frankly unlikely legislative rescue) we're fubared.
Prorogue stands and we crash out. Fubared. Economy knackered. Civil unrest. Return of The Troubles. Totally divided nation. End of the Union.
Really feels like today is a turning point in our politics and history.
Really feels like those who have suggested that true democracy was a 20th Century blip and we're now resetting to a more dictatorial, extremist norm night be right...
Dad is a Scot, hoping that's my way out (or my way in I guess) in a couple of years, but not sure where my wife stands in that event?
Sadly, I suspect as a nation we're too apathetic to do anything about it. We should be on the streets right now?
We aren't there yet.
And let's not forget that the anger is on both sides. That's the real horror.
Leavers that see any attempt to block Boris and No Deal as virtual treason. Remainers that see today as the death of even a remote dream of ending Brexit.
I still don't think there will be real civil unrest till tangible effects are felt though.
Medicines running out.
Food.
Fuel.
Any two of the above happen in November all bets are off and it will get violent.
You know a remainer in your road? A Leaver? Need to exact some vengeance merited or not?
Of course the ones that genuinely merit "vengeance" will be insulated by money and power. Not to mention,oh the irony, distance. Ferreted away to foreign lands.
EDIT: Those that remember the 80's certainly remember the miners strike. This government is far more malignant than Thatcher's. It won't be cops putting down strikes, it will the army putting down city wide unrest. Initially in London then beyond.
Anyone thinking this government will flinch from ordering live fire to be used let only look back at the Troubles.... There lies yet another flashpoint.
Holy shit. It's frightening and I hope to God I'm wrong.
I can't help wondering if November 5th will have special significance this year? Probably be around the right timescale for any shortages to be noticed
If anyone’s wondering when the civil unrest and violence might start, the Tory Party conference in a couple of weeks is in...
Manchester
Specifically, GMEX, the site of Peterloo
Specifically, GMEX, the site of Peterloo
Well now we know where all that much advertised spending on the police is going to be going.
odds on the withdrawal agreement reappearing in the last week before 31st october. Giving MPs the choice of no deal or May's agreement and no time for anything else?
Giving MPs the choice of no deal or May’s agreement and no time for anything else?
I am not sure. Remember most of Johnsons backers want a hard brexit since thats where the profit will really be made.
Assuming BoJo and his cronies manage to shutdown/filibuster any anti-no-deal-Brexit legislation in the time available, which would presumably trigger a VONC, I wonder if there's an option for the EU to announce something like a cooling off period where post-October 31st we could rejoin immediately on a temporary basis until a 2nd referendum was held following a GE?
I guess I'm clutching at straws but I'd love to see the EU out-manoeuvre BoJo and the current government's legacy being a couple of weeks of Brexit chaos followed by the Tories being unelectable for a generation.
With Davidson quitting, SNP are going to win lots more seats.
The SNP were going to take back most of those Tory seats anyway. Davidson had pitched herself firmly on a bit of political ground, unionist, centerist, control of the fishing and Johnson has just swept that from under her.
I doubt the snp will take Shetland
I've never been so angry at politics. Today I'm joining the SNP and will do whatever I can to help Scotland break away from those arseholes in Westminster.
I guess I’m clutching at straws but I’d love to see the EU out-manoeuvre BoJo and the current government’s legacy being a couple of weeks of Brexit chaos followed by the Tories being unelectable for a generation.
That assumes they want to go to the effort to try to keep us. I wouldn’t, would you? All through this I have only really been vexed on one issue. Would I prefer the EU to demean itself to ‘help’ us or do I want the EU to stand firm (rightly), so this nonsense is exposed for what it is.
The EU’s stance with ‘our’ ‘government’ all along has been that the real answers and solutions have to come from the country that is causing those issues.
Much as I would love to see Boris get his comeuppance, it won’t come from the EU. In keeping, it is going to be up to us to get rid of this bunch of crooks. I wouldn’t necessarily rule out methods other than the ballot box.
I am not sure. Remember most of Johnsons backers want a hard brexit since thats where the profit will really be made.
and once out what is to stop the extremists ripping up the agreement.
and once out what is to stop the extremists ripping up the agreement.
That was always the major flaw of the agreement anyway. In this case though, why would they bother pretending?
That was always the major flaw of the agreement anyway. In this case though, why would they bother pretending?
Because MPs are gullible enough to believe that the executive wouldn't do it. Didn't Mogg go for the deal last time?
Didn’t Mogg go for the deal last time?
I thought Johnson voted for it too?
Tbh I don't think this changes much, no deal still happen, all thats happened is that remained MPs have less parliamentary time to argue over what to do next.
What it does do is make the referendum look even more illegitimate, the likes of Cummings admitting lying helping them win, the dodgy payments, pretending no deal was the plan all along-when really they sold it as the easiest deal in history.... it gives the remoaners ammo to keep attacking Brexit
If Johnson forces it through this way, it will just fuel that discontent more, and far from moving on from brexit, we'll be even more divided than ever.
It's also seriously damaged him in Scotland with the loss of Davidson & alienating more moderate Tories
Brexit & it's creators are toxic to the country
so this nonsense is exposed for what it is.
Sadly I think this is wishful thinking. We live in a society that can be manipulated by some Facebook ads and lies painted on the side of buses. BoJo & cronies are spending far more time laying the groundwork for blaming no deal on the EU than actually trying to work out a deal - the thing that angers me is chances are they're going to be successful in blaming this shit show on the EU.
If our economy really does tank post-no-deal-Brexit and the Brexit supporters lose their jobs etc. they'll easily be 'persuaded' that the EU is where they should be directing their anger and not at BoJo.
Maybe I'm wrong and this will all end up with BoJo having to seek asylum in the US, Trump agreeing and then both of them fleeing to NK once Trump is ousted there.
Dad is a Scot, hoping that’s my way out (or my way in I guess) in a couple of years
I'll be honest, this viewpoint is beginning to piss me off. If you see the good ship Scotland as some sort of life raft to escape the horrors of what's happening on this sinking island then you should be in it, helping to row away from the shore, not running after it once it has sailed, waving your hands in despair. It'll never be easier to relocate than it is now.
scotroute>
I’ll be honest, this viewpoint is beginning to piss me off. If you see the good ship Scotland as some sort of life raft to escape the horrors of what’s happening on this sinking island then you should be in it, helping to row away from the shore, not running after it once it has sailed, waving your hands in despair. It’ll never be easier to relocate than it is now.
I totally get that, and would love to but the practicalities aren't always that straightforward. If I could have dual citizenship (or even sole Scottish citizenship) regardless of Brexit I would anyway for personal reasons.
TBH, it's clutching at straws time.
I suspect we'll see aspects of the Civil Contingencies Act that were much mooted when it was enacted invoked by the Home Sec to quell widespread unrest if it begins. Anger doesn't begin to describe how I feel about the whole mess. It should never have come to this.
TBH, it’s clutching at straws time.
Forgot to add, it would also be another way of openly expressing my feelings about the EU and my place in it. Quite a good symbol of opposition to the current situation.
Boris may well get to use his water cannons after all
I’d love to see the EU out-manoeuvre BoJo and the current government’s legacy being a couple of weeks of Brexit chaos followed by the Tories being unelectable for a generation.
There's nothing for the EU to out-manoeuvre He's gone through the motions, pretended to discuss things with Merkel and Macron, but is anyone seriously negotiating with the EU or proposing backstop alternatives on our behalf?
So now we're pretty much locked on course. Once MPs sit again they'll have two weeks, during which I'm sure BoJo, Moggy and their cohorts will do their best to stuff the agenda with fluff and slow any debates or votes on legislation against no-deal Brexit.
The only ones being out-manoeuvred are the British people by an aligned and organised Alt-right/Far-right, disaster capitalist coalition that have already seized power and once the formality of Brexit is out of the way we'll get to see how they carve the UK up...
What it does do is make the referendum look even more illegitimate, the likes of Cummings admitting lying helping them win, the dodgy payments, pretending no deal was the plan all along-when really they sold it as the easiest deal in history…. it gives the remoaners ammo to keep attacking Brexit
Unfortunately after Halloween that's all we'll be "Remoaners" regardless of how much "ammo" they give us the thing we most feared (not just Brexit but a No-deal Brexit) will have happened. continued complaint will be fruitless at that point.
I think the whole thing is over, sewn up with no more deals to be done and very little point in BoJo and Co. bothering to tell many more lies. the bastards have basically won...
Boris may well get to use his water cannons after all
They got sold at a massive loss to the taxpayer. I believe they have already been scrapped. If not I guess he could go to the tories magic money forest and buy them back at a nice markup.
I think the whole thing is over, sewn up with no more deals to be done and very little point in BoJo and Co. bothering to tell many more lies. the bastards have basically won…
Someone gets it. Trump is rubbing his little hands together so fast that we’ll soon be covered in his glee.
We live in a1930s German society that can be manipulated bysome Facebook adsradio and TV and lies painted onthe side of busesnewspaper.BoJoAdolph & cronies are spending far more time laying the groundwork for blamingno dealeverything on theEUforeigners than actually trying towork out a dealfix anything
I assume we've already mentioned Hitler and all that stuff.
little point in BoJo and Co. bothering to tell many more lies
The lies will increase not decrease… there is a post Brexit election to win… and (re)uniting the Conservative and Brexit Party votes can only be achieved by doubling down.
I know that Rees Mogg lives in an alternative universe, in some stationary orbit around the planet 1873, but he's surpassed himself with the utter claptrap he's been spouting this morning.
Apparently a no deal Brexit will massively strengthen the union
Yes, of course it will, you haunted ****ing pencil. The Irish and Scottish will be massively more predisposed towards Westminster once the government has driven their respective economies off a cliff.
The terrifying thing is, these lunatics aren't just trolling us all, you can see that they actually believe this shite. They really are that detached from reality